2011 NFL Lockout: DeMaurice Smith, Takeo Spikes Conduct Conference Call With SB Nation
Yesterday afternoon NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and lead negotiator Jeff Pash took half an hour to chat with some of SB Nation's football bloggers about the 2011 NFL Lockout issues, as well a variety of other pertinent league issues. Thanks to come quick turn around, SB Nation was able to schedule a conference call this morning with the NFL Players Trade Association Executive Director DeMaurice Smith and player rep Takeo Spikes. I was unable to take part but I did email in some questions to be asked. We'll have audio and a full transcript at some point, but for now here are a few excerpts.
Smith was asked about the letter Roger Goodell sent to the players the other day, discussed by smileyman this morning. Smith had this to say:
On Roger Goodell's letter to players sent on March 17:
DS: The league had intent to lock our players out since at least early 2009, and probably 2008. To the guys who are on the call, I'm sure you've seen the decision tree that came from an internal NFL document from early 2009, have you seen that? The document is called their decision tree. Roger's letter to the players - in that short letter, Roger said more words than he said throughout the entire mediation process. You can quote that. For a guy who spent more time writing a letter to the players than he spent engaging in good-faith negotiations during 15 days, does that sound like a true intent on behalf of the National Football League to reach a deal during the final 15 days of mediation?
The decision tree he mentions is this jpg file at nfllockout.com. I've generally sided more with the players but this answer seems to bounce around a bit. I suppose the question itself is kind of asking for that though. DeMaurice Smith is not one to shy away from expressing what he thinks with some colorful language. For example, yesterday Jeff Pash mentioned the union only wanting to talk about money towards the end and not some of the other issues. Smith's response today started with "Jeff only has a casual relationship with the truth."
There were several other questions, but one of the most pertinent that I wanted answered was the idea that the NFL's offer near the end that the league released to the pubic seemed to indicate some movement from the owners. It's a lot of detail, but worth post in its entirety.
On league's offer being starting point to further negotiations:
DS: That's easy to dismiss, because while everybody wants to focus on 15 days of mediation, my first letter to Roger Goodell after I got elected was May 18th of 2009. That's when negotiations started - May of 2009. So my question for the National Football League is as follows: from May 2009 up until the last day you proposed the worst deal in history, did you offer any audited financial statements to justify the worst deal in sports history? That's question one. From May 2009 until the last day of mediation, did you offer any economic justification for the players taking less than fifty percent of all revenue. From May of 2009 until the last day of mediation, how come the total amount of time players spent negotiating face to face with owners was less than three hours over 15 days? So for the assembled people who are on this call, does that sound like good faith negotiation to you?
If it helps, let's run through the numbers of the first two years. Let's have some ground rules so that we stay philosophically consistent where we're comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges. The NFL's deal would have been a 10-year deal. That is the first unassailable fact. Second unassailable fact: the NFL wanted us to take this deal without offering any audited financial statements of the teams so that we could understand the true financial picture of the NFL. That is unassailable fact number two. Unassailable fact number three: the NFL made their presentation on the last day of mediation, where they knew that the players union had to notify the courts by 5:30 about whether it was going to take advantage of its option to renounce. Before I go through the numbers, my guess is that when you spoke to Pash, my guess is he didn't lead off with those three unassailable facts. He's smart enough not to forget them. The reason why number one is critically important, number two is critically important, and number three is critically important, is right now I just want to run through the economic effects of the first two years of the deal alone. Not the last eight, just the first two.
In 2011, if we would have stuck with basically the same fifth-fifty split of all revenue, in 2011, revenue would be projected at $10.2 billion. Keeping that fifty-fifty split of all revenue, the cap would be approximately $155 million. That's assuming only a five percent growth of all revenue. Let's not get too technical; he league has been averaging about eight to nine percent growth per year, but for the sake of argument, let's just assume that football going forward isn't as popular as it's been for the last 50 years. Let's just assume only a five growth instead of an eight percent growth. The cap in 2011 would be $155 million. The cap under the league's proposal would be $141 million. That's a decrease of $14 million. Times 32 teams. I think you come up with $448 million in year one. Again, remember the three things we started with: the first year check that the players are writing to the richest men in the world is $448 million in year one. Does that sound like a good deal?
Under year one of the league's deal, the players are writing a check to the owners of $448 million. Our share of all revenue before the ink is dry on that deal now drops to 45% of all revenue. Last year we were at 48.9%. We've had a fifty-fifty split of all revenue with the NFL since approximately 1991. 60% is after they take their billion off the top. Once you include all revenue, it's been a fifty-fifty split since about 1991.
