San Francisco 49ers Rookie Depth Chart Battles
Over at Mocking The Draft, they're putting together a series of posts entitled "Rookie Depth Chart Battles." They look at the various rookies and discuss their competition heading into camp. Amidst the discussion surrounding the player and his competition they provide a percentage chance of winning the battle. Back in mid-May they took a look at 49ers first round pick Aldon Smith and gave him an 85% of "winning the battle." They don't acknowledge the potential departure of Manny Lawson, which I think is a bigger reason Smith would move up the depth chart. He has a lot of raw talent, but the lockout will delay that development while Lawson's departure would hasten his move up the chart.
In looking over the 49ers 2011 draft picks, do you see one particular player moving up the depth chart faster than others? We'll provide some more specific breakdowns as we get closer to training camp but in the meantime let's discuss the entire group.
When discussing the depth chart, I'd say it can cover offense, defense, and also special teams. For example, Colin Jones is likely going to be an immediate contributor on special teams. He plays safety but the team brought him in for his special teams prowess on coverage units. Special teams might be a more limited amount of time and less press coverage than offensive or defensive units, but it will be Jones' ticket to the 53-man roster.
Daniel Kilgore and Michael Person will be battling for offensive line time but it's hard to tell where they'll end up on the depth chart. Kilgore is a potential long term answer at center but if the team signs David Baas to a long term deal, Kilgore will settle in to a backup role for the foreseeable future (barring injuries to the starters of course). The right guard position is the one area where turmoil and talent issues could get Person or Kilgore more playing time. Chilo Rachal is technically the starter but it's going to be interesting to see how quickly that could change in training camp.
Kendall Hunter and Chris Culliver will both likely see a decent amount of playing time as rookies, but it's hard to tell for sure how much they'll earn. Hunter will be battling Anthony Dixon in the backup role and I know there are plenty of folks who think Hunter will quickly surpass Dixon. On the defensive side of the ball, you could make the argument that Chris Culliver might find himself in a similar battle with Tarell Brown and Phillip Adams.
In looking at these two battles, will the lockout potential buy Dixon and Brown a bit more time in their current role? The fewer minicamps and training camp days, the more veterans would seem to benefit. For the 49ers defensive rookies it would seem to be an even bigger issue considering they don't even have a playbook to study at this point.
A rookie who could emerge up the depth chart fairly quickly, particularly compared to the defensive rookies, would have to be Ronald Johnson. While the defensive rookies can't do much more than stay in shape, Johnson has had a chance to work quite a bit with 49ers QB Alex Smith down in San Jose. We've heard about Kevin Jurovich working out extensively as well, but I think Johnson could be the guy who really benefits when training camp gets going. With serious question marks after Crabtree and Morgan (if you're comfortable with those two), Johnson could find a nice little spot for himself. He's competing with Ted Ginn (hands of stone), Kyle Williams (questionable hamstrings) and Dominique Zeigler (question marks on his question marks). I'd imagine the battle will come down to Williams and Johnson, but it's hard to tell at this point since Harbaugh hasn't really discussed his wide receivers to date.
Who do you think emerges with the most extensive playing time as a rookie?
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Aside from Aldon Smith....
I think Johnson and Hunter will see the most playing time. I also think that at some point this season, Culliver will be at least the #3 CB.
this
If RonJon can stay healthy I expect him in a heated battle with Jurovich for slot receiver along with Williams. Then again RonJon will probably end up playing all three WR positions well too with his attention to detail and precision, along with knowing Morton well…again, if he stays healthy.
Hunter is a guy I think shares carries with Dixon and probably get’s some wild package plays where he splits out and runs pass patterns too.
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absolutely
Rookie running backs can make quick impacts, our line should be solid for running purposes, and I think, by season’s end, Kilgore may make it clear that Chilo Rachal is not our right guard of the future.
We should re-sign Baas (Like a _) as our center though; he’s at least serviceable there, and it’s a position that benefits from continuity
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Baas is #1 priority. He and Alex will walk into Marathe's office together and sign their deals with the same pen
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betting they put Heitmann on PUP or IR
but then again, is his salary guaranteed for injury (I’m betting it is)?
