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2011/2012 Roster Projections: Cornerback

First off I would like to apologize for forgetting the tight ends in my offensive projections.  As far as that goes, I think we will add another TE or two in free agency.  Harbaugh LOVES his tight ends, and our current four is unlikely to satisfy him.  Look for us to add a guy like Brett Brackett whenever we can start signing people.

Star-divide

CB

I'm starting with the corner position because it is probably the most controversial and the most unknown as far as what the coaches are thinking. 

I have to say, I'm very much on the "Nate Clements is a bum" train, but unlike everybody else I will actually explain the logical reasons why I think that.  One of our games against the Seahawks (game 1?) Nate bit on the same pump fake TWICE, both plays resulting in a touchdown.  As any coach in any profession will tell you, making a mistake is not a problem, it's how we learn.  But DON'T make the same mistake twice.  I'll come back to this.  For now, it's safe to say that Nate almost single-handedly lost that game.  I know, I know, the rest of our team didn't play well either.  But when your number 1 corner single-handedly gives up 14 points on two bone-headed plays that REALLY sucks the life out of your team.  If that was Nate's only bad game I wouldn't be too concerned.  But then there was that Saints game where he made a crucial interception late in the game and made the bad decision to try to score, and the second bad decision of not securing the ball.  I know, I know, if he had scored it would be a different story.  But this a long time veteran in the league.  He's not an excited little kid any more.  He should know automatically what the situation is (time on clock, score, etc) AND know what he should do in the case of him getting an interception (get on the ground!).  Again, he pretty much single-handedly lost us that game.  Still, I might have been willing to forgive him for that if he had played well the rest of the season.  Yet he was consistently made to look bad.  He got burned deep, he got burned short.  He made silly decisions that veterans should not make.  Teams consistently threw the ball at him instead of Spencer or Brown or even Philip Adams!  Worse still, he NEVER made opposing teams pay for doing this.  Instead he somehow managed to allow them to get away with it.  Spencer is not a fantastic player.  Neither is Tarell Brown.  Yet teams didn't seem to care much about throwing the ball at them.  If they left a guy wide open then sure, teams took advantage.  But most of the time it was, "Hey, let's throw the ball at Clements!  There's no risk cause he's not going to intercept it, and even if he's draped all over the guy our player is still going to come up with the ball somehow." (The draped all over him thing definitely happened.  I distinctly remember a couple of plays where I was left scratching my head wondering how the heck Nate didn't pick it or at least knock it away.  These sorts of things tell me that his ball skills are falling apart.)  Nate is WAY too experienced to be forgiven for the kinds of dumb mistakes he made or his overall bad play.  He's getting up there in age and is only going to get worse from here.  If he was a number 3 corner he might be worth a look, but you can't forget his unique ability to make rookie mistakes and single-handedly lose games.  He is a huge liability on the field.  SO, please, please cut Clements!  (HERE is a great example of his sub-par play and a consequent stupid decision to try and make up for it.)


Shawntae Spencer is, to me, an unknown.  He had a very solid 2009 season, but he declined a little bit last year.  I think he would still be a good number 2 guy, but I can't say for sure.  The problem is, I haven't seen teams throw at him consistently.  Last season teams picked on Clements so much that it kind of sheltered Spencer.  SO Spencer may or may not be that great.  We'll have to wait and see.


Tarell Brown is a bit of wild card.  Mostly he hasn't lived up to his potential, but he seemed to improve down the stretch last season.  We'll have to see what happens with him now that we have a fantastic DBs coach.

Philip Adams looked pretty good in limited action and in pre-season last year.  I'm sure he's still a bit raw though, especially having come from such a small school.  We will have to see what happens when we stop sheltering him and just let him show what he's got (or doesn't got).  I have no idea what the coaching staff thinks about his ceiling.  Is the idea of him being a number one or two corner ludicrous to them, or is his ceiling actually that high?

Traimaine Brock is another unknown.  I am a bit intrigued him though for a couple of reasons.  The number 1 reason is that the Niners have experimented with undrafted corners for a while and never found one they liked.  The fact that Brock made the 53 man roster makes me wonder if there's something there the coaches like (and will that hold true with the new coaches?) or is he just a fast, physical guy that's good for special teams? 