Year two of the NFL's fantastic (that is sarcastic) deal, the cap would have been approximately $163 million in 2012. The cap under their proposal would be $147 million. That's $16 million per team, times 32. That's an additional $512 million that the players are writing to the owners. The share of all revenue would drop to approximately 45.3% in year two. So we've got two sets of numbers that we need to look at and make sure that everybody understands right away. 448, 512, and then a drop immediately to 45% of all revenue.
In the uncapped year in 2010, you all understand that the NFL took $10 million from the players for each team. In the uncapped year, the NFL did not pay benefits to the players. In the uncapped year, there were unfunded benefits of $10 million per team. $10 million per team in the uncapped year. So the owners stuffed $10 million per team in their pockets in the uncapped year. This is critically important, it's progressive economics, so obviously if you disagree with anything I've said so far, if you don't understand it, tell me. I'm assuming the other folks on the phone are with me and understand it.
So you take $320 million from '10, $448 million in year one or 2011, $512 million in 2012 - I come up with $1.36 billion. By the time you get to 2012, that's the first two years of the deal. $1.36 billion out of the first two years alone. Progressively worse from there after. Going back to the three points where we started, the reason why I believe it's the worst deal in the history of sports is - you know what, there's one more thing I've got to do. I hate to stay in economics land, but the reality of the business of football is it's actually a fairly complex macro-economic model. That is $1.36 billion that does not include the stadium credit for new stadiums that the NFL had as a part of their deal. When you were with Jeff and he laid out his 16 points, do you remember where they included a credit for new stadiums, or stadium renovations? It was just an unfortunate detail for Jeff. The league wanted to include additional credits for stadium renovation and new stadiums. Their stadium credit proposals were in addition to what the cap number would be. They would fix the cap at $141 million, but nonetheless continue to take an additional credit for new or renovated stadiums. It would be taken off the top against the cap in the new deal.
For the first two years, I gave you the first two year numbers without the stadium credit. Now I'm going to give you the first two year numbers with the stadium credit. In 2011, with the stadium credit, the actual cap number would be $133 million. In year two of the deal, the cap would be $140 million. We did the math and came up with $1.36 billion without stadium credits; do you really have to do the math? With al due respect to Jeff, we may have been born at night, but not last night. When you take an economic look of the impact of this deal on the players of the NFL for the first two years alone, it's the worst deal in the history of sports. But then factor in the first three things that we started off with: it's a 10-year deal. The shares of all revenue would continue to go down throughout the course of the term of the deal. So if you factor in the stadium credits alone, by year two, the share of revenue is down to 42%. Assuming a five percent growth.
In reality, after two years of negotiations, two years - two years - after making multiple requests for audited financial statements, we came down to the last day where the league knew that we had to let the court know what we were gonna do by 5:00, and after two years of negotiation, they presented us this deal. Does that sound like good faith negotiations?
44 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I am much more impressed with this than the NFL’s. I think everyone’s biggest problem is that players make a lot of money. The fact is they are worth it. People are willing to pay a lot of money to watch Peyton Manning play. He could go to any league he wants and increase their revenues. The future could be that players become mercenaries.
by mcwagner on Mar 18, 2011 10:17 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I agree, but we to realize, this is the first we have heard anything like this from the NFLPA or players.
I can now see why he said it is the “the worst deal in sports history”
I don’t think he is adding in the compensation that the NFL is adding.. for health, retirement etc. So his yearly total may be a little off but I do see his point.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
He's not
he’s expecting the NFL to fund health care, retirement benefits, extended pension benefits, etc. out of their own pockets.
Health care benefits alone are $10 million per year per team.
you go to work and break your leg?
should your work not pay for that?
you would sue if your employer did not pay for it.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Mar 18, 2011 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Quit saying Worst in History
Dumb & hurts his cred. Steve Young got maybe 35 percent what he was owed – & that because he had a personal side to his contract. That’s when his LA team folded.
That aside, it’s apparent that the NFL wanted a lockout. The decision was made, probably in 2008, to redo the deal. It’s hard to say what a proper deal should be, but the union isn’t wrong about that.
The economy is worse – I’d say much worse – that what you read in the paper. So both the owners and the players need to compromise. It’ll probably happen after pro football is damaged, esp. the 2011 year.
