Ranking All 32 NFL Starting Quarterbacks: Where Does Alex Smith Fit In?
The quarterback position here on Niners Nation is likely the most discussed topic out of anything outside of a game thread. Even more so when it's discussion about 49ers quarterbacks. Even if it means wasting countless hours talking about and debating on how the 3rd stringer is the future of the franchise. Or arguing about how Alex Smith is a bust or just an average quarterback, or if he will turn in to the next Joe Montana or Steve Young (for a select few).
We will never see another Steve Young or Joe Montana simply because they were one of a kind. And considering that their careers happened back to back, 49ers fans were very spoiled for a lot of years. Even a really good player like Jeff Garcia never quite lived up to those expectations.
The younger generation of 49ers fans may have a better grasp on reality in terms of this position than some of us older ones do simply because they did not experience the glory years which were so great. In many ways, some fans still have those same expectations and will not rest until the ghosts of those two players live in another.
So here we wait.
Since Jim Harbaugh was hired to be the 49ers head coach, some have even speculated that the 49ers would tank the season just so they could draft Andrew Luck who played quarterback for Harbaugh at Stanford. This scenario is about as likely as me getting bitten by a Shark in the desert. Pretty nutty to be quite frank.
Anyhow, it's always a fun topic. It's always fascinating to argue about or discuss. It always seems to be the center of everything that revolves around the NFL.
You may be anxious at this point to see where exactly I have Alex Smith ranked and where exactly he fits in out of all the starting quarterbacks in the NFL. Well then, join after the jump to see where he, and the rest of this years starters could fall in to place.
No. 1 - Tom Brady (New England Patriots): When he is not being pulled around by his hair by his wife, he is the National Football League's best player at the position. There's really no denying it. He's helped his team to 3 Superbowl victories and appeared in another losing to the Giants. He is one of the most accurate players in the league. He is one of the best touch passers the game has ever seen; outside of Joe Montana of course.
No. 2 - Peyton Manning (Indianapolis Colts): Manning is the Oreo cookie eating champion, 1 time Superbowl winner, 1 time Superbowl loser. He has made some pretty entertaining commercials over his career. That entertainment does however come second to his entertainment on the field. He is the most commanding field general in the NFL. One slip up by the defense and usually it leads to six on the scoreboard.
No. 3 - Drew Brees (New Orleans Saints): Whatever happened to that thing on his face? Is it still there? Haven't seen it in a while. Anyway, probably a bad joke but that's all I got. Brees was considered too smurfish (speaking solely on size 'cause he's obviously not blue) to be a successful quarterback in the NFL. He has defeated all odds and then some. Similar to Manning, the defense cannot sleep for one second or he'll light up the scoreboard on moments notice.
No. 4 - Aaron Rodgers (Green Bay Packers): The one thing we know about Aaron Rodgers is that he was not drafted by his hometown favorite 49ers in 2005 and is still a bit bitter despite what he claims. Every time he plays the Niners he tries his best (and usually succeeds) to stick it where the sun don't shine. He plays the game very similar to Tom Brady. Once Brady reitres, Rodgers will most likely take the "belt" from him.
No. 5 - Phillip Rivers (San Diego Chargers): Okay, so he looks a little bit like Sloth from the movie Goonies. So what? That doesn't make him a bad quarterback. In fact, it makes him quite scary when he audibles to, "HEEYYYY YOOUUU GUUYYS!". Anyway, he's pretty good. He throws ball well, he throws ball very well.
No. 6 - Michael Vick (Philadelphia Eagles): How much is that doggy in the window? ...the one with the muzzly mouth? Okay, dog jokes are old. Vick is one of the most dynamic dog fight....ur... quarterbacks in the NFL. He has the ideal skill set that most head coaches would die to have from the position. Running, throwing, kicking, he can do it all. He can even play a bit of free safety when he throws a pick as some of us saw last night as he speared Troy Polamalu in making the tackle.
No. 7 - Matt Ryan (Atlanta Falcons): He's a clean shaven guy. He likes his razor commercials. But he really needs to step up his game if he wants to catch up to Manning (Peyton that is). Matty Ice may not be as cold as Ice Cube or Coors Light but he's pretty cold to opposing defenses. He is perhaps one of the best quarterbacks at going through reads. He now has another target in Julio Jones. Watch out this year for the Falcons.
No. 8 - Ben Roethlisberger (Pittsburgh Steelers): Too many jokes to even consider here. I really can't go there. The dog thing with Vick was pushing it. So I will just be a straight shooter here. When he is outside of the pocket, he is lethal. If you keep him in the pocket, then he is still a bad guy off the field even if he is married.
No. 9 - Matt Schaub (Houston Texans): Matt Schaub is perhaps the most underrated quarterback in the NFL. He is one of the best at reading and dissecting defenses. He also has a pretty good portfolio...just ask Charles. Oh wait, that's Schwab. Nevermind. Anyway, in some ways I feel like he should be higher than 9, in others I feel like he should be lower. It balances out though and here he is.
No. 10 - Eli Manning (New York Giants): Baby brother is not quite as good as big brother. He is a self-proclaimed top five quarterback. Sorry, Eli I just can't get on board with that. Coughlin's train has left without you. You are a turnover machine. When you're not turning the ball over, you're riding your brothers coat tail in making commercials. You're not as funny and without Peyton, you'd be Alex Smith...sorry guys.
No. 11 - Matthew Stafford (Detroit Lions): "Ahhh, my shoulder"... What a tough quarterback. I mean that honestly. He really needs to stay healthy this year. If he can, the Lions can go a long way. Stafford can be a top five quarterback in a few years if he can just take his linemen out to dinner a little more often.
No. 12 - Kyle Orton (Denver Broncos): I really think he ought to go back to the doped up hippie look he had in Chicago. He may not play as good but he'll at least look cool. Orton is not only accurately inaccurate with beard growing, but he is an accurate quarterback. He goes unnoticed more than he should in the league because he just shuts up and plays the game, unlike his jersey selling back up who could be sliding all the way down the ladder to No. 3 on the depth chart.
No. 13 - Sam Bradford (St. Louis Rams): Bradford's new BFF is Josh McDaniel a.k.a "I wish I was Bill Belichick but never will be", the new offensive coordinator for the Rams. He's pretty good at it, so the Rams will have every chance to improve on offense this year. Bradford is only in his second year but shows promise to be a top 5-10 quarterback really soon. In adding Mike Sims-Walker, the Rams now have a larger target with upside for Bradford to look for.
No. 14 - Tony Romo (Dallas Cowboys): 1-800-JESSICA-SIMPSON... someone please pay the teleprompter guy to keep that on the scoreboard for the duration of the game when the 'Boys visit the 'Stick this year. Better yet, have her sing the national anthem. Anyway, he is a good regular season quarterback but when he gets to the playoffs he crumbles like coffee cake. Romo will really need to pick up his game as his time is running out with an impatient Jerry Jones as the owner. He has the skill set to take them to the promise land if his head does not get in the way.
No. 15 - Josh Freeman (Tampa Bay Buccaneers): Holy 'fro Batman!! Where did that thing go man? And did you all know this guy can spin a football on his finger like a basketball? It's not going to get him to the Superbowl but it's a cool trick none the less. I have a really hard time seeing Freeman ever being more than a decent quarterback. In some ways, I can see him being like Donovan McNabb, never being able to get over that hump. But I could be wrong. Time will tell.