Chris Culliver could be a Pro Bower or he could be the new voice of the Geico Lizard.  Nobody really knows which at this point.  He's a bit of a Taylor Mays to be honest.  Fast, good size, versatile, talented, coaches had trouble figuring out what his best position was.  Because he hasn't played much corner nobody really knows what his ceiling is.  He could be a better corner than Patrick Peterson or he could be a guy that never really manages to put it together.  Because he was a 3rd round pick I'm going to assume that our coaching staff thinks his ceiling is as a number 1 corner.  For now I'm going to trust in this pick for a couple of reasons.  A: he's really fast, fluid, good hands/ball skills (former WR) and has very good recovery speed. Our secondary looks like a bunch of old men in wheelchairs compared to this guy.  We consistently got burned by fast, shifty receivers last year.  Culliver could be the solution to that.  As his coach noted, legit 4.3 guys are very hard to find.  B: we have one of the best DBs coaches in the entire NFL in Ed Donatell.  If anybody can help this kid reach his full potential it's Donatell.  C: he was a starter at WR, starter at Safety, and starter at Cornerback.  That tells me that this is a legitimately talented kid who is a very fast learner.   If he can pick up the Cornerback position this fast then I think he'll surprise a lot of people out on the field.  In the worst case scenario, he is at least a very good returner and could replace Ginn (just as fast, possibly just as talented, but younger).

Chris Holcomb could become a good nickel back.  He was a seventh round draft pick so I know that we can't expect too much out of him.  But he was a good college corner, four time team captain, had 12 career interceptions (something we've been missing for too long), and is going to to go beyond whatever talent he has because of his desire, confidence, and fantastic work ethic.  He's also going to be competing in a wide open competition against guys who really haven't established themselves as legitimate starters yet.  This competition is likely to bring out the best in him.


Final Word:  The cornerback position is wide open.  Any one of our guys could be starting day 1.  That includes Clements, Spencer, Brown, Adams, Brock, Culliver, Holcomb, and possibly a free agent yet-to-be-acquired.  I hope the lockout ends soon so that Donatell can get his hands on these guys and do what he can to bring out the best in them.  I hope Nate Clements is cut because of the reasons I listed above.  Beyond that, I have no idea what to expect.  I don't see guys like Adams, Brock or Holcomb as anything more than a 3rd corner.  That leaves Spencer, Brown, Culliver and maybe Clements or a FA to fight it out for the two starting spots.  That kinda scares me.  What do you guys think?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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Seems like a very crowded position.

Plenty of young potential.

I can almost guarantee there will be a surprise at CB this year, and I couldn’t possibly guess who it will be.

We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.

by these3words on May 17, 2011 9:48 AM PDT reply actions  

Holcomb or Adams

Kellen Moore is awesome
Katie Mcgrath is our savior
Im not competitive I just addicted to winning.

by manraj7 on May 17, 2011 5:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I believe you are refering to the falcons game where roddy white stripped the ball from nate. From what I saw on the play, it looked like he was in the process of switching the ball to the other side, closest to the sideline. That is what they are coached to do. Roddy just got there at just the right time and made a fantastic play.

by Andrew9erfan on May 17, 2011 10:17 AM PDT reply actions  

yea - change saints game to falcons game

which I blame nate for that loss, but other than not just going out of bounds, he had a good game.

by reedkrase on May 17, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Going out of bounds or falling down would not have guarenteed a win for us. Had we gone 3 and out(likely) they still would have had enough time on the clock and better field position than they did

by Andrew9erfan on May 17, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trust Your Teammates

It’s like a game of basketball or hockey. You can’t go all kamikaze-ball because you THINK your team-mates MIGHT fail. You’ve got to stick to your coaching and play smart football. You either take the knee right away or you do so the moment you get a bunch of opposing players in front of you. DON’T try to run through or around a bunch of enemy players. Take the knee and trust the guys that have scored enough points to keep your team in a position to win.

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

BTW, we'd have the ball in EASY field-goal range

If we’d gone three and out we still would have gotten 3 points and the Falcons would’ve had to drive the length of the field to come back.

