Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Golden Nuggets: BPA Over Need

Well, I like to think my April Fools Day was successful. I mean, Fooch still hasn't noticed that I changed the tagline on top of Niners Nation, but you know - may as well keep it. I'll change it back when I wake up in a few hours, but it has officially been up there for more than 24 hours now. Either way, if you missed it, I paid homage to 49ers great Arnaz Battle yesterday, so peruse that post and express your gratitude in the form of a '10' vote, or receive the dividends of a colossal beatdown at the hands of ... well, me. Sucka. Anyway, so that fun is over and I hope Tre9er and manraj enjoyed their free t-shirts. We've got some pertinent linkage for you guys today, and no, Patrick Willis will not be joining the UFC, and no - he would not go there and beat wholesale [site decorum]. He'd probably get beatdown, until he had more than a few months of training.

I am a firm believer in BPA over need when it comes to the draft, especially in the first round (mostly just the first round, in fact), but lucky for the top six teams - their needs fit right in with the BPA. (CSNBayArea.com)

What do the 49ers' pre-draft visits tell us? Quite a bit, actually, though teams don't always workout players they intend to draft ... all part of the strategy. (SacBee.com)

Hey guys, how about the 49ers switch to a 4-3 defense? How about not, actually. I would hate that, personally. Quite a bit. (SFGate.com)

Star-divide

Draft Spotlight: Sam Acho (49ers.com)

Checking in with 49ers GM Trent Baalke (ESPN.com)

A breather for the Bell Cow? It could finally happen (PressDemocrat.com)

Yesterday on Niners Nation

Niners Nation After Dark: Bring On The Weekend | Fooch
Golden Nuggets: Trade Him! | Ninjames
2011 NFL Pro Days Schedule: T.J. Yates And Strong Pro Day Performances | Fooch
2011 NFL Mock Drafts, 49ers Mock Draft Database 2.7: Any Surprises On The Horizon? | Fooch
No CBA, No Football: Caption This! | howtheyscored
California High Speed Rail System: A Positive Impact For Fans And Sports? | Fooch
49ers 2011 Roster Confidence, Wide Receiver: Arnaz Battle Is A BEAST! | Ninjames
2011 NFL Draft, 50 in 50: Titus Young - WR - Boise St. (22 of 50) | Drew K

Being a Sheep

Be sure to follow @NinersNation on Twitter as well as on Facebook. You can follow SB Nation Bay Area on Twitter @sbnbayarea and also on Facebook. My personal Twitter is @ninnyjams.

If you're new here, you can register for a free account to participate in the discussion and create your own fanposts here at Niners Nation and across our entire network of 300 sports blogs.

Comment 35 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

James, I saw what you did to Tre and manraj, and I am not amused.

I would find it hilarious, except I followed the link myself.

On a related note, I am going to take credit for inventing the phrase “Rebecca Roll”.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Apr 2, 2011 3:22 AM PDT reply actions  

which reminds me...

check out this video i found. i swear, it HAS to be the inspiration for “Friday”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXo74fP6eA

about 20 seconds in, the lyrics become all about the days of the week.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Apr 2, 2011 3:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

HE FREAKING WARNED ME AGAIN

I want them all gone. Also I hate that song. I thought I actually won a free shirt.

Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3

by manraj7 on Apr 2, 2011 3:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

you want all what gone?

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Apr 2, 2011 3:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

all of my warnings.

all of them muhahahahahahahahahahaha

Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3

by manraj7 on Apr 2, 2011 3:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think warnings can be removed from your moderation log

but joke warnings don’t really affect your membership down the road. Having x number of warnings doesn’t automatically set the system to ban you next time you get one, or anything like that.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Apr 2, 2011 4:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

how sad. What am I paying you for if you can’t delete my warnings

Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3

by manraj7 on Apr 2, 2011 4:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

you are paying me?

i have yet to receive anything.

banned.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on Apr 2, 2011 4:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Its in the mail

Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3

by manraj7 on Apr 2, 2011 4:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

<3

And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter

by James Brady on Apr 2, 2011 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cricket world cup finals are on now.

Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3

by manraj7 on Apr 2, 2011 3:39 AM PDT reply actions  

crictime.com

"The year we beat Miami in the Super Bowl, ... do you know how many defensive linemen were in our rotation? Nine, and we used them all quite a bit. We just wore the Dolphins out."
Bill Walsh quote

by Iupati_like_its_1999 on Apr 2, 2011 4:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Looks good

Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
my dog <3

by manraj7 on Apr 2, 2011 4:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thoughts on the nuggets.

I think going strictly with BPA or Need is foolish.

I think you have to consider the change in productivity for any player added.