No. 16 - Joe Flacco (Baltimore Ravens): Why would you draft the guy from the movie replacements? He doesn't really look like Keanu Reeves but he plays like him in that movie. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Shane Falco, Joe Flacco...whatever. He's okay... but, you know, nothing to flip your lids about.
No. 17 - Donovan McNabb (Minnesota Vikings): How long will we have to wait for this "special season" you were talking about on Twitter, or that video, or whatever Donny? McNabb knows how to hand the ball off and that's good because he'll be doing that to the best running back in the NFL in Adrian Peterson. But McNabb will only be in Minnesota for a short time span. Poooor Vikings fans... CHRISTIAN PONDER IS YOUR FUTURE!!!
No. 18 - Jay Cutler (Chicago Bears): He's Chicago's quarterback (cue T.O. crying).... no, but really, he's actually a pretty good quarterback when he's not throwing interceptions. Hey, but he's tough because Brian Urlacher said so. Cutler will be in his second year of a Mike Martz (get your quarterbacks lit up) offense. He's probably going to take a beating again this year, so we will see how truly tough he is. He's got a long way to go for a Superbowl despite their NFC Championship appearance last year.
No. 19 - Mark Sanchez (New York Jets): GQ Magazine (next month's edition) will feature a cage fight preview between Sanchez and head coach Rex Ryan. I got my money on Ryan. He's got Buddy Ryan blood flowing through his veins. Sorry Kevin Gilbride, you're never going to live that one down. Back to Sanchez.... he's less than average. Just look at his completion percentage. Rex Ryan says, "He's got a loooonggg way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as Peyton Manning" all the while dogging Tom Brady. Listen to Rexie because he likes feet.
No. 20 - Alex Smith (San Francisco 49ers): Is he a bust? Not a bust? Bust? Not a bust? Average? Or bust? Bust? Or Average.... Is Alex Smith a bust? Okay so maybe he's a bust... or maybe not.... or maybe... but he's still starting. Is this his last chance? Or is next year his last chance? Will he finally get over the hump? Or will he slide down the hill? Or will this be his last chance? Is this as annoying as Favre Watch? Or less? Favre Watch? Less? Anyway, Alex Smith is not as bad as some let on, nor is he as good as some let on. I think No. 20 is a perfect ranking spot for him in the preseason. Yes, I watched the Saints game and yes the offensive line was offensive (not to be confused with offensive).
No. 21 - Matt Hasselbeck (Tennessee Titans): His brother's wife will get more televised attention than he will this year. Jake Locker could be the guy by season's end. But it's not very likely. Hasselbeck has a few good game left in him..and I stress few. The Titans have bigger fish to fry than worrying about a quarterback, after all it's just a quarterback.. and I say that in a Chris Johnson type of way.
No. 22 - Jason Campbell (Oakland Raiders): Somebody tell me why this guy has not received an endorsement deal from Campbell's Chunky soup? Terrell Davis' Mom must have exclusive rights or something like that. Campbell is about average and middle of the pack. No less, no more. Okay, well maybe less on some Sunday's. Anyhow, maybe this Saturday, huh? Yeah? Okay.
No. 23 - Matt Cassel (Kansas City Chiefs): Mr. Dawson's Creek... I really don't have much else for him than that because his personality is about as vanilla as his game. He's pretty overrated even here at No. 23. Cassel will get the ball in the general area of guys like Bowe and Baldwin but it will be the ground game that carries the Chiefs as it usually does.
No. 24 - Ryan Fitzpatrick (Buffalo Bills): He's cold. Buffalo is cold. I really have nothing with Fitzpatrick other than his name rhymes with Schlitz-Catholic. Whatever that is. He could be a bit higher by seasons end but it's a long shot. Buffalo still has to address the receiver position. You think they'll give T.O. a call? I don't.
No. 25 - Colt McCoy (Cleveland Browns): The biggest thing in Ohio is Colt McCoy's Texas accent. Things evidently aren't bigger in Texas though because Colt's game is, well, ranked about 25th. At least by my standards. He has some potential and could wind up being a Drew Brees caliber player one day. I like Colt McCoy, I really do. I just think it's going to be a long road ahead for him. Greg Little and Josh Cribbs could provide him with more spark, but it's going to rely on heavy doses Peyton Hillis once again this year. Barring the Madden Curse.
No. 26 - Kevin Kolb (Arizona Cardinals): Is there anything else besides Korn on the Kolb jokes? If so, let's hear them below. I believe that Kolb will be a sliver better than Derek Anderson, or anything that the Cards had last year. The only shot he has is to throw it to #11 every down because we all know Beanie fumbles, and the offensive line is still the offensive line, Daryn Colledge or no Daryn Colledge the Cards are still the Cards and always seem to play the wrong cards. Kolb's not going to help the defense and not so much the offense either. Small sample size, average stats, phat contract, equals recipe for disaster.
No. 27 - Tavaris Jackson (Seattle Seahawks): Ohhh...boyyy!!! Running back Tavaris Jackson will also be playing quarterback this year. The Seahawks have a lot of players to get the ball to and nobody to get it to them. It's either T-Jax who plays like a T-Rex, or Clipboard Jesus. Those are some dynamite options, eh? Scary stuff. Anyway, he'll manage to squeeze out a few games but it was a bad idea to get rid of Hasselbeck. They should've kept him and drafted a quarterback this year. Hey Seattle, Terrelle Pryor is on the market... but... you already have enough wide receivers.
No. 28 - Rex Grossman (Washington Redskins): Grossman showed up to camp looking like Seabass from the Raiders. If John Beck takes the job this week, there's always the possibility of kicking Rexie. I believe that the Redskins will be improved this year but their record will not indicate so. They could very well be in the market next year for quarterbacks like Andrew Luck or Landry Jones. But let's face it, whether it's John Beck or Rex Grossman, it really doesn't matter.
No. 29 - David Garrard (Jacksonville Jaguars): It's possible that Garrard is as good as done in Jacksonville but for now, we'll just assume the job is his. Blaine Gabbert or David Garrard and a banged up Maurice Jones-Drew... This could be Del Rio's last year in Jacksonville and they could very well be the front runners to move to Los Angeles when the time comes. I think it's going to be rough either way. Garrard seems to be going the opposite direction as a coach would hope in his development.
No. 30 - Cam Newton (Carolina Panthers): Icon, entertainer...and hey, didn't look too bad at quarterback this past weekend. Newton will get his first ever start. The new coaches are going to live and die by Cam Newton. Good for the kid. And good luck because the Dolphins will be bringing the heat tonight.
No. 31 - Chad Henne (Miami Dolphins): Getting boo'd at your own training camp has got to be pretty bad. As bad as it gets. Even Niners fans at least wait till game time to boo our quarterbacks. It's really got to be tough being a Dolphins fan. At least since 1972. This is another team that could quite be in the running in drafting a quarterback next year. And not only that, but drafting top 5.
No. 32 - Andy Dalton (Cincinnati Bengals): I feel horrible for big ol' red. He's gonna have a rough road this year. If Cedric Benson cannot stay healthy, the Bengals could quite possibly tie the Detroit Lions record of a few years ago in going 0-16. That franchise is in turmoil and Carson Palmer is going to be sitting on his couch, drinking beer and laughing every minute of the way.
Hope you all enjoyed these rankings as much as I liked writing them, and if not, oh well.
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Comments
Yay Alex , # 20 and moving up , got two bucks that says he's top Twelve by the end of the year ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
I have to admire your loyaly to the man even though he has not proven himself in the last 6 years
Or do I?