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I don't think so,
Base salary is 1.9 million roughly next season, and 600 signing bonus. I don’t know if injury bonuses are guaranteed after a new CBA
I'm wondering if we can put him on IR and then how much of his pay he gets
I’m not a big contract guy, really
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It is a big shame, but I can even see him possibly retiring as this is his last year on his contract
Can’t see him recovering from two neck injuries
probably not but he's been loyal and great over the years
hate to just cut him
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On offense, I would tie him with Smith
Don’t think Alex will be great, just that he’s important this season. But yes, I figure we sign them both soon.
Also don’t know what will happen with Lawson, but it’s a shame we never got much of a pass rush out of him. He’s clearly talented in at least some facets of the game.
And, we need a nose tackle who’s the real deal; whether that’s Franklin or not, it just needs to be someone who can keep people of Bam Bam
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
look for them to try hard to keep Franklin but he'll get overpaid elsewhere
they’ll use Soap and probably grab another DT/NT somewhere to back him up/challenge RJF. I think they keep McDonald, making Evans expendable. Tukuafu is an intriguing player too and I think he could get some looks in pass rush situations and/or challenge McDonald/RJF for a DT spot.
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I think McD has shown legit potential
Agree on Evans being expendable.
I haven’t noticed much from Tukuafu one way or the other; what are you basing the intrigue on?
And yeah, Franklin will get overpaid elsewhere, unfortunately
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Tukuafu has the motor I prize
he’s disruptive and high-energy. If he wants it bad enough I think he could be a nice rotational player as he learns the defense. Plus he’s had a year in a 3-4 with this team, so that should help him.
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Sopoaga will kick inside
Can’t see Franklin being re-signed at his age (although his body hasn’t taken too much as he didn’t start at the ravens)
Agree that Soap could kick inside
But I’d want it to be as part of a rotation, rather than him being solely responsible as NT…not sure he’s up to it, and it’s an important anchor for the 3-4.
Maybe we find the next Aubrayo Franklin on waivers; see who gets cut that intrigues
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Lawson will be overpaid by one of the 4-3 teams
I can see the Rams making a huge play for him
Agree
And honestly, a 4-3 would best suit his style…I think he is actually going to make the 49ers look dumb when he blossoms elsewhere.
And, though it pains me to say, I think the Rams defense is going to be legitimately nasty this year. I hope they DON’T sign Lawson for exactly that reason
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
also Culliver will compete to start
but if Nate remains, there’s little way Cully can overtake Nate or Shawntae in terms of experience so he’ll have to be lights-out in coverage.
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although later in season I can see CC taking over
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I'm just wondering do the 4th and 5th CBs ever see the field?
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
Adams is seriously on the bubble unless they are tired of T.Brown or Nate goes
He’ll compete with Holcomb for special teams plays.
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I was wondering if it was more cost effective to cut Brown instead of Adams.
If the 4th and 5th CBs don’t go on D much then I don’t see why not essentially replace Brown for CC.
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
In the modern passing game,
Nickel and Dime packages are used extensively, especially in Dom Caper’s D. So I’d expect the same with Fangio
I thought nickel is 3 CBs and 2 S
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
yes, can be, or 3 S
Dime is 6 DB’s however you wanna mix them. You do need 4 solid CB’s for sub-packages AND injuries.
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yep, its 5 DBs
and a Dime package uses 6 DBs (usually 4 CBs). A lot of teams use Dime and Nickel packages even on second down now
I use a lot of Nickel in Madden (the ultimate real-football simulator! ha!)
because stopping the run isn’t as bad with a front-six as stopping multi-WR formations with 4 DB’s
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and if P-Willis is in your front six...
he counts as two people anyways
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
it's true
Goldson, Willis, Lawson, Smith…if any one of them get’s near ball-carrier it’s usually a sure-tackle
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Yeah me too haha
But even in the actual NFL, the Packers (I keep referencing the Packers because of Capers and Fangio) for example used Dime packages even on first down. Shields, Williams and Woodson played almost every snap for the Packers. The way that the game has developed, stopping the run really isn’t as important as stopping the passing game
if your DB's can tackle consistently, it makes sense
and if you’re facing teams who like to run off tackle and outside
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Indeed
And while I think Aldon Smith will turn out to be better-than-expected, I fully expect Patrick Peterson to be Charles Woodson 2.0. Dammit
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Pp isnt as smart as woodson
by SanFranciscoKnights on Jul 5, 2011 7:45 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What are you talking about it takes super smarts to score sub 10 on the wonderlic
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
agree entirely Tre, sure-tackling is a must by the corners in dime packages.
