Interesting tidbit about Lawson and Fangio's view of 3-4 OLB's
by BustaTheRippa on Feb 23, 2011 6:06 PM PST
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Fangio believes in a 3-4 defense, with outside linebackers as primary pass rushers and frequent blitzes. He has apparently not been impressed by the play of Manny Lawson, now a free agent, so it’s unlikely the 49ers will try to persuade Lawson to return.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sports/nfl/2011/02/49ers-getting-track-lockout-looms#ixzz1Eq04k6Hk
It seems like Fangio gets it... The primary and most important attribute of a 3-4 OLB is the ability to rush the passer. Manny Lawson is a good player; however he is horribly miscast in a 3-4 scheme. He excels at coverage and maintaining the edge...Which would make him a near pro bowl level linebacker in a 4-3 Tampa 2 style scheme...But it would NOT be smart business to break the bank on Lawson to keep him here if a CBA is resolved. I'm guessing the Niners will be looking at Ahmad Brooks to start at one of the OLB spots and look for another starter via the draft or free agency. Tamba Hali might be a guy to look at in free agency, and the draft has all sorts of rushers like Robert quinn, Aldon Smith, Von Miller, and many more.
I have an early feeling that Fangio will be 10 times the coordinator Manusky was...
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Hali is the best for this as he could play a hybrid role, which I worry about for Von Miller. I agree about Lawson being a good player, but not in his scheme. I don’t think we have the ideal OLB on the roster. But not a true weakness
by mcwagner on Feb 23, 2011 6:19 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Not that I wouldn't want him
Just moved from unlikely to never going to happen with KC tagging him
by lacrosse_cat on Feb 23, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
then the quick fix is gone
Losing Lawson hurts, but its not devastating. LaBoy and Brooks need to live with the DBs and correct their coverage skills. I’m losing faith in Parys. He seems like a very good backup to me. We need to scout for LaBoy’s replacement and hope Brooks is an answer.
by mcwagner on Feb 23, 2011 7:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
This makes it even more likely that we take Von Miller or Quinn.
by BustaTheRippa on Feb 23, 2011 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
lol
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 23, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
This doesn't make sense ...
I have an early feeling that Fangio will be 10 times the coordinator Manusky was…
How is Lawson a reflection of Manusky?
Manusky is a big fan of dropping his backers into zone and playing pussyball. Fangio wants guys who are going to get to the quarterback.
Manusky: a fan of a player like Lawson for what he wants to do
Fangio: Not a fan, wants rush ability.
by BustaTheRippa on Feb 23, 2011 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
It’s sorta forgetting how Manusky rotated Lawson on the field for running downs and took him out for Brooks, Laboy etc on obvious passing downs.
Which tells me that Fangio is going to want to bring pressure at all times, not just obvious passing downs. He’s going to want to apply heat on 1st downs and 2nd downs whereas Manusky was as vanilla as it gets. He has no use for a player like Lawson, and identifying that is good news to my ears.
by BustaTheRippa on Feb 23, 2011 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
lawson was pretty good at what he was supposed to do
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 23, 2011 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
I this Fangio fellow!
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect ___?__ to be super so soon. Alex Smith is no longer expected to do much for this team in the future... on to the next one!!
I like* this Fangio fellow!
LOL
Joe and Steve were under the same system for years... don't expect ___?__ to be super so soon. Alex Smith is no longer expected to do much for this team in the future... on to the next one!!
does this mean that it is von miller over patrick petersom?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
Please send Mays on blitzes
It’s the only thing I ask for
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
by manraj7 on Feb 23, 2011 9:56 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Fangio is going to run a really similar defense to Capers over in GB
Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing -- the result. -Lombardi
So where is it that Fangio say's he's not impressed with Lawson , the writer imply's this ...
… but i see no where he states this …!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
The writer wasn't impressed with Lawson,
And by extension, since Fangio hasn’t held a national primetime press conference singing Lawson’s praises… he must be unimpressed as well.