I completely agree
Here’s my point though. If the Owners are asking for an increase in the % of the revenues that are brought in than they need to prove it. I mean I look it from this perspective, if they can prove that they need an increase and still the players dont agree to it then its the players who are holding up this deal. But to say to the players that “we need more money” but we wont show you why seems irrational and will never happen. The Players and the Fans are the reason the Owners are making so much money. The only team that I can say that has an argument to make is the Packers since they are run by the city of Green Bay every other team is privately owned
I remain unconvinced as to why the players
think they should get 50% of all revenues. Are they taking 50% of the risk? no. Are they going to split the costs of new stadiums 50%? Of course not. How about paying 50% of coaches salaries, or 50% of retired players benefits, or 50% of all the other expenses that the owners have.
If they’re willing to split the costs equally, then by all means split the revenues equally.
Maybe what is needed for them to see eye-to-eye
is to be paid partially in stock and become minority owners?
by DeathValleyCarl on Mar 18, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
And I don’t think I could convince you. I feel the players take a similar risk in using their bodies (their greatest asset) in the line of work with a 99% chance of injury. They assume the risk of knowing they will get injured. The owners assets, money, is risked at a lower risk with assistance from the other owners and taxes. Remember also that the 50% goes to all the players and the other 50% to just a few owners. Perhaps the retirement and health benefits can be shared equally between both parties as it is a benefit to both.
by mcwagner on Mar 18, 2011 12:08 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
does the 3rd string qB
who doesn’t dress for a game put equal risk in? what about the 7 other guys who don’t dress on gameday? Sure, the starters put their bodies at risk, but there are 22 starters and 53 players on the roster.
maybe they do not practice either?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Mar 18, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
you keep mentioning risk
how much risk do the owners have?
what is their “risk” exactly?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Mar 18, 2011 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
50%
Doesn’t that come down to what you consider the value of labor? I suppose this gets into a more philosophical debate, but basically some people value the labor higher and believe the laborers deserve a bigger piece of the pie. While they aren’t the ones buying a team, there is no product without them. If one values the labor at a certain level then it makes sense for them to get what they want in this deal.
Also, with regards to money being put in. Whatever Jones put in when he bought the Cowboys and Texas Stadium, he paid that out early, but the Cowboys have developed into basically a license to print money from all the merchandise and their general popularity. The Cowboys value has increased dramatically and while he’s brought in some quality business people, I don’t really buy into the idea that he’s taking these huge risks with his own money at this point in the timeline of his ownership.
As to the injury arguments, I don’t think they hold much water since there are plenty of jobs out there that have a high risk of injury.
by David Fucillo on Mar 18, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
For 50% how much goes to each player?
Like on the 49ers, what percentage of that 50% goes to Willis and Davis?
How about if they make the min higher thereby limiting what the max for each player could be.
So for your 53 players you have a league min salary of $1 million and the min you would pay out is $53 million. One reason is that each player takes an equal risk.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
The top tier players will not agree to this. Like myself, I am not going to give up money for a guy that will not put in the time and energy I give. Equal benefits will make things fair.
by mcwagner on Mar 18, 2011 12:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
so you're saying
that the 52nd person on the roster isn’t busting his balls more than the prima donna WR?
equal risk?
You think each player takes an equal risk when they step on the field? I’m not saying a kicker or punter doesn’t take a risk, but they’re not the ones with reduced life spans.
by David Fucillo on Mar 18, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
equal risk in that every player who steps onto the field in practice and the games is at risk
I am also not saying that they should all get paid the same.. but the possibility of raising the min salary to bring the two ends closer. You will still have someone making $500,000 and someone else on the team making $15 million…
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Salary cap in 2009 was $127 million
The 49ers spent $103 million on actual salary (I’m sure their cap figures were higher). The top 10 salaries that year totaled 55,872,986 or 54.2% of total salary.
The specific details of the 2010 salary numbers haven’t been released yet (or I can’t find them), but I expect a general decline in spending to match the rest of the league.
Value of labor
In no other field could the labor pool demand 50% of the business’s revenues and not get laughed out of the bargaining table. Keep in mind this isn’t 50% of revenue after expenses are paid, this is 50% of total revenue.