That’s why I see us playing a lot of dime packages next season with Fangio. I see Fangio using Nate (if he agrees to restructure his deal ofcourse) in the same way as Capers uses Woodson. Althought Nate isn’t nearly as good in coverage as Woodson, he is a better tackler imo. He can move around and play all over the field. I think a FA CB(whoever) and Shawntae will start at the two corners, but Shawntae really has to improve on his tackling this season. Aldon, I think, will play a mix of both standing up and at the line.
It's the one thing Clements has on Woodson
Better tackling. Damn though, it would have been nice to get Peterson; best of both worlds.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see him or Eric Berry turn in HOF careers. That said, if Aldon gets to double digit sacks, I can live with it
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I think with Fangio as D coordinator,
Getting a pass rusher was essential. A consistent pass rush is always more important than a CB. Having said that, I definitely wanted Peterson to drop to us too, and am probably just saying this, because he will probably be a great player for the Cards :)
Agreed on pass rush being crucial...
And agreed that most times, an outstanding OLB trumps a corner.
However, Peterson is likely to be special, and unless Aldon turns out be a a beast, I am going to sigh every time I see Peterson blow up Crabs on a quick slant…
That, and while I like referring to our team as “The Smiths”, it would have been cool to have “The Patricks”, one of whom IS the best at his position, and the other of whom could well become…
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
But hopefully not for AZ
I hope he turns out to be average. and the biggest surprise bust of the year. The Ryan Leaf of defensive backs.
But, somehow, I doubt it.
And while I wouldn’t have drafted Aldon Smith where we did, no one is paying me to run their draft, so I’m going to hope the people doing it are better at it than I would be.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think that Peterson is that good
Overrated tbh.
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
I think Prince is overrated,
I think Peterson is rly rly talented, and 5th overall was a great pick. A lot of corners bust, so I really don’t think he’s a sure lockdown hall-of-fame player, but I’d have to agree with lott
I would add to that...
That a lot of analysts considered Peterson the best player in this year’s draft.
Even if he were over-rated (and it’s certainly a little early to enshrine him in Canton), there’s still a lot of room for him to be a very good player on a divisional rival
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by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Problem
is, he’s a safety.
He doesn’t have the fluidity to keep up with the best receivers at the next level without committing the assault and battery that NCAA rules allow.
He may eventually get moved...
But I think he’ll still probably be pretty good as a corner. Agreed, however, that you can do a lot more against WR’s in the NCAA than you can in the NFL. We’ll see how he adjusts.
Agreed also that next year’s class is better, but still disappointed that we didn’t manage to trade back, still grab Aldon Smith, and figure out a way to snag Dowling in the 2nd round in addition to Kaep
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 6, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
however,
I really think this season’s draft was very weak at the secondary position, including corner, contrary to most reports.
If we are out of contention for the play-offs early...
I can see Hunter being used extensively seeing as Frank will be a free-agent next season
Open Season
New head coaches tend to want have “their guys” on the field as soon as possible. The lockout should benefit the vets but only for the first part of the season. As has been stated before the guys really hurting are the UDFAs who won’t have training camps to impress coaches and earn a roster spot.
That being said our secondary was on ESPN highlights far to often last season for the wrong reasons. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Adams or Culliver were starters by mid season.
I like Gore a ton
But he’s had some injuries, and in running back years, he’s getting up there. If he gets hurt, Hunter will get a lot of time, and even if he’s healthy, there’s no reason not to work him into the rotation.
I also want Anthony Dixon to use this year to show that he belongs as a player in this league
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
I think Dixon showed he's a good runner, pure and simple
but can he learn enough and keep his feet, drive through the hole, and pass protect? Those are the questions he really needs to answer.
