49ers Post-Lockout Free Agents: Who Should Be The First Call
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 12:01 PM PDT
in 2011 49ers Free Agents
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PrintAs more and more positive news flows in regarding the current NFL lockout, ESPN has begun posting a variety of pieces related to the upcoming season. I say ESPN because then we can blame them if this thing blows up in the coming days. In the meantime, Football Outsiders put together a post for ESPN looking at the first move each NFL team should make once the lockout ends. For the 49ers, they suggested that signing Alex Smith was a fait accompli and thus looked at the move after that, re-signing Dashon Goldson:
During the brief period when the lockout was lifted, the 49ers showed that quarterback Alex Smith is in their plans for 2011 by giving him a playbook. Re-signing the former first overall pick appears to be a fait accompli, which allows the 49ers to turn their attention toward re-signing Goldson, who has 174 tackles, three quarterback sacks, three forced fumbles and five interceptions as a starter the past two seasons.
I know not everybody here will agree with this assertion. So, if you were running football operations and had to make the first phone call after taking care of Alex Smith's one year deal, who would you call? You have to make that first call to somebody on the free agent list, so who would it be? After Smith and Goldson, you've got a whole host of names:
1. Aubrayo Franklin
2. Ray McDonald
3. Takeo Spikes
4. David Baas
5. Demetric Evans
6. Will James
7. Travis LaBoy
8. Barry Sims
9. Jeff Reed
10. Brian Westbrook
11. Tony Wragge
These names aren't in any particular order. For me, the first call is probably to David Baas or Ray McDonald. Baas wasn't the ideal center last season but he took some solid steps forward considering he hadn't played the position since college. McDonald is a guy who could be brought back but wants to be shown some love before that will happen. Aubrayo Franklin is a tough one for me to figure out given that I think somebody will back up the Brink's Truck for him. Once this lockout mess is figured out, teams will have a day or two to chat with their own free agents. They'll have to optimize those phone calls.
Who is your first call?
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i would lock up Aubrayo before i did anything
3-4 D is useless without its nose
Franklin and Lawson are as good as gone
bidding war on both.
Most important call could be the renegotiation with Clements.
by whistlingmountain on Jul 24, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
good point
Forgot to mention that. That might very well be the first call.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think both are gone
I think it’s going to be one or the other but not both of them and of the two Franklin is by far the most important.
I had heard that Lawson is pretty upset with the FO, becasue they haven't offered a contract
So why even try? Bottom line, if you can’t gt to the quarterback, you aren’t a good OLB.
As for Franklin, I hate to say it, but good teams don’t resign old players to big contracts. They just don’t do it. WWTPD? What would the Patriots do? They’d let him walk, rather than tie up a huge sum of money to a guy who’s productive days are numbered.
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you know how NT contracts work?
Vince Wilfork—5 years $40 million. Age 29
Casey Hampton—3 years $21 million. Age 33
Kris Jenkins—5 years $30 million back in 2008. Age 29 when he made his deal
Franklin is only 30, plus has the benefit of only a few starting years. He didn’t start until he came to San Francisco because he was being used as an end in Baltimore. He’s got low mileage and a deal somewhere between Jenkins’ and Wilfork’s would be just fine and completely justified.
by smileyman on Jul 24, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
The FO does not view Franklin as worth the money
Sopoaga and RJF are acceptable replacements in the view of the front office. This makes Franklin expendable. This is especially true if the FO sees a line composed of McDonald, Sopoaga, Smith as preferable (with cost factored in) to a line that is Sopoaga, Franklin, Smith. If you can only keep either Franklin or Mcdonald (which seems like the case) then they are keen to take McDonald.
Franklin is pretty good at his position, but I think that the team would have selected BJ Raji, had the Packers not done it a pick ahead. I think the cost/benefit analysis in the team’s eyes is that they can likely find a younger and more suitable player for the position in the draft, if Sopoaga/RJF don’t work out.
As to the mileage point that you made, I would remind you that he doesn’t have the mileage because he wasn’t good enough to start in New England. He’s had some good years in San Francisco, but that does not change the fact that he is not a prototypical player, a 30 year old playing a physically demanding position, and doing it while being significantly smaller than the ideal. Great! I love him! I don’t think that the team wants to get stuck holding the tab on him.
Wilfork and Jenkins were both better players than Abrayo, Wilfork pretty obviously so. And what are you doing talking about Kris Jenkins contract as a reason why we should sign Franklin? Quick question: how’s that contract working out for the Jets? Hey, maybe we can sign him, now that he’s retired!
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
How do you know the FO doesn't view Franklin as worth the money?
They’ve made absolutely no statements either way regarding Franklin, RJF or Soap. If they have I’d like to see the links to said articles.
You might not think he’s worth it, but that’s an entirely different thing.
And there’s no way the team would’ve picked Raji, not when Crabtree was available. Even if the Packers had gone with someone else that year (say Maybin or Orakpo), Crabtree would’ve been there and there was no way we were passing him up.
As to the mileage point that you made, I would remind you that he doesn’t have the mileage because he wasn’t good enough to start in New England.
Franklin never played for New England. He played for Baltimore, and he was used as a DE, not a NT, which is why he didn’t get playing time. The NT for Baltimore while Franklin was there? Haloti Ngata. There’s not going to be anybody who’s gonna beat him out.