Typical sportswriter bullshit.
Yup , and then there's the trickle down effect , which turn's into a hodge podge of speculation ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Please, everyone, re-watch any 49er defensive footage and please tell me that our olbs were mirror images and only rushing outside. The scheme here gave Lawson very minimal options at success. To add, in this hybrid 3-4 Fangio runs Lawson would be a cog that can be played at any lb slot. He bites up the middle well, covers well and has shown a nack for forcing fumbles. Not keeping Lawson is a mistake. We need a better pass rusher opposite Lawson so Lawson can be more of a contributor in the sack department. His other abilities are far better than average.
RLOTT#42
by rlott#42 on Feb 24, 2011 8:51 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
The best thing we can do RE: Lawson and Pressure
We already took care of.
Sorry San Diego, your awesome defense is about to get Manureskied.
i totally agree
he’s very versatile and athletic, and his big arms never look out of control—-they are looking to strip the ball.
"Winners, I am convinced, imagine their dreams first. They want it with all their heart and expect it to come true. There is, I believe, no other way to live."
- Joe Montana
by brooklyn49er on Feb 24, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
So you're saying you agree with..
what (I think) I heard Fangio say when he said he runs a 3-4-3. A big time mix of 3-4 and 4-3. I don’t think the Steelers have been playing that much (though) I could be wrong, but the Pats have been switching it up a good deal these last two years.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 24, 2011 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
i agree
But not at an exorbitant price. He’s a great coverage guy and his pass rushing improved this year thanks to the extra 15 pounds he added. I still think he’d be better in a 4-3 than a 3-4.
by smileyman on Feb 24, 2011 4:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Our defensive philosophy since Nolan, is why he performed in this manner.
He ranks with best in the league in ff’s, and as I said above all of our olbs used an outside rush. That set smith and McDonald up to beat one on ones as Mich as the Olb. We rarely seen our olbs rush inside shoulder.
RLOTT#42
i don’t think anyone has a “nack” for forcing fumbles. it was a big reason why FBO thought our defense would regress of 09 to 10.
surely they do
well, not a “nack” since that isn’t a word, but guys who are violent hitters or make a lot of effort to punch the ball out cause more fumbles than players who don’t.
James Harrison forces a lot of fumbles and I don’t think it’s all luck, it coz he a bad mofo.
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 24, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely someone can have that knack for forcing fumbles
FO referred to the fact that fumble recoveries are essentially random (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2008/fumble-luck-2007).
But certain players definitely have technique and skill at causing fumbles. Dwight Freeney has been in the top 15 (and ties) 4 out of the last 5 years in forcing fumbles. There are others that always hover at the top of the FF list too.
by lacrosse_cat on Feb 25, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
AMEN
Lawson was not the problem. Letting a talented guy go makes no sense. We have a bunch of wholes to full, why create another. Let’s see what he’s askin for before we all start the anti-manny chants.
Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.
Obviously Fangio feels he was a problem
I guess you know more about football than Fangio and all the sources that call Mallett a moron.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 25, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
oh, is THAT what Fangio said
hm. I guess I didn’t realize that you have to read the words that aren’t there too. You show me a source on Mallett whenever you’re ready kiddo, I’ve been asked since you started with the vitriol and you have yet to comply.
Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.
But that's the point.
I don’t think a single source has quoted Fangio saying that.
We have one writer saying that Fangio isn’t impressed with him, but he didn’t quote Fangio. So how is he supposed to know if he didn’t talk to the man? Is he assuming? Or more likely projecting his own biases into the story?
I think it's based upon the fact that when asked about the teams pass rushers
he talked about Brooks, then Haralson..
by whistlingmountain on Feb 25, 2011 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I'm usually not one to defend Glenn Dickey...