It's about having the kind of faith that makes all the "what if's" irrelevant - Jim Harbaugh 2011
Frank Gore has earned his place among the great running backs of the NFL - Pat Willie on NN
So , are we on for that Two bucks , as you can see i did pony up ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Hrmm
I would rather have Hasselback, Cassel, Fitzgerald, McCoy, Kolb, Gerrard, Newton and Henne starting on the 49ers than Alex Smith.
by asmithisaverage on Aug 19, 2011 3:34 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
he would
but then again, he’s not capable of rational thought when it comes to Alex Smith
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 19, 2011 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Considering Alex Smith an average qb with little to no upside is perfectly rational
by asmithisaverage on Aug 19, 2011 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alex IS average
Some of those names are BELOW average.
Saying you’d rather have Chad Henne over anybody removes any credibility to that statement.
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
exactly, no one was disagreeing that he’s average, but I don’t believe that you actually think that since you constantly rank him below other QBs that are below average.
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 20, 2011 4:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Alex is average on his best days
That’s his cap. Generally he is far below average and you know it.
by asmithisaverage on Aug 20, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will agree there has been games he's played above average
But having two games in seven years really isn’t a record I’d run on as him being more than average.
by asmithisaverage on Aug 20, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex is average, actually, on the average. Which means most of the time he’s either above or below that line, and not necessarily actually on it.
That’s how average works.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha cmon man...chad henne?...colt mcCoy?
You cant really b serious right?
Colt Mccoy would be an interesting prospect for the niners (no way the browns will get rid of him)
by ninersince94 on Aug 19, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If McCoy taller and just an all around bigger guy maybe,
But really when I look at McCoy I see a shorter Alex Smith…tons of success in college but not solid starters! Colt has a better chance to pan out, but I wouldn’t bet on it!
Mccoy may be short but so is drew brees, in his 1st season Mccoy has defeated better teams than Alex has.
by ninersince94 on Aug 19, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Colt McCoy is a franchise QB
I have a feeling he’s going to make Cleveland relevant again.
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Aug 19, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn’t go as far as franchise qb just yet maybe if he can show more promise this year then yes. He’s mosdef the best thing the browns have had at qb in a while (other than the 1 anderson probowl season.) I definetly don’t believe that he’s another Alex Smith though.
by ninersince94 on Aug 19, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
he wont be another Alex Smith
He’s playing behind a really good O-Line that is great at pass protection.
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
He’s a very interesting player.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I would too except for
Hasselbeck, Fitz and Newton. Actually, even though my hunch is that Newton will be a bust, I still would have rather have him too.
maaaybe kolb, maaaaybe newton in three years, maaaaaybe hasselback three years ago.
but other than that… really?
Hasselbeck: No. Cassel, maybe. Fitzgerald: Close to a wash. McCoy, long-term, I could see the argument. Kolb: Probably not. Garrard, short-term, maybe. Newton: Wild-card. Henne: No.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
Seeing as you thought Culpepper would come in and we would cut Alex, does it follow we will cut Alex in favor of McCown…?
You can hate Alex all you want, I didn’t want him here this year either, but there is no reason to exaggerate just to make your point known. Your arguments would get a lot more respect with some semblance of rationality.
I also said Culpepper wouldn't sign for league minimum and he wouldn't
by asmithisaverage on Aug 19, 2011 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Says who...
You have a source? If not, I’d just as quickly assume Harbaugh and co liked McCown as the better option
He didn’t, at least.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
Not the same argument, and not even close to worth arguing…
I disagree with this....
Cullpepper didn’t make a fraction of what the NFL min is. Not even close. That’s like going from a regular worker and then becoming the CEO.
by ericalancanty on Aug 19, 2011 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Kew l , then go watch the Titans , Panther's , Cardinals , Browns , Dolphins , Chiefs , Jags and Bills ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
So you love Alex Smith just because he is a Niner?
Seven years is a long time to still be that stupid.
by asmithisaverage on Aug 19, 2011 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
come on
Seven years is a long time to still be that stupid.
That’s uncalled for.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, no...
It’s not. But you keep deluding yourself there’s something to be optimistic about. But don’t look down at your shoes.
no
I’m saying calling someone on the site stupid is uncalled for. You can criticize his belief in Alex Smith without being rude and childish. It’s called common courtesy.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It's okay Fooch
Trolling about Alex by the same people every day gives me a good laugh.
If I couldn’t change something, I’d go whine about it repeatedly on the interwebs too I guess.
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
It is common courtesy not to challenge a fan about his fandom
I thought that crossed the line by a mile.
by asmithisaverage on Aug 20, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
So THIS is a real fan?
It’s nice to know I’m 28 and are WAY more mature than people apparently a lot older than me.
You and your Alex hating buddy find anything in what I said that even said I “love” Alex Smith anyway.
Keep trolling away. It’s great for entertainment.
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
Nope , because he class and works his A$$ off for a organization that never put him in a place to succeed , there's a fine line between jealousy and insecurity , you seem to be on the path to both ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
jealousy and insecurity?
Not really sure what that has to do with anything in this discussion.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Hate...irrational fear, sometime stems from jealousy or insecuity ... as stated by the above numerous times ...!!
.
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
it could also be said that alex smith never contributed to help the team to succeed.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right , prime example last week ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
peyton manning calls protections and hot routes and many other qbs do also. you can also review the tape of the horrible pass with plenty of time to vernon davis. after six years the only constant has been Alex Smith and excuses. I really hope after this year alex will either play so good that he is an all pro or he sucks hard and is not coming back.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
So whats your opinion on Harbaugh as a Coach ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
should I have one yet? seems like a nice guy, was the only person signing autographs after practice in the kid area.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Absolutrly , he was the most sought after Coach in the NFL , you must have some idea of what kinda of Coach he is ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
disagree
Alex has shown that he can lead the team to victory. Unfortunately, the last times he did it (during a time that mattered) was in 2006 in Seattle and again in Denver, then arguably the 2009 MNF game against Arizona). The 49ers do not win those 2006 games at least without his clutch play.
The common denominator? Norv Turner (the last OC/QB coach to really connect with Smith and develop him). I suspect Harbaugh can bring those qualities out of Smith too (I hope).
Jim Harbaugh doesn't just WANT winners, he MAKES them!
He's still better than the QB's listed
If you don’t see that, go rethink who is “stupid.”
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
You can believe what you want about Alex Smith
but he is not better than many of the QBs I listed this year, and the ones he is currently better than are have a higher upside than him and will be better than him in 2-3 years. Seven years is too long to keep believing things will be different this time.
by asmithisaverage on Aug 20, 2011 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well the problem is -
- a lot of QB performance is context dependent. And it’s very hard to separate Alex’s performance (not good) from the context (worst offensive coaching I’ve ever seen, poor line play, etc).
That doesn’t mean Smith is good. But it means that ,judging him on performance, it’d be relatively easy for him to be half a dozen spots too low on a list like that.
I mean, let’s say he really was the 12th-best QB in the league.
How would we know?
Stafford over Bradford
tells me all I need to know about this list. That doesn’t even make sense. He has done nothing.
Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true.
Stafford looks like he should be a fantastic player as long as he stays on the field. He looked really good the little we got to see of him last year.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Stafford has possibly the strongest arm in the league
And has the talent to be the best QB in the league in a few seasons, easily
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
by teekay on Aug 19, 2011 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Sam Bradford deserves to be 13
He has a lot of potential and will probably be very good. But based on what he’s done so far, he’s not that good yet
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 19, 2011 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Sam Bradford deserves to be at 20.