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

not if he had just gone down where he caught it which is what most people were advocating. He went for what would have gaurenteed the win and I can’t fault him for that. He didn’t see White coming behind him and thought he was going to score. Nothing wrong with his actions, other than letting the ball get stripped.

by Andrew9erfan on May 22, 2011 3:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

also, had he not made a great play initially, this wouldn’t even be something being discussed. At least he was out there trying to help his team. Would you rather have just had someone else there not make the interception?

by Andrew9erfan on May 22, 2011 3:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Clip of Nate getting beat actually shows his strength, not his weakness

everybody gets beat at some point, Nate new it and gave up a 1st down instead of a sure touchdown. Sometimes pass intereference is the best way to go.

by reedkrase on May 17, 2011 11:03 AM PDT reply actions  

Clements is overpaid...

but he’s certainly the best corner we have, barring Culliver coming in and shocking everybody on day 1. He’ll have to renegotiate like everyone says, but I’d be surprised if he isn’t a starter for us this entire year. The only way we just get rid of him straight up, is if we sign one of the top two corners available in FA; Asomugha or Joseph.

by 9thevolution on May 17, 2011 12:57 PM PDT reply actions  

yup

People hating on Nate make some good points. The point I have made and will continue to make is that our CB depth sucks ballz and he’s the best guy we have so it would be foolish to get rid of your best CB.

QUESTION: When is our QB going to answer questions like "You only threw 4 TD's today. What's wrong with the offense?"
ANSWER: When Andrew Luck ditches the draft and we sign him as an undrafted free agent!!!

by crumpedup15 on May 17, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

QUESTION

Why do people say Clements is our best cornerback? Is is just because he is the most high-profile? Is it because his name is called by the announcers more on tv? Is it because Spencer wasn’t “supposed” to be a starter in 2009 but stepped up and did a great job as a starter?

Honestly, what does Clements do right in pass protection any more? Yes, he can stop the run, but as far as the pass goes he doesn’t do anything right! He’s too slow now, gets himself out of position, his ball skills are fading to the point where just can’t find the ball in the air, he makes stupid mental errors. Yes, I am hating on him. Because really, what does he do right anymore?

At least Spencer stopped the pass more than 50% of the time last year (85% in 2009). Clements didn’t even do that!

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

(If anybody is REALLY bored, break it down by game. You'll find that last year Clements got beat more and made more costly mistakes.)

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

you are the exact opposite of the truth. spencer is a big questions mark and really should be a question mark as the nickle back not your number two cb. clements does not make “mental” errors. mental error is giving up a deep pass than going to argue with your teammate when you should be making sure that the receiver is either out of bounds or you tackle him. clements is the niners best cb and was probably the best cb in the nfc west last year.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 20, 2011 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

cromartie that good? cardinals did draft a guy named peterson.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 21, 2011 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes they did

But we would have too whether Clements is on the roster or not.

Cromartie is generally considered in the top 15 CBs in the league. Clements is top 25. MAYBE.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on May 25, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Crabtree pwns Cromartie.

You're not a 49er unless you got a gold star from Trent Baalke. Only "high character" guys get to play for the 49ers. The team is built in the locker room, as we all know.

by BustaTheRippa on May 25, 2011 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

clements

has not been overpaid but without restructuring will be overpaid next season. he has been paid below the level that “elite” cb’s in the league get paid.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 18, 2011 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately there is no statistic for “Games Lost”. If there were Clements would be last in the league. Spencer did get beat last year, but he didn’t give up a lot of points and he looked great in 2009. He’s worth keeping around to see if he regains his form. Clements is a liability whatever way you look at it.

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

clements did not lose the game.

you can not blame him for intercepting than fumbling. they would have scored with or without him intercepting.
I blame the other teammates for not blocking the player who knocked the ball lose.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 18, 2011 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Spencer almost single handedly gave up the Panthers game

He was aweful and got burned all day by a below average player. Clements getting beat by top tier receivers doesn’t compare.

by 9thevolution on May 19, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here's another guy's opinion ...

First, your assessment of the current CB roster is right on.

Quite honestly, I don’t see ANY NFL starting-quality CBs on our existing roster, at least based upon their play during the 2010 season. I suppose that Spencer could rebound to his 2009 performance level, but if he doesn’t he shouldn’t be starting. So, if we don’t have any “real” starters what should we do? The rest of the defense doesn’t deserve to have to live with rookie CBs; I would love to sign Nnamdi as a FA, but IMO he will simply be too expensive; so I would prefer to take those funds and savings from some renegotiations (see below) and sign TWO FA CBs as our starters … if I were Baalke, I would try to sign Johnathan Joseph (Bengals) and Richard Marshall (Panthers).