As he usually leans toward heavy negative douchebaggery, but I’m guessing(key word, guessing) that he poked around with some sources that told him Fangio’s thoughts on Lawson. I don’t think he would have written that based on his own beliefs.
by BustaTheRippa on Feb 26, 2011 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
I don't trust
Insinuations from the press. When they get it wrong they can always weasel out of it by saying.. well I never sourced it.. it was just the general feeling.
Known in more general terms as.. making things up.
Fair enough...
I usually feel that way as well… I’ve had to deal with the media’s treatment of my 2 favorite players, Barry bonds and Terrell Owens over the years…Just don’t think that’s what happened in this case….But that’s just my opinion.
by BustaTheRippa on Feb 26, 2011 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
It is entirely possible that is what Fangio thinks.
I’m just always on the lookout for weasel words. =)
I’m sure with the insinuation we’ll see a direct question to Fangio in the near future on the topic, and we’ll know something with more certainty.
I don’t think he’ll straight up answer it, but the way he avoids the question will speak volumes.
It's a horrid article even at Dickey standards..
especially compared to his columns pertaining to both Bonds and Owens in the paid edition of the Examiner.
Dickey seems almost senile now.
Bite my shiny metal sig
WE WANT BROOKS WE WANT BROOKS
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 25, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
3-4 OLB
It seems to me that when 3-4 OLB are effective pass rushers, it is because the defensive scheme does a good job of disguising who is going to blitz. The niners defense, like their offense [but to a lesser extent], was very, predictable. I see Lawson being a pro-bowl OLB in a standard 4-3, or in a 3-4 that is run by a coordinator who is good at blitzing. It would also help if there was some push up the middle by Frankline, which there rarely is. When the QB can step up around the OLB, they have little chance to get good pressure.
Good insight.
Not only do they disguise who is going to blitz, but they disguise where they are going to blitz. We sent Lawson around the edge again and again. Might as well just put Manny in a 3pt. stance on the end of our line.
Should have given him a coverage look and had the DE in front of him fire off hard across the OT’s face, the NT firing on a slant into gap between C and G, and bring both Manny and that side ILB in through the center gap.
Make the OT decide who to get and make the O hope the RB can spot the blitz and have the ability to pick up a man coming at them untouched. It is easily defensed if the O can spot it, but that IF is what football is all about.
this points to another deficiency we had, manny wasn’t sent to blitz a lot because the guys opposite him were complete liabilities in pass coverage.
Sorry misread you
For some reason I read Pass Rush not Pass Coverage.
by ChesapeakeBay9er on Feb 24, 2011 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
Manny Lawson:
Behind The Numbers: If you’re looking for a guy with upside, and who won’t break the bank, then why look further than Lawson? His rather pedestrian sack numbers don’t do him justice, considering he gets more pressure on a per-play basis than guys like Clay Matthews, James Harrison and Cameron Wake. It’s just that the 49ers opted to have him in a rotation which meant he only rushed the passer 218 times. Perhaps the 49ers were disappointed in him following his 2008 and 2009 season where he struggled to consistently get pressure on the QB. But in Year 5 he finally seemed to get it, and with an overload of teams running the 3-4 a number of them would do well to find a solid starter like Lawson.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
not to mention an acl tear takes two years to recover from.
front office dropped the ball by not resigning him cheap before the production just like V Davis…..
RLOTT#42
What production?
Although advanced statistics show that he did ok he didn’t have a great statistical year. Unless you believe 3 sacks is a great statistical year.
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
his production was better last year I believe
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
"solid starter" depends on what you're looking to get out of him
I think he’s a solid starter in 4-3, marginal starter in 3-4. He simply doesn’t have the pass rush capability, he’s never the guy causing the pressure, he only seldom reaps the rewards from someone else’s pressure.
He’s going to get paid solid starter ( or greater ) money. Not worth it for the 49ers.
I understand people like him, but from a purely football standpoint, not worth it. Wish him luck.
by whistlingmountain on Feb 25, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Its for 3-4 OLB
I swear sometimes I feel like people don’t read my links
Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3
any one interested in
DE jenkins from greenbay over soap ?
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