..But that’s not the point of this thread. IMO Colt McCoy will have a more productive year than Alex Smith and is (at this stage in his career) a more “instinctive” QB. Granted, his offensive line looks the part where as our offensive line looked lost last week but will hopefully improve.
We put so much stock in the success of this team in the wrong person and while we all want to see the team succeed it will only be because Alex does just enough to not lose it for them. They are light years away from ‘looking the part’ (in my opinion—responding to this post—“stupid comments” or not).
People talk about how ridiculous it would be to “tank” the season to have a better drafting position but what if our team/offense “sucks” that bad? It’s ridiculous to think our defense can hold teams to zero points for 8-16 weeks and bank on David Akers to kick a 59 yd FG everytime.
This team lost a lot of close games with crappy coaching, no adjustments, etc...
Do you expect that Harbaugh would be worse than Singletary? This is an honest question.
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The Hometown Fan
I don't expect any drastic changes from last year.
He’s inherited an entirely new team — is introducing new concepts, formation etc.. that these players haven’t seen in years if not ever. The Singletary/Nolan phase set us back significantly (IMO).
JH is entitled to a 4-5 yr plan before a significant change can be ‘expected’. It’s unjustifiable to have such lofty expectations of a coach in his situation – no “real” offseason just adds to the situation.
They won and lost a lot of close games with crappy coaching and no adjustments. They had been a relatively close unit with a lot of veterans and similar schematics carried over from the previous year. Going 8-8 to 6-10 isn’t a stretch with even worse coaching, 2 O coordinators by midseason and roster shuffling when they started losing straight out the gate.
What i’m saying is that I am going to afford JH a lot more time to fully install what he thinks is best for the team — once he has a “team” he thinks would best fit his vision. 6-10 wouldn’t surprise me. 3-13 wouldn’t shock me but by no means do I want this team to “throw a season”. If it happens, so be it but there better be some significant improvements if that’s the case.
Last year I thought we would sweep our division
Go 10-6 and head strong into the playoffs. That clearly didn’t happen but I wasn’t the only one with those kind of hopes or expectations.
After going through that kind of disappointment, I’d rather be pleasently surprised at a successful season than emo over getting my hopes too high.
Agree
It's about having the kind of faith that makes all the "what if's" irrelevant - Jim Harbaugh 2011
Frank Gore has earned his place among the great running backs of the NFL - Pat Willie on NN
I agree with you
And if he was on a team I was indifferent about I’d probably be rooting for him to play well, but the only person who checked-down more than he did last year was Mark Sanchez. Granted, I’m not sure the Rams had a WR on their roster last year.
Sam Bradford had about the most impressive rookie season for a quarterback in the last 25 years.
That doesn’t mean his development will necessarily follow, but I’ll never understand the urge to diminish what he accomplished last year. It was a beautiful thing.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I really like him (aside from the whole Rams thing)
And obviously he had a damn good season for a rookie, and especially for the ‘talent’ surrounding him. I’m not trying to diminish what he did, I’m trying to point out that just like Mark Sanchez, his coaches really did well putting him in positions to succeed.
All that said, Sam Bradford will eclipse anything Mark Sanchez could ever hope to be, possibly just this year. I completely agree with Drew that he has plenty of room to move up in this list over the next few years, unfortunately for us Niner fans.
Also, when I responded I missed the whole, after this season shakes down kind of thing…oops. Preseason I think is too high, by the end absolutely.
We're obviously agreeing at this point, so I'm just saying this to embellish the point...
I think a lot of the reality of Bradford’s season gets lost in the mix, too. It wasn’t just that he had no talent around him. He was a two-year college starter (NFL disadvantage) coming off of major shoulder surgery (physical disadvantage) on a team with such little offensive talent (obvious disadvantage). He had almost literally every disadvantage last season. And knowing that, the coaches still put the play in his specific hands just about 650 times (for comparison’s sake, Ben Roethlisberger was responsible for just a hair more than half that many plays during a rookie season in which he enjoyed virtually every advantage).
It was remarkable.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Indeed.
Which is one of the reasons I really dislike Roethlisberger lovers: he’s really not that great of a QB. He’s definitely someone you’d put as “average,” he’s just on a great team with consistent play-makers and a very good franchise.
A QB is great when he can be truly great and put up good numbers with a not-so-great team: that is why Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are truly incredible (I might put Rivers into that mix). They’ve been consistently good even when their offenses were depleted.
Yep,
Shurmur did put him in great position with one of the most boring offenses. It was painful for us Rams fans to watch, but it’ll be worth it. They were smart bringing him in, but 3,500 yards and a positive TD-INT ratio is still no joke for a rook.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
Not really that impressive
It’s easy to avoid interceptions when you are Captain DinkDunk, and the yards stat misses the context that he attempted more passes than any rookie in the history of the league.
I’ll never understand the need to diminish what Bradford did last season.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
He came into the worst franchise
in football at the time who hit one of the worst three-year stretch periods in NFL history and won more games in one year than in those three years combined with arguably the worst supporting cast in the NFL.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
by douchiedude on Aug 21, 2011 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that impressive.
Yup, that’s why rookie quarterbacks are doing it all the time. Wait, only three to throw for over 3,000? I don’t care how lame the passing game was, I just completely acknowledged that. But if it’s so impressive, we’d see it all the time, which we don’t. Most wins by a #1 overall pick quarterback as well on a team that went 1-15 the previous and literally made no big acquisitions in free agency.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
by douchiedude on Aug 21, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
unimpressive*
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
by douchiedude on Aug 21, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s not about diminishing what he’s accomplished. It’s about distinguishing the difference between being really good for a rookie QB and being really good for any QB.
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 19, 2011 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I see what you’re getting at now.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
really?
matt ryan, joe flacco, big ben?
those are all pretty outstanding rookie campaigns, and all made the playoffs. matt rayn is the only one who didn’t win a playoff game.
bradford had a great year, but had the advantage of playing against the worst division in the history of football. that can pad your stats…
(unless of course you’re us, haha)
"Winners, I am convinced, imagine their dreams first. They want it with all their heart and expect it to come true. There is, I believe, no other way to live."
- Joe Montana
by brooklyn49er on Aug 20, 2011 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I firmly believe it to be true, for many of the reasons I mention somewhere in this subthread.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Not really
He threw the ball more than any rookie in history, but he was captain dink and dunk. Only Bradford and Jimmy Clausen had less than 10 yards per completion last year. Good company.
I don’t think it was so impressive because he threw the ball a lot.
He was basically playing for a team worse than the 2005 49ers. He didn’t have the college experience that helps good rookie quarterbacks so much. He was coming off of major shoulder surgery, and had barely played in over a year. And with all that against him, he did what he did. Almost literally every disadvantage.
Anyway, I believe that the context of his campaign made it something pretty incredible, and something that no other rookie has accomplished for a long, long time..
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Again
What did he do?
He threw more passes than any rookie in history and dinked and dunked all year. He was 3rd in leaguewide attempts but only 12th in yards. That’s horrible.
The Rams passing offense is still bad. They were a bottom 3 team in 2009 and a bottom 5 team in 2010 in production per play, and that was with the easiest schedule in the NFL. They were still in the bottom of the league in points scored.
You want to hand out credit for the Rams win record? Look to their defense, which improved from #32 to #9 in production prevented per play and went from #31 to #12 in points allowed.