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That's what I mean by player
He does the most obvious thing a running back needs to do; run.
But, you are right; Lawrence Philips inability to pick up a blitz put the cap on Steve Young’s career, and that’s what I meant by belonging as a player; that he does the detail things right, and can be counted on.
Look for Hunter to become MJD part II…
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Jul 5, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Dixon is hungry, but also immature. He may or may no "get it"
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We all know what Hunter has to do in preseason to earn playing time:
P A S S P R O T E C T
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I know Thaddeus Gibson doesn't really count, but I expect him to move ahead of Haralson in the depth chart by the end of the season
Good motor, and very stout against the run
Gibson might prove himself
The Steelers tend to draft well in terms of pass rushers, and they only waived him cause the people ahead of him are proven (more than anyone the Niners have can say).
That said, can we talk about how Navarro Bowman might come into his own this year? Dude is fast, hits hard, and has to want to show people something…
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
Bowman is more suited to playing the Mike,
But I have huge faith in his ability, and do believe by next season he will be more suited to playing the Ted. I don’t think he’ll break through this season because TKO is still playing at such a high level (and TKO will be re-signed), but expect him to improve on last season. I think he’ll have a hugeee season next season
He def projects that way
But regardless, they just need to find a way to get him on the field. And, while TKO is playing at a high level, injuries happen, and it never hurts to have quality depth.
They need to get both Mays and Bowman near the line in blitz packages on likely passing downs…our scheme was ridiculously vanilla last year, and this year, assuming there IS a this year, we just need to send them.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
yeah agree entirely. In fact, I think Mays should play in the secondary more too.
I think the FO will go out and re-sign (overpay in doing so) Dashon, but I really want Mays to start this season. I’m pretty happy with a Mays and Smith backfield. I know Mays has had his difficulties in pass coverage (and difficulties is an understatement), but he has that speed our secondary lacks and I think Donatel will work wonders
I hope so
besides, the mirror safety thing sounds good on paper but Mays is really a box safety at this point or needs man under. You can’t put him alone just yet, maybe ever. He doesn’t turn well.
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He just makes so much sense
as a box safety, frequent blitzer, and as a legit enforcer in the run game. Tre, you’re right; he is incredibly fast in a straight line, but it stiff in the hips, and doesn’t turn well
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
I'm going to abandon this
We’re all saying the same thing :)
Bottom line, I want our defense to be nasty and aggressive this year, and for our offense to play more to its potential.
Oh yeah, I also want there to BE a “this year”
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
Off Topic-John Morton
He’s a rookie w/ our 49ers team. Was doing a little digging since I’m a SC fan to show what type of WR’s coach we have now. Show how he is in practice since our WR’s need all the help the can get.
Here’s Coach in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kyIDqhPnIA&feature=related
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"We'll be the first really global team in the NBA. For me, being the first foreign owner, I want to do my best to invite all the fans for the team all over the world. I think the NBA is worldwide. But other teams [possess a] more local mentality. We are going to create and to build a global franchise to sell all around the world. I think I have a competitive advantage compared to other owners." - Mikhail Prokhorov
he sounds a lot like Trent Baalke
both must eat gravel for breakfast every morning.
Seriously, sounds like a good coch
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ha yea he's not the greatest enunciatating words...
but yea think he freshen things up for us coaching wise especially @ this position
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
"We'll be the first really global team in the NBA. For me, being the first foreign owner, I want to do my best to invite all the fans for the team all over the world. I think the NBA is worldwide. But other teams [possess a] more local mentality. We are going to create and to build a global franchise to sell all around the world. I think I have a competitive advantage compared to other owners." - Mikhail Prokhorov
by Kidd2Petrovic on Jul 6, 2011 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
no I meant the gravel-ly voice...sounds like he was screaming at a rock concert all night long
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my belief
Always thought that a new regime should come in and purge the roster of any player that they deem average. Clearly they were part of the problem last year. Keep the elite guys and the ones who are young (less than three seasons) and jettison the rest. Build the team with your guys. Don’t inherit the problems of the last staff. Create your own success or failure with your team.
by gifts_and_curses on Jul 6, 2011 12:28 PM PDT reply actions

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