He’s had some good years in San Francisco, but that does not change the fact that he is not a prototypical player, a 30 year old playing a physically demanding position, and doing it while being significantly smaller than the ideal. Great! I love him! I don’t think that the team wants to get stuck holding the tab on him.
This tells me that you really don’t know anything about nose tackles in the NFL.
Ngata—27 years old 350 lbs
Wilfork—29 years old 325 lbs
Hampton—33 years old 325 lbs
Franklin—30 years old 317 lbs
Jay Ratliff—29 years old 303 lbs
In other words there’s no issue with either Franklin’s age or his weight. The average starting nose tackle in the NFL is somewhere around 28 or 29 years old and around 320-325 lbs. Franklin’s listed weight of 317 is inaccurate (he’s put on muscle this offseason) and not that big a deal.
Wilfork and Jenkins were both better players than Abrayo, Wilfork pretty obviously so. And what are you doing talking about Kris Jenkins contract as a reason why we should sign Franklin? Quick question: how’s that contract working out for the Jets? Hey, maybe we can sign him, now that he’s retired!
I’d argue that neither Wilfork or Jenkins is better than Franklin. As far as Jenkin’s contract it was to show an example of a recent contract for a nose tackle to show what the average pay is. You really want me to go through every nose tackle in the league to show their pay, age, and weight? Because I could (and I have in the past). Franklin is actually both the prototypical size for a nose tackle, as well as the right age for a nose tackle.
He’s also regarded as one of the top free agents in the league in that position. There’s a reason he was franchised last year, because we would’ve lost him to free agency had he not been. I’m amused that you think Sopoaga would be a legitimate replacement for Franklin given that he’s only one year younger than Franklin is yet Aubrayo is supposedly to old for the job. RJF’s listed weight is under 300 lbs, yet he’s supposed to be a replacement for Franklin at that position? According to your logic he’s far to small, given that he’s a good 22lbs lighter than Franklin’s listed weight and Franklin is supposedly too small for the job.
I really have done my research here—trust me when I say that Franklin is neither too old, nor too small for the job and that a contract of around $7 million per year is about right for him.
by smileyman on Jul 24, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
I wouldn't say he isn't worth investing the money, I would say that what Soap is making has more to do with it.
With nearly 6 mil invested in him keeping Franklin becomes difficult.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
Yep great point
It seems that the Salary Cap doesn’t include dead money this season. Would you prefer it if the Niners cut Soap, re-signed McDonald and kept Aubrayo? I think I would.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I definitely would, just because Franklin is worth 7-9 million before Soap is worth Justin Smith money to play DE.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
Okay, wow.
I give, I give.
Sorry about the Baltimore thing. He wasn’t good enough to play DE in Baltimore…
I guess I can concede on the size thing too, except that despite claims of new found muscle, I only know what size he’s played at in the past. I would argue though that size is important at that position, and that he has been playing at a less than ideal weight.
As for Franklin being not as god as Wilfork or Jenkins, I would encourage you to look at their stats. But I’m sure after bagging on me for not doing research, you’ll now bag on me for believing those lying statistics.
I would refer you back to my original post, in regards to age. I’m not saying that he’s too old to play ball, I’m saying that good teams should refrain from signing older players. I should have been more specific to non standout players. Good, but not great players. The ceiling on Franklin is likely set where it is, I’m encouraging the team not to engage in a bidding war for an older, non-standout player. Since you find some of my points “amusing” (nice tone), I’ll note that in this post you specifically mention that he was franchised last season by the team because they likely would not have been able to re-sign him! What in the wide world of sports has changed exactly?! Nothing! The team still would rather not get in a bidding war for a player whom they obviously view as not good enough to sign to a long term contract in the $7 million range. The fact that he had the franchise tag placed on him should indicate to us that the front office is not interested in signing him to a long term contract.
And I’m sorry, but Jenkins’ contract proves my point. It made more sense to the Jets in 2008 than it makes to the niners in 2011. Look at how that worked out.
Trust me when I say that getting into a bidding war over a player with the likes of the Redskins is never a good idea.
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Again you're showing your ignorance about the position of NT
he has been playing at a less than ideal weight.
He plays at about 5 lbs less than the average weight of the NT in the NFL. How again is that less than ideal?
I’m saying that good teams should refrain from signing older players.
Did you ignore the list of older nose tackles that I posted? 30 is not old when it comes to linemen in general and nose tackles in particular.
The ceiling on Franklin is likely set where it is,
Franklin was easily top 5 in the league last season for nose tackles, despite having an off year from the previous season.
The team still would rather not get in a bidding war for a player whom they obviously view as not good enough to sign to a long term contract in the $7 million range
I’ve still seen nothing from you to back up your assertion that the team does not view Franklin as either a top priority or good enough for a $7 million contract. The FO clearly viewed him as good enough to slap the franchise tag on him last year despite the tag being exactly that $7 million that you claim he’s not worth.
And I’m sorry, but Jenkins’ contract proves my point. It made more sense to the Jets in 2008 than it makes to the niners in 2011. Look at how that worked out.
The Jets had more options at that position than the 49ers do. Who’s going to replace Franklin if we let him walk? You haven’t addressed that. Sopoaga is under 300 lbs and is almost as old as Franklin without the experience. RJF is bigger than Soap but smaller than Franklin. He might be able to grow into that position but he’s still young.