So what did he do that was so incredible?
I’ve made myself pretty clear, I think, and I never once mention won-loss record so I don’t know why you seem to think that’s important to me.
There’s a great deal of context that goes into understanding why his season was so good. If you’re only interested in the fact that he checked down a lot, then we simply don’t have a point of intersection to compromise on.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
So he came back from an injury?
Hundreds of players do that and have mediocre seasons. What makes him special? Only had two full years of college experience? Lots of guys come out after having only seen the starting lineup their sophomore and junior years and have mediocre seasons. What makes him special?
You say that his team was worse than the 2005 Niners, but that’s just not true. They had a top 10 pass defense and a top 12 scoring defense.
I harp on the win record because the bottom line is that if the Rams went 2-14 again nobody would be talking about him except to say how big a mistake he was. And if their defense hadn’t improved, that’s exactly where we would be.
The injury is a big deal, because he hadn’t played in so long. Please name a quarterback who started anything approaching 16 “mediocre” games in his rookie season after not playing at all for close to a year. It’s a big deal. He came in with a huge, huge amount of college rust, and he played the pro game at a high level for a first year player. It’s a big deal. If you don’t agree, then, again, clearly we have no point of intersection to compromise on.
The fact that he was a two year starter is important because those two years did not include his junior or senior seasons. You correctly say that “Lots of guys come out after having only seen the starting lineup their sophomore and junior years and have mediocre seasons.” Thing is, that doesn’t describe Bradford. The last college football he saw significant time in was his sophomore year. Now, name me one quarterback who started anything approaching 16 “mediocre” games in his rookie season without the benefit of at least a junior year. It’s a big deal. It really is. If you don’t believe that, though, then we clearly don’t have a point of intersection to compromise on.
As for his team being sub-2005 49ers, I was really talking about their offense. Since, you know, Sam Bradford doesn’t play defense. Even then, it may be an overstatement. Steven Jackson is a nice piece (well, so was Frank Gore), but Danny f’ing Amendola was the next most important skill player that Bradford had at his disposal. Those 49ers had Brandon Lloyd. Toss up? Maybe.
The point, though, shouldn’t have been that it was some historically bad offense. It was, more specifically, that this was not the 2008 Falcons, or the 2008 Ravens, or the 2004 Steelers, or the 1983 Dolphins. This was a BAD offense. The kind of offense that rookie quarterbacks do not play well in. This was 1998 Colts territory, with a worse receiving corps. Name me a quarterback who played anything close to 16 “mediocre” games in his rookie on an offense with so little talent around him. It’s a big deal. It really is. But if you don’t believe that, well….
Sam Bradford had the deck stacked so far against him, it would have been a miracle for him to come out of it with numbers that weren’t disastrous on their face. He had disadvantages I’ve never seen a rookie quarterback manage a fraction as well as he did, and he did it all while essentially having the whole offense put in his hands. It was something else.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude.
I’m not a Matt Cassel fan or anything but he had 27 TD and 7 INT last season.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Aug 19, 2011 4:24 PM PDT reply actions
2009 is still fresh in my head and Charlie Weiss left.
He will revert back to 16/16 in that dept.
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The Hometown Fan
Isn't Haley gonna be calling plays this year?
I think he will be fine.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Aug 19, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, could be.
I dunno, they should have more stability now, and Haley did run the Kurt Warner show in AZ, so perhaps he will have more success this time around.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Aug 19, 2011 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Shanahan is going to look like a genius if John Beck works out for the Redskins
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
I dont think anyone can pull that off...Sorry
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
I LOVE
how you made A. Smith seem middle of the bunch, but not! Also, neither above the bunch!!! ahahha XD
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Julio's Realm
Also, follow me on my
Twitter Account
+1
Patience it will become more clear when week 8 rolls around
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
What's gonna happen week 8?
Can I borrow your crystal ball for the weekend?
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
Yea, let me shine it up for you
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
WTF
dude your a clown. Where did i say in my comment that I know the future.
If Alex is playing like crap by week 8 or balling out his mind, wouldnt that paint a better picture of where Alex should be ranked. Get over yourself dude
"I hate it! It looks like a stickup at 7-Eleven. Five guys standing there with their hands in the air."
Norm Sloan
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors."
Weldon Drew
by EcERyda69 on Aug 19, 2011 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sounded like you were backing the Alex bashing there.
Misinterpretation on my part I suppose.
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The Hometown Fan
Which really wasn't an Alex bashing after reading it again.
Disregard everything I said in this string. Completely misread all of it.
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
bye week
That’s coming off the bye week. If he’s struggling heading into the bye week 8 would make as much sense as any to move Kaepernick into the lineup given the extra week of preparation. That’s the point here.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Stafford career numbers:
19 TD/ 21 INT/ 54.5 comp%. Am I missing something? I mean, if you’re going to grade these guys based on potential, why not put Rodgers at the top? Don’t mean to be pushy, just wondering what your thinking is on this.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Aug 19, 2011 4:37 PM PDT reply actions
If you read the article you'd have realized how serious I was with these rankings.
It’s basically how I feel things will shake out by seasons end.
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
The same goes for anyone else that is going banana sandwhich over these rankings.
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
edit
You should go in and bold your comment about how the season could shake out. It’s easy to overlook it.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I suspect a lot of folks aren't even reading anyhow,haha
They’re just seeing the numbers and goin nuts… but yeah, that’s a good idea. I’ll take your advice on that.
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
Nah Fooch is right.
I read the article, I just forgot about the last sentence after going through the rankings afterwards.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Aug 19, 2011 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
20 for Smith? Gtfohwtbs!!!!! Brady and Manning should be 1 and 1a. #11 that’s hilarious, he hasn’t had one 16 game season. 20? Really? Loveya Drew but child please!!
Pre Snap reads, if Smith doesn't get better at it, we made a HUGE mistake!!!
Did you at least read the article? Or just saw rankings and fired off? Just curious...
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
I'll take what's behind door number two.....
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
Read rankings and fired off. I thought they were season end predictions, but I will read them now and respond again.
Pre Snap reads, if Smith doesn't get better at it, we made a HUGE mistake!!!
I have read the article, and I reallyu would love to know what you based the placement of Smith and the Lion's qb on.
Pre Snap reads, if Smith doesn't get better at it, we made a HUGE mistake!!!
upside on Stafford
Stafford has an unbelievable arm
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
Is this the arm that is often injured?? I thought his name was Glassford...
Pre Snap reads, if Smith doesn't get better at it, we made a HUGE mistake!!!
by rlott#42 on Aug 19, 2011 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
that's his shoulders :)
But, I honestly think he has the strongest arm in the league. I think he will be a top 5 QB in the league within 2 seasons. He has way more upside than Alex Smith
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
oops I meant Matt Ryan, not Alex Smith
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
22
I would put Alex behind Hasselbeck and Campbell. I don’t see how you can put Hasselbeck behind him. If you’re going to assume he gets injured then you could assume that 2-3 of the guys below Alex pass him on potential, or that Alex gets hurt as well.
In any case, it’s kind of sad to have someone 20+ who I feel has very little upside. I hope the CK7 experiment works and soon.
#32
With a bullet. If Smith is close to the NFL average, the NFL average is more pathetic than its ever been. Christ on a sidecar.