OK, what about the rest of the CB roster? In my mind Clements has a choice to make … (1) sign a substantially reduced contract and be willing to play nickel or backup, or (2) you’re gone. Just that simple. By the way, nobody else is going to sign Nate to a big-dollar deal anymore.

IMO Tarell Brown has been a disappointment since the day he was drafted … he’s had opportunities and has shown virtually nothing. Will James is too old and too injury-prone. Tramaine Brock doesn’t show me much … he’s not big enough, fast enough, and doesn’t cover well. In my book, Brown, James, Brock and possibly Clements are gone.

That leaves my projected 2011 CB roster —
Starters: Joseph and Marshall
Backups: Spencer, Culliver, Adams and possibly Clements
Practice Squad: Holcomb

by 49erFanSince1950 on May 17, 2011 11:27 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

A what if question for you guys, as much to start some convo as anything

Would you take any of these and trade/release Tarrell Brown:
Richard Marshall, Josh Wilson, Chris Houston, Eric Wright?

How about these for Spencer:
Chris Carr, Ike Taylor, Antonio Cromarte, Carlos Rogers?

by ChesapeakeBay9er on May 18, 2011 3:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Personally

I’d rather have Spencer and Brown than Clements. Spencer and Brown get beat but Clements loses games.

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

the team would be awefull with spencer and brown as cb's

horrible in run support and horrible against the pass.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 18, 2011 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

2009?

Go back and look at the 2009 game film. Spencer was VERY good back then. I rarely saw him give up a pass.

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't live in the past....

how can there be that much of a decline from one season to the next? Answer: He’s just not good.

by 9thevolution on May 19, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

spencer has been declining his entire career.

clearly there is a downward trend. clements has been steady; you want to rely on a player to be your best cb who will has the potential to be the worst starting cb in the league? does not make sense.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 19, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Grading prospective DBs ...

Our current guys:
Spencer should be retained as a non-starter to see if he can regain his 2009 performance level.
Brown should be gone … gone … gone.

My evaluation of free agents:
A’s — Joseph, Marshall, Wilson
B’s — Taylor, Wright
C’s — Carr, Cromarte, Houston, Rogers

At his best, Spencer would be an A-; based upon last year’s performance, a C.
Brown has never been anything other than a C, at his best.

So, to answer you quiry … I would prefer any of my A’s or B’s to Spencer, and anyone else to Brown.

by 49erFanSince1950 on May 18, 2011 4:08 PM PDT reply actions  

Agree on this List

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

eric wright had a bad year and would not pay sign him after last year, he will probably be overpaid. people want clements cut, what about a paying wright the same amount that clements has been paid but getting the performance of shawntee spencer.

brent grims is also rated about b+ to a-.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 18, 2011 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Marshall is not an A.

He’s a C, and I’m quite sure both Clements and Spencer are better than him

You're not a 49er unless you got a gold star from Trent Baalke. Only "high character" guys get to play for the 49ers. The team is built in the locker room, as we all know.

by BustaTheRippa on May 25, 2011 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

J Joseph is tendered

I like Joseph, but he’s tendered at the highest level. The 49ers would have to give up a 1st and 3rd, in addition to paying him. Nmandi would be the dream, and I like what Ike Taylor would bring as well at what should be a more reasonable price. I’d have Ike and Nate as the starting db’s.

by GB9er on May 31, 2011 4:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

(HERE is a great example of his sub-par play and a consequent stupid decision to try and make up for it.)

how many coaches do not coach this? you get beat with no help over the top, a fast guy, and easy touchdown?
is it stupid to give up the touchdown or stupid to hold and prevent the touchdown? I do not think there is one coach that will be mad at holding on if beat and in fact I would be shocked if any coach does not coach to do the same thing that clements did.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 18, 2011 9:26 PM PDT reply actions  

What about getting beat in the first place?

If you get beat that badly by an Oakland receiver you’ve gotta feel pretty stupid.

(Re the conflicting Harbaugh reports:) If you were to pass Harbaugh's $50,000 bathroom this week, you'd hear raucous laghter. The source? The man himself laughing his face off as he fires off "anonymous" tweets and texts from "sources" to the prominent beat writers and media folk.

by Riding The F Train on May 18, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

How so???