The fact that he had the franchise tag placed on him should indicate to us that the front office is not interested in signing him to a long term contract.
Because teams never franchise tag players that they don’t intend to sign to long term deals. Franchise tagging is simply a way for a team to A.) Make sure that the player wasn’t performing spectacularly due to it being a contract year, and B.) A way for for teams to buy more time to negotiate a long term deal.
Trust me when I say that getting into a bidding war over a player with the likes of the Redskins is never a good idea
I never suggested getting into a bidding war. I’ve simply said that $7-8 million per year is a good contract number for Franklin with a 3-5 year deal. If the Redskins want to pay him $9-10 million per year they’re welcome to it.
The stats issue is a whole other post, because I can also show that Franklin is regarded as a top NT by more than just 49er fans and more than just me.
by smileyman on Jul 24, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Okay, we can talk when they sign him, or not.
You are very smart.
But
They aren’t going to re-sign Franklin.
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
You'll get it when they don't sign him
I think you’ll find that they point was that they wouldn’t tie up large sums of money to re-sign Franklin. I think you’ll find that to be the case.
If the 49ers and Franklin were going to come to a contract resolution, that would have happened by now. I’m sure the team would like to keep him, I am equally sure that they do not want to keep him at the price that he is willing to play for. If he was, he’d have a new contract.
So I guess that you could say that the evidence is that they haven’t signed him yet. At this point, something tells me that he doesn’t sign in the period available for teams to come to contract terms with their own FA’s. I don’t think that the 49ers are going to be major players for him once he hits the open market.
Unless you thought that they would? I’ve heard no evidence of that.
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah they haven't signed him yet
because there’s been a lockout on. And $8 million is not a large sum of money for a NT.
And the lockout last year?
or the year before that?
or anytime in between?
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Franklin
They were spending their money locking up the young guys. And even if they don’t re-sign Franklin it doesn’t mean they won’t try and work out a deal in the day or two before free agency opens up to the rest of the league.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Alright guys, I guess I'm done around these parts
Protip: so is Franklin
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
comments
Sorry if it appears like piling on. I didn’t meant to do that. Just wanted to make my own thoughts clear.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
they franchised him
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
whats wrong with this guy?
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
In all seriousness
if you don’t like defending an unpopular opinion don’t make it.
I’ve been jumped on plenty of times, and so have most of the regulars here for opinions and statements that have been made. If you don’t want to defend them don’t make them.
It feels like football time
Harbaugh will find a QB and he will succeed.
by goatfather on Jul 24, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol
i didnt realize i was going to start such a shit storm!
swearing
Just a reminder that swearing isn’t allowed outside of game threads.
by David Fucillo on Jul 25, 2011 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
yes
Swearing is allowed in game threads because I look at that as instantaneous reaction as things happen. In these other threads it’s not about responding to an interception or big play. Rather people can stop and think about what they’re saying.
by David Fucillo on Jul 25, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
franchise
Doesn’t meant they couldn’t work out a new deal. Not say they weren’t trying, but the tag doesn’t preclude a long-term deal.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Jenkins was already falling apart before going to the Jets
His stats also look prettier because he played DT in a 4-3 defense with Carolina.
You are burying yourself in a hole here taking about NTs.
sd377 wants to ban me for unleashing the Kaepernick Supernova Gamma Ray
Brian Westbrook.....
hahah just kidding…i am thinking Baas or Franklin, winning starts in the trenches
McDonald
As much as I think Sopoaga would be a huge step down from Franklin, I think it’s pretty much as good as done.
We’ve got to have somebody step into the other DE spot, and I’d rather just overpay Franklin than overpay any of the FA DEs on the market. I’d hope that McD wouldn’t be a hot commodity and we could get some value in a new contract with him.
I don't think McDonald will be a hot commodity
it’s been a few years since he started, though I think he’d take less money to go to a team that would start him. I really want to see him get his chance this year, that’s for sure.
I think the team could resign Franklin if they wanted to—but they couldn’t resign both Lawson and Franklin.
From what I'm hearing, training camp and free agency are likely to open on the same day
Which is what makes this whole thing so complicated. As much of a given as Alex’s new contract is, you need to get that signed ASAP. Kaepernick too, because otherwise you are opening training camp with Carr as your only QB on the roster, and you may as well not have camp, if that’s the case.
It also means that the guy that called the defensive plays the past two years, is going to be a must-sign as well. So Goldson has to be in the mix there.
Because you lack any real option at center behind Baas, he goes next. You need your center in camp.
McDonald, and LaBoy come next, because you want them on your squad, and don’t want their price tag getting pushed up in free agency.
Takeo is next, and after that, who really cares?
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 12:43 PM PDT reply actions
training camp/free agency
I’m not quite sure how it’ll end up playing out because of this: Teams can report to camp 15 days before their first preseason game. The first preseason games are August 11, 12, 13, 15, which means some teams start training camp before others.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm going off what ESPN is reporting on expected dates for implementation
So far they have free agency and training camp openings both happening on either Friday or Saturday. The 49ers were expecting to open camp on Thursday, the 28th. Their first game is scheduled for August 13th. So, it was already scheduled for 15 days out.