Lets say we get Jonathan Joseph in FA and grab Patrick Peterson at #7, but our offense still sputters due to missing on our QB pick this year and we draft at #10 next year. If the BPA is a corner, adding him to the team is not going to be as big an upgrade as taking a QB.

So I think it’s a mix. You have your positions of need, and the positions where adding another player of any talent level is not going to help you much. So you take the BPA that fills any of your need positions to get the most improvement in wins.

On switching to the 4-3. I think it would be a smart idea.

The benefit of the 3-4 used to be that few teams ran it. So you could pick up that human wall of flesh at NT that didn’t really fit in the 4-3. You could pick up the smaller DE’s in the middle rounds and convert them into large OLB’s. You could pick up the big DT’s that weren’t so great at penetration in the lower rounds and use them as your DE’s.

But now where half the league runs the 3-4 there is a premium on these positions and not enough talent to fill them.

In the 4-3 defensive tackles and linebackers are now easier to come by in the middle rounds, and the premium positions are the defensive ends.

And with this draft an an example.. there are far more 4-3 ends available than ends who can realistically be converted to OLB.

by Ougadas on Apr 2, 2011 8:39 AM PDT reply actions  

Respectfully disagree

We’ve aready been running the 3-4 pretty effectively with one or two short-comings.
 
First is cornerbacks getting burned. If Patrick Petersen is there at #7 picking him adresses this issue directly. So I disagree with your choice of example to make the taking the BPA isn’t a good strategy.
 
I do agree taking players by need is a good idea if executed responsibly. For example, if Petersen, Miller, Farley, Dareus, Gabbert and Newton go first six picks. We are staring at Da’Quan Bowers who may not fit a 3-4 defense, which we don’t have the roster to switch to nor the inclination.
 
He is the BPA, and none of our needs are the next BPA unless you like Amukamara enough to pick him here. You can probably trade back and still get him. Which is pretty much my point, We can trade the pick for Bowers to a team like Tampa who can really use a good DE and has the 20th and the 51st pick.
 
I don’t see many quarterbacks being picked in the first round this year so an extra pick could mean an extra try at getting a good quarterback this year. Let’s face it, picking a good quarterback in the draft is all about getting lucky. Well that, and getting good Offensive Linemen.

It's about having the kind of faith that makes all the "what if's" irrelevant - Jim Harbaugh 2011

Frank Gore has earned his place among the great running backs of the NFL - Pat Willie on NN

by Pat Willie on Apr 2, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Except

Those shortcomings are supposed to be the strength of the 3-4..

I think you agree with my example if you re-read it. I said if we get Peterson this year AND sign a top tier FA CB, then NEXT year taking a CB in the 1st wouldn’t help us that much.

by Ougadas on Apr 2, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess my reading skills are a bit off this week, and it’s the second time in two days. I didn’t read close enough to catch the next year part of your example.

The way you constructed your example it seemed as if you were saying something about this year drafting a corner based on need, then you switched it at the last second. I should be ready for that.

I still disagree that we should switch to 4-3. I don’t intend to claim it can’t be done or it’s not as good of a system, but I don’t think it’s the right move for us right now. Strength of coach, strength of defensive linemen, blagh blagh ect…and so on.

I don’t think anyone is going to recommend drafting entirely based on BPA when there are holes that can’t be filled due to free agent uncertainty.

It's about having the kind of faith that makes all the "what if's" irrelevant - Jim Harbaugh 2011

Frank Gore has earned his place among the great running backs of the NFL - Pat Willie on NN

by Pat Willie on Apr 2, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

I can be tricky. Especially when I don’t explain my thoughts very well. That’s more on me than on your reading.

I don’t think one system is inherently better than the other.

I just look at our current personnel and aside from missing a DE to play opposite Justin Smith — they are mostly all 4-3 guys. Willis, Lawson, Haralson, Soap, Smith, Bowman, Spikes — the only guy who really fits a 3-4 better than a 4-3 is Franklin.

Some of them like Willis, Spikes, and Smith are just going to be dominant no matter what you play. The others are round pegs being pounded into square holes.

I’m thinking maybe I was wrong about Mason Foster in the draft thread. Round peg, square hole. I’ll have to rework that mock.

by Ougadas on Apr 2, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I kind of agree...

the only problem is that the missing position (DE) is a pretty major part of the 4-3…and you kind of need to have backups, too…we are kind of stuck in-between. From everything I’ve read about Fangio, though, it doesn’t seem likely that we’ll switch.

by ljl on Apr 2, 2011 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hrmmm.. maybe not.

Lawson was a 4-3 end in college. I didn’t think about that.