I've been watching that wretched dork...
since he was drafted. I had to buy anti-nausea medicine to keep my Cheetos down. My cats puke up hairballs every time he’s on the screen. My DVR exploded when Harbaugh said Alex was staying. All my tires went flat on my truck and my battery went dead when he fumbled against Philly last year. My fishing reels seized up when he rolled right and threw the ball out of bounds too many times in one game. I saw Satan himself when Singletary made him the starter.
If there is a hell, Alex Smith will go there, for no other reason than his miserable, abject failure of an impression of a competent QB.
by 5e3deluxe on Aug 19, 2011 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
wow
Given that it’s a game, I’d say this is a mild overreaction.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
It was like being in Ghostbusters or something...
Weird stuff kept happening when Alex Smith was involved. Hell, my toaster oven caught fire one time when he threw a stupid pick. When inanimate objects know the truth about the guy, it seems like the rest of you might pick up a clue after SEVEN ******* YEARS!
by 5e3deluxe on Aug 19, 2011 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
optimism vs. pessimism
Some of us would prefer to hold out some level of hope since most of us don’t have the power to actually walk in and force Trent Baalke or Jim Harbaugh to make a change. Life’s too short to get so riled up over it.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
You must be another young guy and don’t remember the greatness.
I admit, I get furious when I read you guys getting all excited when the 5-7 49ers STILL HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN THE DIVISION.
Do you have any clue how pathetic that is? If an 8-8 49er team lucks into the playoffs, I will be EMBARRASSED. I will be facepalming until my temples bleed. I’ll probably have to be put into restraints to keep from throwing a Fender Telecaster through my nice, new HDTV.
I would rather see the 49ers 3-13 and eliminated early than have them get to the playoffs, only because they sucked a little less than the rest of the division, and then piss themselves against a good team.
Sometimes reading you guys, it’s like you’re pissing yourselves, and you don’t even know it.
I want the 49ers to DOMINATE. I want Super Bowls. I want fast, intelligent QB play and I want defenses that can actually rush the passer. It’s worse than pathetic that the only player we’ve drafted in the last 25 years who could consistently rush the passer is Charles Haley, who’s been retired for 12 ******* years.
Good lord doI mess the days of Dwaine Board, Fred Dean, Big-Hands Johnson and Jeff Stover. For more information, watch the 1984 playoff games. THAT was some MF pass rush.
But for god’s sake, open your eyes to what Alex Smith is. He’s NEVER going to even be average. He’ll break your hearts – why y’all can’t see that is a mystery to me but jesus, knock off with the klonopin. Pay attention to what he does, even with protection.
by 5e3deluxe on Aug 19, 2011 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
age
Well, you can scour through the site to figure out how old I am. For the folks that have never experienced the Super Bowl, your condescending attitude seems a little unfair. Everybody has different life experiences and it impacts how they view a given situation. There is nobody else who has experienced what you have experienced. Just like you’ve never had the exact same life experiences as anybody else.
Such differences impact the way each of us views this team. Younger people could just as easily say that older fans who were there during the glory years and prattle on about how great it was back then are too busy reliving memories that will never happen again. It’s time to move past that and recognize that times change and the state of a franchise changes.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Be that as it may, acceptance of mediocrity is a part of not only the problems with the 49ers but the world. It’s why idiotic spelling is accepted as ok and it’s why other nations are kicking the US’s ass when it comes to math and science.
I won’t accept mediocrity. I won’t look at something awful and say it’s good, just because the in crowd thinks so, especially when it appears as if most of the in crowd is grinning like Tom Cullen (look it up kiddies) while pee is running into their shoes.
That’s my story and I’m stickin to it. It WILL be fun to hear the boos tomorrow. That will make me smile. If you’re a REAL fan, you demand excellence. You have standards – like the REAL 49ers did. There are no longer any standards, seemingly for anything. I have standards and I won’t shut up about it. Y’all can ban me if you like, but the truth only smiles.
The truth only smiles...
Sorry you can’t see that.
judging fans
When people refer to themselves as “real fans” they’re judging the conduct of other fans. I don’t think one fan is in a position to judge the fandom of another fan. Particularly when the extent of the interaction is via the Internet.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm an old guy, have been a fan since Brodie, and I don't share your opinion
Respecting the greatness of the 80s and 90’s niners doesn’t necessitate having contempt for today’s version of the team.
I’m not “pissing myself” rooting for this team – I’m not denigrating the glory of the Super Bowl years – if anything, I’m honoring it. Rooting for Jim Harbaugh and his desire to bring the WCO back to the team that initially perfected it, is honoring the legacy. Celebrating improvement of any sort – more wins, a playoff appearance, however it is achieved – is honoring the memory of Bill Walsh and his teams who – in case you’ve forgotten – went 2-14 and 6-10 in his first two years. Was I an idiot when I was pleased he improved the team from 2-14 to 6-10? Was I pissing myself then when I saw promise in that skinny kid named Montana who threw wobbly passes but seemed to make good things happen every now and then, despite his indecisiveness? You are convinced Alex Smith is kryptonite – he might be, I’m on the fence myself – and I respect that. But for goodness sake, that doesn’t mean everyone rooting for him is an idiot!
I’m rooting for the ‘niners, my favorite sporting team in all of sports. they’ve frustrated me beyond measure the past several years. I can tell you the name of most guys on the roster, give you a reasonable assessment of their performance the past few years, and quote the team’s record over the past ten. I know the difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4, the basics of the WCO and its many iterations, etc. Hell, I even know quite a few guys who actually play or played in the NFL… in short, I’m a pretty well informed fan. And yet – I am NOT a cynic. My familiarity with the game and the league does not require that I develop contempt for those that root for success despite a lack of tangible evidence that that faith will be rewarded. I still find hope around every corner – the hiring of a new coach, the drafting of a promising rookie, the resurgence of a veteran – even one good play in an otherwise bad drive can inspire my hope in the team. And yes, when Harbaugh says Alex is improving him, and I see him throw a nice slant to Braylon Edwards, I forget the bad throw of the previous series, and celebrate the good one. That doesn’t mean I’m pissing myself, or ignorant, or a young guy, or that I’m taking klonopin…
It means I’m a fan.
by mwright84 on Aug 19, 2011 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
Welp...
You don’t have to accept mediocrity to be a fan. Real fans have standards. The ones who won’t buy tickets and put the 49ers into local blackouts have standards.
Keep this in mind – after the 1984 Super Bowl there was a *20-year** waiting list for season tickets. You could only get tickets from scalpers if you weren’t a season-ticket holder.
Now they’re begging people to buy them (not a good idea to raise prices when the team blows chunks either) and if it were real ticket sales, and not the 49ers buying back all the unsold ones, there would have been blackouts for the past 3-4 years. The empty seats you see on TV tell the story.
You are entitled to accept mediocrity, but you don’t have to. I choose not to and I choose to speak up about it.
There is NOTHING in my email that says I accept mediocrity
Nothing. Read it again. Point out to me where I say I’m happy or even ok with mediocrity. Let me help you – I didn’t. I said I root for the team’s improvement, and celebrate the highs while suffering the lows. I did not say I accept mediocrity. If you’re suggesting that I do – and it’s unclear in your response – then you’re presuming that, based on something you inferred, not something I actually stated. Don’t presume. I’m frustrated and unhappy about the ’niners mediocrity – but I love that there are fans, like me, who will show up and root for them to get better.
Glad you’re speaking up about what irks you. That’s a good thing. But putting down others who don’t agree with you isn’t. Reasonable people can disagree, reasonably. I listen to everybody – once – I tend to ignore those I find to be unreasonable.