Again, who knows, but I think that there’s a strong chance that free agency and training camp opening coincide. The NFL is likely very wary of changing the dates on those preseason games.
by Mertons_merkin on Jul 24, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Baas
I think continuity of the O-line, especially in a new system, will help greatly.
After that, Spikes and McDonald.
I make the calls in the following order ...
1. Alex Smith
2. David Baas
3. Ray McDonald
4. Takeo Spikes
5. Aubrayo Franklin
6. Manny Lawson
7. Nate Clements
8. Travis LaBoy
9. Barry Sims
Pass —> Evans, James, Reed, Westbrook, Wragge
by 49erFanSince1950 on Jul 24, 2011 1:22 PM PDT reply actions
I actually would do Baas and Lawson
I really think we could be a dangerouse team if we could have Lawson and A.Smith as our OLB Lawson great at coverage. Smith could be our Pass rusher Baas is very important cause we cant down grade the Oline we have spent to much money and to many high draft picks for it to not be a great line.
cppeter
I saw A. Smith and my mind immediately translated that as Alex Smith
too many Smith’s on this team (though Alex can throw a block if needed)
1. Alex Smith
2. Davis Baas
3. Nate Clements
4. Takeo Spikes
5. Ray McDonald
6. Dashon Goldson
7. Manny
I think Aubrayo Franklin is going to the Redskins for sure, especially now that Kris Jenkins has retired. I heard they were especially high on Kris and Cullen Jenkins, but now will certainly want Aubrayo
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Both Lawson and Franklin will be in high demand
There aren’t that many 3-4 NTs out there. I would really like to see us resign him because I don’t know that our other options are going to be good enough at that spot.
Franklin is a top 5 NT in the league without question...
At 30, isn’t that old for a NT. In fact, only starting 4 seasons, one could argue he is quite young for a NT in terms of playing time. I can’t see how a deal at 4 years at 6 million per season is overpriced, that some think is too much. I just think the Redskins will pay at least 9-10 million per season, and will be too much for the FO. I would argue, placing the Franchise tag on him this season wouldn’t have been that bad a choice either…
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
A good deal for Franklin would be 7-8 million per year
any more than that and he’s getting overpaid.
I think the franchise tag for a tackle this season was 11 million
I think that would have been okay, for a one year deal. Short term flexibility, and gives the new coaching staff a better chance to look at Ricky at NT. A veteran NT for a new D coordinator is the most important player for a team running a 3-4 imo
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I wonder what the rules for franchise tags will be?
I know that the franchise tag will now be a percentage of revenue, not an average of the top 10, but I don’t know what percentage. I also don’t know how often a team can franchise a player.
My list in order of priority
1. Alex Smith
2. Aubrayo Franklin (our options here are incredibly limited)
3. David Baas (really he and Spikes are tied)
4. Takeo Spikes
5. Ray McDonald (give him his starting DE spot. He’s earned it)
6. Manny Lawson
7. Dashon Goldson
9. Nate Clements (redo his contract)
10. Barry Sims (we need more veteran presence on the offensive line especially with Heitman gone).
That's a good list
I can’t see the team re-signing Lawson, purely because teams who run the 4-3 will definitely highly be interested. I can see the Rams, who are over 30 million under the cap, making a huge play for Manny. Their outside linebackers are horrible, and Lawson next to Laurinitis would be a massive upgrade for that team in coverage especially.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Yeah. Lawson would be really good in a 4-3 I think
where he wouldn’t have to rush the QB as much. I think his height really limits him as an OLB in a 3-4
I'm not sure on Sims
I really wasn’t impressed with his play last season. I’d rather give Boone a shot as the back up and swing tackle
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
by teekay on Jul 24, 2011 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sims is perfectly fine as a backup
and Boone is far too untested to be our backup. The 49er offensive line seems to be cursed with the injury bug, so I’d much rather have Sims step in as a starter than Boone.
Yep good point
Only reason I mention it is because Sims’ contract was 2.1 million last season, I think that’s a little too much, Would rather spend 2 million extra to keep Aubrayo and have Boone as back-up. But the continual injury bug is a very good point, hopefully Staley will play all 16 games this season. Last year’s injury break really was unlucky… nothing to do with toughness
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I think its time to take a risk on Boone
He’s def got starter potential.
Harbaugh will find a QB and he will succeed.
He was productive enough to be kept for the amount of times he actually rushed.
Teaming him with Aldon Smith would be the best scenario, considering we are losing Franklin. Take away the NT and the best run stopping OLB, and when you move Soap to NT you open the run stuffing side of one side of the defense from last season. We may begin weak vs the run this year.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
Assuming we lose Franklin of course
If we lose Franklin then Lawson moves way up on the list of people we need to keep.
If it wasn't for the Redskins, and the need for teams to spend 99% of the salary cap this season (if I've read it correctly))
I think we would have had a good chance of keeping either Aubrayo or Manny this season. However, with the new salary cap and with so many teams with so much cap room, I can’t see how Aubrayo doesn’t get overpaid by the Redskins with so few quality NTs in the NFL currently, let alone, available; and teams running the 4-3 needing quality OLBs. I don’t think the Niners will be able to keep either…
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Depending on the price of the tag
If we lose Franklin I think I’d be ok with tagging Lawson to see how he works out in a new scheme.
Surprising given my outspoken dislike of him, but we can’t afford to lose both him and Franklin.