Oakland receivers are FAST, that’s why they get drafted. Clements doesn’t have the speed to keep up with a guy who runs that fast.

by 9thevolution on May 19, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

your argument was the clements makes stupid decisions.

that was not a stupid decision to hold onto his jersey. almost every cb gets beat time to time including revis and nnamdi.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 19, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

there was a game when Ted Ginn flat out owned Revis when Ginn was still in Miami. Revis just couldn’t keep up with him and he was getting wide open down field.

by Andrew9erfan on May 22, 2011 3:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's a huge mess

Clements is average, and if he was making average pay it would make sense to keep him. With his contract he has to go.

Spencer has had games in 2009 where he looked legitimate, but last year he looked lost.

Brown, James, and Brock shouldn’t be in our long term plans for the secondary.

At the same time, it doesn’t make sense to pay top dollar for a FA CB that will be washed up just like Clements by the time we are a legitimate contender. The young guys that are good will be in the long term plans of their current teams and won’t see FA once the lockout ends.

Adding any of the guys who are left just limits the amount of playing time we can give our young corners and delays their development.

Given our current state, I’d say cut Clements, start Spencer and let Adams, Culliver, and Holcomb fight it out in training camp for the other spot.

Bite the bullet and accept the growing pains.

by Ougadas on May 19, 2011 8:09 AM PDT reply actions  

A huge mess? Absolutely!! But why throw away a season by playing rookies if you don't have to?

Why not start two veteran free agents (Joseph and Marshall) at a reasonable cost (versus Nnamdi, who will be too expensive), then give the rookies decent playing time, allowing them to develop without putting the whole burden on their backs? Seems to me that this approach allows to “have our cake and eat it too” by bringing the rookies along without putting too much pressure on them. When the Joseph / Marshall contracts run out, the “rookies” should be ready.

by 49erFanSince1950 on May 19, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well for one thing

Joseph won’t make it out of Cincinnati. He wants to be there, they want him there, and with Palmer and the Drama Twins likely off the payroll they can afford to keep him. The only reason he isn’t already off the market is the lockout. As soon as it lifts we’ll hear news of the deal.

Richard Marshall sucks. He can’t cover anyone. If you’ve watched any Panther games besides the one where David Carr made him look like Champ Bailey for a half, you’ll understand why. His receivers almost always have separation and catch the ball without contest from Marshall. The only thing he does halfway decent is make the tackle after he gives up the catch.

If the worst team in football is willing to let a young cornerback walk, that should tell you something.

Second — playing time at nickel back is excellent experience — if you want the guy to be a nickel back. If you ever want a guy to be a CB, you have to give him game reps at CB covering the opposing #1 or #2 WR.

by Ougadas on May 20, 2011 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion ... I don't agree with yours.

1. Joseph is not locked into the Bengals.
2. Is he better than Nnamdi? Obviously not. But, Marshall is certainly no worse than Clements and/or Spencer.

by 49erFanSince1950 on May 20, 2011 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then explain why.

Why wouldn’t the Bengals spend the money to keep a great young cornerback who wants to be on their team now that they can easily afford him?

How is Marshall better than Spencer? What does he do better? What do you see that is not only better, but so much better to be worth the FA premium we would have to pay?

by Ougadas on May 21, 2011 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ok so if we look at it like that

and I can see it as far as Joseph and Marshall, then that leaves us with Josh Willson, Chris Houston, and Eric Wright. I’m kind of in between you and “50”. I would like to see us get one FA and let the other guys have a chance to play. I’m almost for a semi-complete wipe at CB. Get rid of Brown, get rid of Clements, get rid of James and possibly Brock (can he go PS?). Get Josh Wilson, have a CB team of Wilson, Spencer, Adams, Culliver and Holcomb. Be willing to bring Reggie over if we can keep Dashon or even better get Weddle. If we could snag Wilson and Weddle in FA then put Reggie as primarily at CB, and have him be a floater, pretty much always on the field. And then have a S corps or Weddle and Mays. Yes it would be young as all get out but it would have some good players and they could learn as you noted.

Wild I know but it’s an idea.

by ChesapeakeBay9er on May 20, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

clements is better than spencer.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 20, 2011 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its about the green

Clements may or may not be better than Spencer but his contract going foreward is too onerous versus his value.

by ChesapeakeBay9er on May 21, 2011 2:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would be on board with that.