And by the way – I don’t know if you manage, or have ever managed, people, but I have – and I have found that humiliating, castigating, or otherwise undermining the person/thing you hope to improve generally doesn’t work. Teaching, supporting, challenging, pushing for better – is usually a more more reliable way to get the best out of somebody.
and by the way – welp? I’m guessing I’m actually older than you. At my age, I don’t resort to name calling to make my point.
welp
is a common transition term. Welp, thats all there is to it. I dont think deluxe was namecalling.
In dealing with anger on the internet, ive found this guide to quite useful here.
huh, you're right. welp = well on the interwebs... not name calling, I take that back.
… I guess if I was a young guy idiot who accepted mediocrity, I’d’ve known that…
"whelp"
Is what you’re thinking of….refers to puppies, wolf cubs, and other young creatures.
Sounds the same, spelled differently.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 5:01 AM PDT up reply actions
"Real" fans
don’t whine and complain on message boards all day about the same stuff and say people aren’t fans if they don’t agree with them.
Just sayin’
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
by Blank x2 on Aug 19, 2011 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
As opposed to
Alex Smith groupies who complain about Alex Smith non-fans on message boards all day about…
No more excuses Alex ~ okay?
iPad commenting
I recently won an iPad. I’ve only gotten on NN a couple times with it. How do you like visiting the site with it?
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I love it
Because of the portability. I have 3G too which is great when I’m in the boonies. Take’s a bit of getting use to but worth it to me.
nice
Mine just has wifi, no 3G. I had no plans on getting one until I won it so I’m fine with no 3G. Although I’ll be at the game tomorrow with no access on it since there’s no wifi in the stadium outside the press box.
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
My NN experience
Is really good. Not much different than any other computer with the exception of having to type slower and an occasional “total fail”.
love it except...
… when I find myself surfing NN instead of doing the thing I’m supposed to be doing instead…
well
That applies to any computer, tablet, mobile device!
by David Fucillo on Aug 19, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
alex smith isn’t fit to be my nanny’s secretary!!!!!!! if he threw a ball in an empty field, he’d miss the ground!! all my ancestors rolled in their graves when alex was conceived, and all children born on Alex’s birthday will forever be cursed to fail at anything they ever attempt.
man I just realized I can’t even use sarcasm in this case, because nothing i say will be as overboard as anything he said.
I was about to rec it but that last sentence went overboard a little bit.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Aug 19, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
dang bro, Alex has had his share of bad games but we can’t blame these last couple of seasons specifically on him.
by ninersince94 on Aug 19, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
What would be your definition of an avg. qb?
by ninersince94 on Aug 19, 2011 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Jeff Garcia. Pretty average but occasionally brilliant.
Alex Smith is occasionally average but one of the biggest chokers the game has ever seen.
I hated Jeff Garcia, but he was a well above average quarterback every single season that he played, excepting the Cleveland/Detroit years.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
By the lights of logic you seem to be saying that
Alex Smith is about as average as Jeff Garcia was. How is Alex Smith in the same vacinity of J Garcia? Pro Bowls, yards, QB rating, it goes on and on.
Read for content, Junior...
I never said Alex Smith was an average QB. He is the worst excuse for a QB I have ever seen in the NFL. I would take Akili Smith over Alex Smith. That’s how bad he is. It’s just that quarterbacking in general in the NFL has declined over the past 15 years and so losers like Alex Smith don’t look as bad, compared to their contemporaries. But compared to the average quarterback in the ’90s, Alex Smith is on training wheels, a lollipop in his mouth and cards on his spokes making a “rrrrr-rrrrr” sound.
The only content in any of your posts is
‘I hate Alex Smith as a football player and human being’
Which is pretty silly when you get right down to it.
by Virginia9er on Aug 19, 2011 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
the human being part and hate seems to be your hyperbole addition.
the general premise I am getting is that alex smith is not a good or great qb and to believe otherwise does not make much sense. the pas SIX years would seem to prove that point.
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by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 20, 2011 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
glad to hear that
Jeff Garcia. Pretty average but occasionally brilliant.
Alex Smith is occasionally average but one of the biggest chokers the game has ever seen.
these choice of words just gave the opposite impression
These are the stats that are typically considered to be the big ones for quarterbacks: TD, INT, Comp%, Y/A.
Improving on those without deviating, I would use TD% and INT% (rate stats rule the world), Comp%, and Adjusted Y/A.
Pro football reference has +stats for each of these, which tell you how close a QB is to average. In the +stat world, 100 is average. 95 is roughly (though I don’t believe exactly) 5% below average. 105 is roughly 5% above average. Etc.
Alex’s +stats in all these categories in 2009/2010
TD%: 109/98
INT%: 96/101
Comp%: 98/96
AY/A: 92/99
Very, very, very close to being exactly average across the board.
He does worse in DVOA, though interpreting what that means in practical terms takes more brainpower.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also, consider that his numbers are very average on a below-average team.
I really don’t like the Alex Smith debate, but I think that bears mentioning. That’s why some people like him so much, because he’s one of the only people that has deserved to stay since 2005. And that’s why I think he is one of the more underrated QBs in the game. I don’t think he’d crack the top ten, but he has a higher upside than some might think.
The thing I don’t like about the Alex Smith debate is the way the biggest detractors ignore how average he’s been for the last two seasons, as though him being average is really a point in his favor, and how many Alex Smith supporters use his averageness as though it were a point in his favor. An average quarterback is one that starts in the league, but that his team is looking to replace. Average = NFL starter =/= adequate.
The whole fulcrum of the debate needs to change if it’s ever going to be useful. Alex Smith being average is what makes it so desirable to replace him. Alex Smith displaying a development curve not significantly removed from guys like Hasselbeck, Delhomme, and Garrard (in descending order, impressive-wise) is what makes it desirable to stick with him through his peak-age seasons.
Those points are where the debate really should start on both sides, in my opinion.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that depends on where you stand on an average quarterback that hasn’t had much opportunity to develop or blossom in a good situation. Saying AS is average doesn’t necessarily mean he will always be average (or, in your definition, an NFL starter). Of course I agree with you, a team should always be looking for possible upgrades at every position, as well as looking to improve current players. That is, I believe, what the Niners are doing with Kaepernick. This is also something I’m excited about with our coaching staff: they’re committed to improving every player, including Willis and other veterans. If you’re not getting better, you’re getting worse!
I have no doubt that Harbaugh will always be looking to improve the QB situation. Alex, in his mind, was our best possible pick for this season, and has fairly won the starting job over Kaepernick (so far). This debate is a moot point, in my opinion. There’s very little doubt that, among the QBs available to the Niners, Alex is the clear starter. I guess you could say the Niners should try for a trade, but any trade in this part of the season would be very expensive (see the ridiculous Kolb trade).
What do you think?
This criminally undervalues Joe Flacco. I also think Romo is too low.
I like that you don’t back down with the younger players, though. It takes balls to stand by Stafford and Bradford so high. I also dig the Matt Schaub love.
I’d juggle some other things, too, but nothing too heinous.
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This is more or less prediction for this season.
Not based on anything more than gut feeling that they will be worthy of those spots by mid season, or seasons end.
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Yeah, that’s why I didn’t get down and dirty with the fine tooth comb.
And, like I said, I like what you do with a lot of the picks. It’s a fun list.
Also: Never underestimate my Joe Flacco fanboyism. He’s the pajamas that the cat wears over its pajamas on especially cold nights.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, nice!