Smiley, do teams have to spend 99 percent of the cap this and next season?
Also, does dead money count toward the cap this season, and further, any season in the 10 year CBA?
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Cap
99% 2011, 95% 2012.
No idea about dead money, but I suspect not since the 99% of cap is for cash purposes.
The rest of the CBA it’s 89% minimum. Again I don’t know how they’re going to factor in dead money.
thanks, it really makes signing FAs very hard this season.
Probably better to wait. The market will be hugely inflated
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Both inflated and also a really short time period
it’s going to be a shark feeding frenzy especially with teams like the Bengals who are way under.
Spending 106 million
With this new agreement the teams must spend at least 106 million. Fooch do the teams have to spend at least this much, this year? If so, wasn’t the 49er payroll around 70 million last year? How are they going to get to 106?
I guess the Yorks will be kicking and screaming to have to shell out 106 million for players.
The payroll is almost at 106 million.
We spent more last season, because P Will’s, Staley’s, Vernon’s and Crabtree’s deals were all heavily front loaded. The team is looking great for the season following this one, with Nate’s contract off the books.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
This
Most of the big money has been given out already to retain our stars. With the rookie pay scale we won’t be paying Aldon Smith a bunch of money (though I think I’d front load half of his contract if I were the FO), leaving us room to negotiate our free agents.
The FO has done a great job with re-negotiating and structuring contracts the past couple seasons
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
this again?
The Yorks have been willing to spend serious cash in recent years. Maybe they didn’t early on but they haven’t been like that in recent years.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't understand it either.
Re-signed P Will and Vernon before their contract was even close to ending. Payroll has been higher than each of the other teams in the NFC West…
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Not true, Vernon would have been a free agent this season and for sure gone with the quickness.
Wouldve been the most saught after free agent above Nnamdi.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
yeah I meant Vernon's was re-signed with a season to go.
That’s pretty early
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Not when the season is in a NEW CBA, no way e could keep Davis.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
1. A Smith
2. N Asomugah
3. Manny Lawson
4. D Baas
5. T Spikes
6. Ray McDonald
This front seven with Asomugah, could get to a QB…
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
I’d cut a lot of players to get to this conclusion:
Moran Norris, P Haralson, D Carr, T Brown, N Clements (restructured), goodbye Goldson, Tedd Ginn and I think that is good enough.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
I'd rather have Joseph than Nnamdi, purely because Joseph is 27 and a 4 year deal will take him to 31.
Nnamdi will be paid in th e 16-18 million per season bracket. The Bucs have so much cap room that the Glazers will be forced to spend. If I was in the Bucs FO, I would restructure Josh Freeman’s contract and heavily front-load it, then they will be competing for years to come.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Joseph isn't going anywhere with all the cap space that the Bengals have.
He will get PAID.
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
yeah good point
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
The only way it happend to where he goes anywhere else is if a team like Tampa
that has just as much room to spend offers a better deal. I dont think the Niners are in any position to be in that bidding war.
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
Yeah the Bengals are going to have to serously pay their players
wonder if Carson Palmer will un-retire if the Bengals give him $15 million per year
Yeah but he's threatened to
and I think he’s serious about it. He hates the Bengals and their organization.
I think his problem is more with Marvin Lewis than it is with the organization itself.
I think he thought at the end of the year after the season they had, that Brown would’ve canned Lewis. When he found out that he was sticking around it pissed him off.
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They have the worst ownership next to teh Raiders, maybe even worse than the Raiders.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
In all seriousness though, they were in the playoffs just two years ago.
I think there are plenty of teams in the league with longer droughts than that.
Its the coach, not so much the organization. His job is to get his players ready. Last year, he lost the team.
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And I think the thing about Palmer is he wants a ring...
I think that is the main reason he wants out…. he’s already set for life with all his cash, assets, and investments.
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Buccs have a lot of young talent they need to retain.
There is no method to the madness of my MOJO!!!
I am so tired of talking about this, who we keep. Who we get. What we are going to do.
GOTV. Vote yes on the CBA. Get the Union back together. Clean up what needs to be cleaned up. Sign the d#% papers. We want our Niners back.
"Moving Forward."
I gotta say
Goldson is good, but not worth huge money, and safety is a pretty easy position to draft someone pretty solid at. Get a corner who hits hard and doesn’t have elite speed, wait for him to drop to the third or fourth round, and nab him. Make Mays the strong safety, and get someone with good ball skills to man the free position.
Goldson is solid, but more replaceable than others, and he’s not a top-5 safety in the league; therefore, we shouldn’t pay him like one.
Oh, and hurt Gore’s feelings, and dump Moran Norris already…goodness.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
That's going a little far.
I don’t want Norris back either but for different reasons. He can lay some heavy hits on linebackers but he cannot catch the ball… he would not be a good WCO fullback. Norris probably has one more so-so year left in him but it should be with a team like the Redskins or Broncos who will run, run, run.
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Owen Schmitt
Enough Said. He did a great Job last year in Philly and Weaver should be back for them this season so Schmitt should be expendable for them,
I'd like the Niners to try and sign Mebane at NT if Aubrayo goes to the Skins,
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
NFL Network
just reported that Nate Clements isn’t expected back with San Francisco. This fits into what i have heard the last two days.