Lawson, RJF, Soap, Smith (assuming Franklin would walk in FA)

Willis, Spikes, Bowman

Don’t have to draft a soul for the front 7.

In our current boat, we have big needs at NT and OLB.

by Ougadas on Apr 3, 2011 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve said over and over that it’s a mix. Just that, in the first round, it’s more “biased” toward BPA than need. The point is that reaching for need will get you burned in the first round.

I completely disagree about the 4-3 talk. I don’t think it’s a good fit at all.

And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter

by James Brady on Apr 2, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

You know Ninjames

Most of the time I can’t even remember what you said in the article or what side of things you are on. To me it’s not that important.

Vast majority of the time I’m just seeing some topic that sets my mind thinking and after some time surfing around I come back and the thought train travels from my skull to the keyboard.

by Ougadas on Apr 2, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, that’s fine my friend. I’m just pointing out right now my side of things. You make some good points, I just happen to disagree with them.

And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter

by James Brady on Apr 2, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ok great.

I didn’t want you to think there was anything personal in it. Ambiguity of text and all.

Disagreement is great. Forces me to think again and maybe refine or change some things.

by Ougadas on Apr 2, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Respectfully disagree

We’ve aready been running the 3-4 pretty effectively with one or two short-comings.

First is cornerbacks getting burned. If Patrick Petersen is there at #7 picking him adresses this issue directly. So I disagree with your choice of example to make the taking the BPA isn’t a good strategy.

I do agree taking players by need is a good idea if executed responsibly. For example, if Petersen, Miller, Farley, Dareus, Gabbert and Newton go first six picks. We are staring at Da’Quan Bowers who may not fit a 3-4 defense, which we don’t have the roster to switch to nor the inclination.

He is the BPA, and none of our needs are the next BPA unless you like Amukamara enough to pick him here. You can probably trade back and still get him. Which is pretty much my point, We can trade the pick for Bowers to a team like Tampa who can really use a good DE and has the 20th and the 51st pick.

I don’t see many quarterbacks being picked in the first round this year so an extra pick could mean an extra try at getting a good quarterback this year. Let’s face it, picking a good quarterback in the draft is all about getting lucky. Well that, and getting good Offensive Linemen.

It's about having the kind of faith that makes all the "what if's" irrelevant - Jim Harbaugh 2011

Frank Gore has earned his place among the great running backs of the NFL - Pat Willie on NN

by Pat Willie on Apr 2, 2011 9:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Sorry I guess I didn't post this under reply like i meant to

It's about having the kind of faith that makes all the "what if's" irrelevant - Jim Harbaugh 2011

Frank Gore has earned his place among the great running backs of the NFL - Pat Willie on NN

by Pat Willie on Apr 2, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

ban

its a good post. I just think the coach’s strengths need to be observed

by mcwagner on Apr 2, 2011 9:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I wanted to say that, but I didn’t want to write an encyclopedia.

It's about having the kind of faith that makes all the "what if's" irrelevant - Jim Harbaugh 2011

Frank Gore has earned his place among the great running backs of the NFL - Pat Willie on NN

by Pat Willie on Apr 2, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

The ban has been lifted.

by mcwagner on Apr 2, 2011 3:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Eh … not really … it’s clearly a 3-4 defense. Every defense moves around.

And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter

by James Brady on Apr 2, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Isn’t that what Nolan tried to do?

by twolfe2 on Apr 2, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup. Its a great defense if you have the personnel that is smart enough to understand it

by mcwagner on Apr 2, 2011 3:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Media Requests please email ninersnation@gmail.com

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Site Decorum: Remember, We Are ALL 49er Fans

Recent FanPosts

Small
Concussions...
Small
Is Harbaugh lying or does he mean what he says?
872_small
Where have you seen 49er players?
Download2_small
Can the 49'ers Maintain their Turnover Differential in 2012?
Sfak_small
Why are you a 49er fan?
6a00e5500c77218833011168f234b4970c_small
FOX: "How To Save The Sport"
Small
Old Spice Patrick Willis Football ProCamp
Dave_small
Call For Moderators
Steve_young_small
Game Day Food

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Head Ball Coach

Dave_small David Fucillo

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

313483_2054510893373_1562580382_31984672_1965025_n_small James Brady

Coordinator

Pirates_small smileyman

Bowman_avi_sm_small Tre9er

Assistant Coach

Pixies_logo_small (Florida) Danny Tuccitto

Memento-lies_small urnext

Me_on_beach_small WesHanson

Dylan_cannes_small Dylan DeSimone

Officiating Crew

Jackalope_card_small wjackalope

These3words_small these3words

Joe_and_bill_small twolfe2

428030_10150598134996875_112852666874_9167376_1157036734_n_small mikeinsp