DeMaurice Smith seems very opposed to stadium financing, but I’ve done the research and a team’s financial health dramatically improves with new stadiums. When the team’s finances do better that’s more money into the total revenue pie, which means more revenue for the players—only he doesn’t recognize this as a legitimate cost at all.
you need to realize
that the owners do not play football. players should just let the owners play football themselves and start their own league. enjoy watching the nfl then.
other business spend more than 50% to manufacture or produce their products.
go study profit margins at companies and look at their expenses and see how much money they spend to do what they do.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Mar 18, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
My question is do you think that less than 50 people (depending on majority shareholders) should get substantial more 1,600 to 2,500 players (depending on active rosters & offseason rosters)
Like Fooch, its all dependent on how you could risk being involved. Financial the Owners are making the risk (depending on if you consider it a risk seeing as how much money the NFL brings in). But the Players are the ones who are making the physical risk, the players are the ones who are essentially agents for the franchise and bring the prestige of a franchise up. The only owners are more well known the players on their teams are Al Davis & Jerry Jones. Fans arent going to games to see the owners they are going to games to see the players.
I’m not saying that you dont make valid points but when you average out the amount each owner would receive to each player its far less than you think
Yeah I do
they’re the ones who are putting up the financial risk.
I also think the deal needs to be fair for both sides, which means both sides (players and owners) need to be willing to move. The players haven’t moved a bit off their 50% demand. The owners have moved from 45% (their initial offer) to 48%, the number that the players walked out on
Yes while I agree that the owners are putting up the financial risk, it is because of the players that a majority of that 9 billions in revenue comes in
And im not saying that the players shouldnt compromise and give back a bit of that money. I just think its unfair of you to say that the owners who are deserve more. And is it really a risk? in the 30’s through 80’s I would agree with you but in this day and age its not that much of a risk.
But lets go with your argument that it is a financial risk, whats more of a risk the money in your pocket or the years on your life. The life expectancy of a NFL player is substantially less than that of a average human or even against the other Pro Sports. So whats more important money or life? whats more of a risk the money in your account or the amount of years your body has left?
You are comparing Apples to Oranges.. doesn't work, never did.
Without the owners, there is no football.
Without the players, there is no football.
They need to both bend to make an agreement.
To it another way.. You wife (generally speaking) wants more because she keeps the house clean, takes care of the kids and cooks every great meals. You, bring in a lot more money.. and so you have a nice house to live in. It isn’t a marriage without both sides bending. He cleans after dinner, watches the kids sometimes. takes them to games… she get to go out with her friends.. and she also works.. this probably is a better deal for us guys.. but it does seem to work.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
what is financial risk?
how about the nfl paying back all the money from the public that has ever been spent on stadiums or anything else to help an nfl team?
so the public has taken “risk” and yet they have never received anything but to watch the super bowl from unsafe seats or out in a snow storm, $10.00 beers, and cow trough urinals.
wow, you has lost most from that risk that you are talking about?
billionaire owners or the general public whose tax money has supported the league and many of those tax payers do not even watch the nfl?
sign me up for that risk where I can make tens of millions of dollars every single year unless I do something stupid and lock out my business.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Mar 18, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
split costs?
the players already allow the owners to take $32,000,000.00 off the top. that is more than 50% of the “costs” the biggest costs are the players.
really the best solution may be a football league that is owned and played by the players.
these fat billionaire owners are not needed. only parts that are needed is players and fans. heck tax payers have funded most of these stadiums. coaches can be replaced and so can the refs.
you mention risk, how much risk do these owners have? football is the only sport that does not lose money. baseball and basketball do. football has made many of these owners billionaires(jerry jones is probably a multi-billionaire from football alone) and give them all a lifestyle that most owners would not have otherwise. it is not like these owners have invented anything. the only thing these owners have done is make fat contracts with tv companies.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Mar 18, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's just find a way to let the market speak
I think the players should get what the market could bear. Look at other top entertainment professionals, they all take risks, stress, deadlines, substance abuse, and even some physical stresses too. Lower rooks, stabilize vets, take care of retirees and there you go.
Jay Cruise
Chuck Norris Gym Zeolit Arthritis Remedies
As a wellness coach I hope you agree that one of the greatest problems players face is mental health. Instant fame, wealth, responsibilities, and constant criticism. If your footwork is a little off your coach will scold you and you are in slow motion for thousands of fans to call you garbage. This is why Ricky Williams left football the first time.
by mcwagner on Mar 18, 2011 12:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
That and he loved to smoke grass....
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
players can not get what the market will bear because of the collusion from the owners.
this is why they are suing to have fair and competitive market so they can seek what the market will bear.
salary caps, 4-5-6 years for rfa and ufa and draft comp picks, franchise tags all prevent players from getting what the market will bear.
do you think peyton manning will get a bigger contract from negotiating with colts only or from negotiating with 32 teams?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Mar 18, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions

by 





