So, it seems San Francisco will be looking for a replacement. My money is on Carlos Rogers, who would come in at about 5-6MM
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:04 PM PDT reply actions
Interesting... I'm surprised.
Richard Marshall is my bet
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Me too
see below
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Cromartie would be ideal
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I am sure
one or a hundred of his kids live in the Bay. That could be a plus
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Ike Taylor will get like 9-10 million per season, and will be overpaid
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I like that option
Not sure if he would be considered “top tier”. I think that list extends to just Nnamdi, Cromartie, Joseph and POSSIBLY Rogers.
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
sources?
I missed it. Did they say anything beyond “our sources indicate” ?
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Sources
They were talking about players that wont be back with their teams in 2011. Each commentator said something to the effect of “I guarantee Clements wont be back with SF in 2011” It was Michael Lombardi who indicated sources
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
while I believe you....
I never take what lombardi, la confora or wyche say. I can see Nate restructuring his deal.
As for the other Corners on the market.
Nnamdi will get between 14-20M a yr average, likely will be front loaded, and likely have an voidable yr, ala Nate’s original deal, which was 8yr 80M, but really will be for 6yrs and like 47M, the last 2 are dummy yrs.
Joseph I can see leaving Bengals. I would to if i was him. That orginization is terrible, plus so much money out their, younger than Nnamdi, I actually would rather get Joseph than any other CB. Though I love Nnamdi, and would welcome him, but only if he doesnt take up like 15M on this years cap. Instead take 8M up front for Joseph, and use the other 7M for maybe a Guard since our RG spot is terrible.
Ike Taylor I think stays in Pittsburgh as long as they get below the cap. I see him also getting a good chunk, even tho he is older.
Others like Marshall, Rogers, etc…. will get good pay days but not like the top 3 will.
But thats my opinion.
I think Rachal is hugely underrated
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I wonder
if he is expected to decline a pay cut. That could be the source that indicates Clements wont be back with SF. It has been noted that if he doesn’t take a pay cut SF will part ways with him. This report as far back as the end of March
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:24 PM PDT reply actions
How much would he cost us to cut? Like with all this dead money stuff or whatever?
I know in Madden (lol) whenever I tried to release him the cap penalty would be like $20 million
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by MichaelClutchtree on Jul 24, 2011 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
This is interesting because I don't think dead money counts against the salary cap this season.
It is also unclear how dead money will count against the salary cap in future seasons.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
it does count
From my numbers from previous years and what MM has reported, we are at about 102M, and if the cap is indeed 120M then we would have, as stated my John Clayton’s sources, 18M which is accurate.
If dead money didn’t count, then pretty much every team would be under the cap further. Dallas, Oakland each have like 10M in dead money. Thus why they are so far over the cap.
I heard rumours that it wasn’t going to count this season. Thanks for clearing that up. Our dead money is quite considerable, which means signing Aubrayo or Lawson becomes even more unlikely..
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I also heard that
I also remember hearing that dead space wouldnt count or it would. They werent sure.
Maybe Im wrong, but from all acounts, it seems it will. I would be happy if it didnt, it would save room for other players.
Yeah, makes things pretty interesting
Our dead money is like 12 million i think…
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I think Kentwan Balmer's dead money figure is like 3 million alone..
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
The dead money (i.e. his signing bonus)
is a sunk cost. We’re going to have to pay that regardless of what we do with him. What we have to factor in regards to keeping him are the following:
1.) His year to year salary (actual money, not salary cap figures)
2.) His level of production
3.) The level of production of any possible replacement for him.
Sadly I’m not convinced that we have anybody on the roster who can replace him, and unless we can nab one of the top 2-3 CBs in FA I don’t think we can find someone to replace him.
If we nab one of the top CBs, then we’re stuck with another big contract and have to figure out if the new contract is going to be worth getting rid of him.
My understanding of the CBA is that performance bonuses are going away (but that may just be for 2011). If teams are allowed to include performance bonuses after 2011 I’d restructure his deal to rely heavily on incentives but actually pay him as much as he’s making now or a little more if he meets those incentives. That takes the risk away while still keeping him around.
he makes 17M
And from my understanding he saves us 14M by cutting him.
Add that with the 18M already under, we would have 32M to use.
14M?
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
LTBE incentives
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
Then he really should re-structure...
I though his base salary was only 7M
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
It is the base is 7m
but LTBE incentives still affect the cap. But I’m not totally sure you should ask AB83 he runs ninercaphell if I remember correctly
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
According to the document sent out by ESPN
in 2011 there’s not going to be any performance based pay, which I assume to mean things such as LTBEs.
I was pretty sure when I first heard he would have to take a paycut,
He would refuse to do so.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet
Mark Herzlich interested in joining 49ers when lockout ends
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:28 PM PDT reply actions
Do you think he will ever reach his potential Drew?
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Would have been a 1st round pick if it weren't for his bout with cancer
Good story, hope it happens!!
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't think e was ever as good as people made him out to be
Was just in a conference with garbage offenses. He’d have gotten schooled in his prime against the PAC10 or SEC
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 24, 2011 7:02 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
great news, he's probably the top undrafted rookie
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
whoever signs ochocinco (besides CIN) should sign herzlich too to show a team how to successfully defeat cancer
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by MichaelClutchtree on Jul 24, 2011 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Does anyone know how much Nate Clements is due this season, and how much of it is signing bonus and roster bonus
Because if his base salary is like 7 million, we might as well keep him… cheaper and better than any alternative we can get in FA, even if he doesn’t restructure
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Clements better than Cromartie or Rogers?