If we add a guy I want to see him reasonably priced and with room to grow better at the position.

by Ougadas on May 20, 2011 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Broaching another subject that F Train hasn't gotten to yet

(Apologies for jumping the “train” F Train, but in a way all these are linked together) D-Line. This kind of worries me a bit. And here’s my reasoning:
A) We have 3 guys that may be wanting more than they are “worth” or be getting big contracts that we can’t or don’t want to match from other teams when the FA scramble begins.
B) Based on A we could easily lose Franklin. That puts us with current options of Soap and RJF.
C) Soap for all we b..complain about him..is good at holding his end against the run.
D) RJF I like for numerous reasons and he could turn out as a good NT or even DE.
E) Pulling Soap of the DE position to play NT means we have the following current choices to take over that position:
     1) McDonald – More plays the type of position that Smith plays and really not that great against the run.
    2) RJF – That puts him off the NT rotation if Soap gets hurt or doesn’t pan out as we want.
So that makes me very worried about the immediate future of the DL and also when we take into account the age of Smith and even Soap into consideration that brings about some long term worries.

Offering up some ideas to chew on (and possibly spit out) (Majorly with a look at pickups..ie FA/UDFA)
1) Get Brandon Mebane for the NT position – Yes he’s a 4-3 DT but he has some skillz
2) Bring in Blaine Sumner and see if he can “RJF it”.

Tossing this out there to see what the “community thinks”

by ChesapeakeBay9er on May 22, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well I would like

to bring in Sumner.

But the reality is that this year Franklin has us over a barrel and we have to pay him.

If we move Soap to the nose RJF can step in at DE, but we will have no depth at those two positions.

If you run a 3-4 you don’t go into the season with “maybe can do it” guys on 2/3 of your line with no depth behind them. That is suicide.

by Ougadas on May 22, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

the thing about franklin was that he only works hard in a contract year which I think is the main reason why the niners have not resigned him. if some team offers him alot of money upfront or guaranteed he is gone, may not be the biggest contract for him to leave.
that would leave the signed d-line players of only soap, justin smith, RJF and, tukafu.
RJF,SOAP, JUSTIN SMITH does not sound that bad to me. two UDFA rookies as back ups would do a season and would set up next years draft maybe for a high pick D-lineman. personally I think RJF would be better at DE to and soapaga would be better at NT. the biggest factor that does not have me worried about the d-line is the d-line coach.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on May 22, 2011 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

the thing about franklin was that he only works hard in a contract year which I think is the main reason why the niners have not resigned him

Proof?

You're not a 49er unless you got a gold star from Trent Baalke. Only "high character" guys get to play for the 49ers. The team is built in the locker room, as we all know.

by BustaTheRippa on May 25, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

He struggled early on, presumably because he wasn’t in training camp. Not only was he not required to be there, I fon’t blame him for not being there. He wasn’t under contract so if he got hurt, he was sol. As the season progressed, he played pretty well.

by Andrew9erfan on May 27, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope they can restructure the contract , to work for both side's ...

… and love the thought of Harbaugh when stated , hey we’ re gonna throw the ball’s out there and let them compete ,Here’s to the 2011 season ( If’n there be one ) let the best man WIN …!!

I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!

by Edggy on May 19, 2011 8:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Clements isn't bad, he just isn't great. And he is NOT responsible for those losses.

I completely agree that our secondary could improve. But better pass rush and more importantly, improved Offensive play could greatly improve our current D. I think, to blame any of those initial losses “single handedly” on Clements is highly misplaced.

The lowest (best) average points allowed per game by any defense in 2010 was Pittsburg with 14.5 points allowed per game. The first 6 games, our offense averaged about 13 points per game. How are we supposed to win games if we can’t put points on the board? Our D allowed only 21.6 per game, despite the offense consistently turning over the ball in horrible field position (or allowing opposing Ds to score while the D is on the bench) and being in the bottom 10 in time of possession. Blaming any part of the D for our losses, including the secondary, is a stretch. The O was our Achilles Heel last year,. Blame coaching, QBs, O-line, whoever. But the D is the only reason we stayed in most of those games. They faltered in a couple games, but they kept us in most of them as well against some formidable offenses.

/offsoapbox

by AKinferno on May 28, 2011 1:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Don't forget

A new d-coordinator that isn’t a sissy who plays coverage 90% of the time is almost a certainty to improve the defense.

In terms of pure talent, i think we’re just barely in the top 10 in NFL, just been held back by horrible coaching and an inept offense.

You're not a 49er unless you got a gold star from Trent Baalke. Only "high character" guys get to play for the 49ers. The team is built in the locker room, as we all know.

by BustaTheRippa on May 28, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

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