I highly doubt that
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, I meant Cromartie and Rogers will be highly inflated.
I can see huge money going towards Cromarte, Rogers, Taylor, Joseph and Nnamdi. Just saying, 7 mill is not bad for a corner like Nate if other targets become too expensive. Would rather keep Nate for a season, then pursue a corner next season
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Rogers'
poor performance last year pretty much guarantees a price tag of 7MM or less. Cromartie will go where the money is and Joseph is a top five corner, so he will get 10MM+. So, the likeliest option is probably Rogers at the point.
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Rogers might be worth going after
and could probably be had for a decent price. I’m not convinced that he’s a better option than Clements though.
That's a good point,
But with so many teams hugely under the salary cap, I think Rogers will be paid more than 8MM per season at the least. The Niners would have to give him a multiple year deal, and he’s already 30. I’d rather keep Nate at 7.25MM for one season. Nate is also a far better tackling corner, which is extremely important if both Lawson and Aubrayo walk… which seems likely.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Clements
2011 salary—$7.25 million
2012— $9 million
2013—$10.77 million
2014—$15.48 million (This is a voidable year, so it’s not going to happen)
People make a huge deal about his contract but it’s not that bad. Not even top 5 in CB money, and will probably not be top 10 in CB money once free agency settles this season.
Thanks, That's honestly not bad, and is actually pretty cheap for a corner of his quality.
From 2012 onwards, his signing bonus would have been completely paid I think. So can cut him after this season if he performs badly anyways. I think keeping Clements would be the right option then…
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I've been arguing this for the past two years here
every time someone says “Clements sucks and his too expensive!” I get a little upset.
He doesn't suck and his contract is team friendly
However, if there is a possibility to upgrade the 49ers will look into it. I was thinking it would be more like adding a vet like Taylor or Rogers to team up with Clements and make Spencer the NB
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather keep Clements, cut Shawntae and get another vet if we really wanted to sign a vet
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Shawntae was dreadful in run support last season
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Equals
average nickel corner
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that's a great plan
it seemed like people were talking about replacing Clements and I just can’t see why. His contract really isn’t that big a deal this year, and I don’t think it’ll be an issue in 2012 or 2013 anyway and by then we should be drafting CBs to replace our talent pool.
I do like the idea of a veteran on the other side of Clements and Spencer as our NB, because I’m not really happy with any of our backup CBs.
Only problem is, do you think the Niners will be able to fit all three corners into the salary cap?
Would be very tight. It would also mean that Aubrayo and Lawson won’t be able to be re-signed I think.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
The best season of his career still isn't worth 7.5 million
If you put 1 DB on the field at a time as u do with a QB MAYBE.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 24, 2011 6:59 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
So... what contracts do you think Baas, Alex, and the others will actually be offered?
I think:
Alex 2 year deal at 6MM per season,
Baas 4 year deal at 5.5MM per season,
Takeo 1 year deal at 4MM
Ray McDonald 4 year deal at 4MM per season
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
Smith
I’ve got to think Smith gets a one-year deal.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I just think, now that he has received the playbook and has led player workouts, he'll be offered a 2 year deal. I'm probably being optimistic because I want Alex to stay a Niner
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I disagree
Not really sure how having a playbook and leading some random workouts makes him suddenly worth a two-year deal.
by David Fucillo on Jul 24, 2011 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Just the way Harbaugh seems to be so supportive of Alex
Harbaugh appears to really think Alex can be a winning NFL QB. I don’t know if he’s purposefully appearing so supportive in order to get him to stay as he feels there are no better options, or because he genuinely has confidence in Alex. If he genuinely has confidence, a 2 year deal is fine imo if the second year doesn’t include guaranteed money. Win win situation imo
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs in 2012, hopefully! :)
I don't see how he can get only a one year deal
unless you think CK will be ready to be the starter in 2012.
It will probably be a deal similar to what Michael Vick got when he came back in to the league.
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I think Alex wants to stay in SF to prove all the "We want Carr" fans wrong.
I would not be surprised to see him take a deal similar to this:
The first year of the deal is for $1.6 million with the second-year option worth $5.2 million, sources told ESPN’s Chris Mortensen. Vick can also earn an additional $3 million in incentives over the two years of the contract
Vick had to prove himself worthy. If the NIners front office is any good at sales, they may be able to get him to stay with something like this. 1-yr with a 2nd-yr option.
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$9.8M over two years is not the worst thing in the world.
But he will have to earn it.
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And for all we know, Kaep could start in 2011.
Who knows what their expectations of him are. I would not be shocked to see Kaep in ’11, in the regular season
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Alex deal is 1 yearer supposedly
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
so far
To my understanding Alex was offered a 1yr 5M deal.
Baas i expect in the 3.5M range, honestly if its a frenzy and we could be outbid, i wouldnt go over 4M on average, and thats getting too much IMO.
McDonald the same thing. Maybe 3M, not really worth 4M at this moment, as he is unknown as a run stopper, he is primatily used as a Pass Rusher.
Takeo, I think takes a 1yr 3M deal. I dont think his deal will take long, he already likely knows how much he will get. He wants to return, and willis will want him back.
Maybe, but players are going to be hugely inflated. I doubt Baas would be re-signed for anything less than 5M per season
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Over priced
San Francisco isn’t going to give Alex 6MM, I highly doubt that happens. He would only get between 2-3MM elsewhere because he wouldn’t be brought in as a starter. San Francisco has a lot of leverage there. Your are looking more at 3-4MM
Bass isn’t at the level of the Nick Mangold’s of the world. I liken him more to Jeff Saturday or Shaun O’Hara, if that. Saturday is set to make 2.4MM in 2011, while O’Hara will make 3.5MM. Now, Baas is a free agent, so that price tag may jump. But, you aren’t looking at more than 4MM being his market. Of course, there is the “overpay” possibility.
TKO and McDonald seems about right, however, I think TKO may take less to SF can acquire another veteran. He is all about winning
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I can guarantee
that Alex Smith can find a starting job in the league if the 49ers let him go. Teams that would take a long look at him:
Cardinals, Seahawks, Bengals (if Palmer goes through with his threat to retire), Redskins (they’re not going to be having John Beck as their starter, that’s for sure), Dolphins, Vikings, Titans.
All of these teams will be looking for starting QBs and their aren’t that many on the market. Vince Young will be available, McNabb will be available, and Kolb will be available. Now the Titans did draft Jake Locker, but without a full off-season of work there’s not a chance in the world that he’s going to be ready to start and if the Titans do start him they can say goodbye to his development. If they retain Vince Young as the veteran starter, that means one less free agent QB on the market.
$3-4 million is backup QB money and if the 49ers offer that to Alex Smith they deserve to say goodbye to him. He’s worth easily $6 million on one or two year deal in this current market.
by smileyman on Jul 24, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep spot on
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My Call list
1. A. Smith
2. D. Bass (Our only legitimate Center)
3. T. Spikes (it’ll be a quick one because he want’s back)
4. D. Goldson ( Not a huge contract )
5. N. Clements ( Restructure or Cut)
6. R. McDonald (He’s a must either as a backup or starter)
7. A. Franklin ( After we figure McDonald out, we can try and workout Franklin)
8. T. LaBoy ( I like what he did last year)
In other news
Just learned that Chuck Norris got beat once. Bang it here to find out by whom
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 6:30 PM PDT reply actions
wow you are only a decade or so late
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
Our first FA call should be Nnamdi Asomugha
- should be Vincent Jackson. #3 Should be Mankins. Then we can start worrying about resigning the chumps we have as FA’s. I’d include Franklin but the utility we get from him vs his cost and long term prospects makes him not worthwhile.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jul 24, 2011 6:55 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I would only take Vincent Jackson
and thats after we attempt to sign our own FA.
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
I think it is pretty clear
TKO returns to the 49ers. They would be dumb to let him walk and he desperately wants to be here.
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Jul 24, 2011 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
My first three calls would be
Franklin, Spikes, and Travis LaBoy.
Franklin is an extremely valuable piece to that front three… more-so than some realize judging by some of the comments.
Spikes is great for the locker room and moral and is a general out there on the field. Very smart player and would be a key-asset in helping to develop the younger talent. Bowman specifically.
And whether people realize this or not, LaBoy got 5.5 sacks in limited action. If he were to play all 16, there is no question he would be a double digit sack producer. I’d sign him to at least a 3-year. That was if he were to do that (which he’s capable, very capable of) he would be doing it at a small fraction of what the others (with similar stats) would be doing it at. Some folks have said he is average in coverage… well I would take average in coverage if he were putting up 10+ sacks.
I am really hoping for a starting 4 LB corps to look like this:
LaBoy
Willis
Spikes
Smith
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Laboy started 11 games in 07, 7 the year before. His sack total has never topped 7.
He has been held back by injuries to his biceps,ankle, and knee. He missed an entire season. As far as potential goes, yeah, he could be a monster, or he could sit on the IR another year.
Lawson provides coverage, and that is something that we need. Given a choice, I’d keep lawson, and start him. I still think in the right scheme he will put up the numbers. Keep Laboy, but use him blitz packages or something. I don’t think we can afford any more liability in coverage.
Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.
Under the new rules, teams can carry only 2 QB's, right?
Seems as though Carr’s days are numbered. Especially with the reduction in players that can suit up on gameday.
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No, they can carry 3 if they want to
They can dress 46 players, and the 46th player can be anybody. No special rules for the 3rd QB.
Yeah... key word "if".
Carr is not worth it… they may as well bring on a guy like Froman or Van Camp who has future potential if there going to waste the roster spot on gameday; or at all.
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I think you misunderstood and I misstated myself….
can = are allowed to
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two QBs
People could carry only two QBs previously if they wanted to, but most teams elected to carry three. The Patriots used punter Tom Tupa as their emergency QB back in the late 90s and early 00s (not 100% sure on the time). Also I think at one point Indy went with only two QBs.
by David Fucillo on Jul 25, 2011 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Franklin, Spikes, Bass, Sims
After that, Lawson is a guy I think is better than his numbers show (poor utilization). McDonald next. There is no one else on the list I’m interested in. Travis “injured” Laboy isn’t worth the money. Let some other team gamble that he will actually be able to take the field.
And truth be told, my FIRST call would be to J. Joseph or Asomugha.
Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.
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