I am not sold on Flacco just yet. I am not sure I will be even if he wins the big one. It would take two with him being the MVP for both for me to waiver a bit on my thinking of him. He’s going to be much higher up on that list in a couple of years, but for now I think he is within range give or take a couple spots.
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Colt McCoy is far better than Alex
by monterrey niner on Aug 19, 2011 5:11 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Smith is #25 or below
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by MichaelClutchtree on Aug 19, 2011 5:14 PM PDT reply actions
...
mcnab should not be on the list and this season will prove that. vick had one good season and had a few picks in the preseason. he still needs to prove that the games he played last year was not a just one special year and that he can stay healthy. mark sanchez does not deserve to be that high. with a meager completion percentage and still having more picks than tds, and a team that does not trust him at all to throw the ball he should be in the mid twenties. matthew stafford has proven very little in the league except that he cashes fat pay checks and can get injured. personally I would have Shaun Hill on the list in the late twenties.
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This was a fun article
It felt like drinking beers with buddies and making a list. With beer-comprehension
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by TryAndCatchVD on Aug 19, 2011 5:19 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Thanks... and I am glad at least one person read it.
This is all it was really meant for.
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Alex Smith's career has been tainted by a profound ineptitude
at all levels within the organization. But what other player do fans give 6 years to conclude whether or not they are worthy of a job? It is remarkable that intelligent fans who have watched him work feel he can overcome both his mental and physical flaws — pocket awareness, accuracy down the field, composure, footwork, instinct, reading defenses. The next 3 preseason games do matter — not the outcome, but how the Smith and the first unit play. They did nothing different in terms of play calling, formation, schemes etc. against NO that was any different than under Singeltary.
Do you think they will?
It has to right? These guys aren’t stupid are they?
1st down: draw
2nd down: incomplete (or sack/hurry)
3rd and long: incomplete (or sack/hurry)
Hey, they kept Alice, you tell me...
The one hope I have, is because of the lockout, this year will be a statistical outlier in terms of Harbaugh’s ability to evaluate. He’s stuck with Smitty because nobody else was available. I understand that. But the way some of these gomers are all atwitter about Alex’s latest “One more last chance” (hat tip to Vince Gill) you’d think Steve or Joe had entered a time machine, gotten young again and were riding to the rescue.
by 5e3deluxe on Aug 19, 2011 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This makes me think of the
Packers. 1st play of SB, they come out spread formation, 5 WRs, no backs, letting the Steelers know they were gonna pass and that they couldn’t stop them.
Instead of disguising runs/passes, spread the field more often on 1st and 2nd down, with 1 back and 4 WRs and give AS a shotgun look. It spreads the field so they count crowd the line to blitz, and if they do, 4 WR spread someone will be open both right away and down the field. Stop continuing to walk into a brick wall. Make AS as comfortable as possible. Don’t make him drop back 5 steps against a heated pass rush.
Really? How would you have any idea if anything has?
We haven’t even given Harbaugh and company the chance to see if anything has changed, there hasn’t possibly been enough time to do so. You cannot possibly make an adequate judgement on that based on 1 lousy preseason game.
For me, I’m going to listen to the players who have almost unanimously talked about the difference at practice, around the facility, and the culture in general…you can call me naive if you want, but you can’t belittle me for feeling that way.
Call me naive or whatever, but the idea behind hiring Harbaugh in the first place was getting the right guy to turn it around, can you give him a few minutes?
I give him three years...
But I give the Bust nothing. Ever. Well, ok, I give him a hearty freeway salute every time I drive past 49ers headquarters (I live in the area) and I call tell you if I ever saw him at the Rivermark Safeway, I’d hiss at him like a cat.
Yea
I think this is part of the problem anyway. When Harbaugh made his decision to bring Alex back, he somewhat alienated many fans. I think the rest of us are thinking Harbaugh can make Alex serviceable until Kaep is ready, whenever that may be. At least that is how I look at it.
And for yourself, that is simply unacceptable. I can understand that, but I do think you go out of your way to hate on Alex on a more personal level, which is outside of football.
After seven years...
I’m beyond fed up. Several friends of mine just got sh*tcanned from Cisco and they were long-time, excellent people, good at their jobs.
AS never does ANYTHING right and gets millions of dollars to do it. SO you may have a point.
Doubt Harbaugh gives a crap about alienating some fans.
He will do what he thinks is best for the organization, and also, listening to his interviews, he doesn’t think of keeping Alex as a big deal. He’s doing the best with what he’s been given, and if Alex comes back for another season it will be because we’re not willing to bring in another overpriced QB.
I, for one, am SO GLAD that Harbaugh isn’t paying attention to the fans’ opinions on hot-button issues. That’s the sign of a good backbone and self-confidence that a HC needs to have. This shows with Alex, but also with free agency and the depth chart as well. Singletary was too obsessed with keeping his job to be reasonable: Harbaugh is cool and collect, at least in this early stage. Don’t listen to much to us fans, Harbaugh, please. Just keep doing what you’re doing!
Oh I completely agree
I was just pointing out that delxue is one of those that Harbaugh would ‘lose’ points with. I meant it as that is part of the problem with fans displeasure so far, Harbaugh’s trust in Alex, they don’t see it and maybe never will. Not that they are right.
I’m not insuiting Harbaugh cares, nor should he in any way, shape or form. Just that it is a cause for some of the contempt on here.
Definitely.
But, whether or not Alex will ever win back any of those fans (I doubt he will), Harbaugh will not lose those fans. He’s too new, too separate from the last 5 years to suffer the same indignities. If he starts really winning in the next few years, he’ll be in a great situation and even the staunchest Alex-hater will forgive him this “indiscretion”.
I don't think so either
But it was a cause for concern with them.
I don’t think Harbaugh has ever envisioned Alex as in the long-term. In this situation he is essentially a stop-gap til Kaep is ready. Problem is a normal stop-gap doesn’t have more baggage than all the planes flying in a given day.
What he may mean is that
the core roster is still in tact, and, even though Harbaugh does deserve time (like 5 weeks…), the way the offense and AS were utiltized mirrored the same absurdity of last years. We can chalk it up to 2 weeks of prep, but is is a cause for concern and that is why this preseason is far from meaningless for the niners.
I agree but...
keep in mind, he inherited Singletary’s team which was predicated on anachronistic football. I think a bunch of Singletary players will be cut before the regular season starts, and some others will be picked up on the waiver wire after the final cutdowns. Will it make the 49ers a playoff team? Not on your life, but if Harbaugh can move the personnel in the direction he wants to go, even a little, he can make more things happen in the following two years. I have some faith in Harbaugh, mostly because he studied with Bill…but I have to see the idea that 8-8 is not an acceptable season. I have to see the standards being raised. That will determine the future, as much as anything.
Yea I think I understood
I just don’t think the NO game is any indication of what we will look like whatsoever. If we come out Week 1 and look anywhere near that bad there might be an uprising myself included, but I think Harbaugh at least deserves some benefit of the doubt. Just providing my viewpoint, I’m not concerned just yet. Anxious? Very much so.
Alex on the other hand, can only help himself by his play of the field, period. And even that may not be enough.
I think it's a VERY good indication...
Of what we can expect from the Bust. Nice 39 QB rating. Sadly, it appears as if that is also what we can expect from the offensive line, such as it is. My prediction for the season is 4-12 with Smith replaced in the starting lineup during the bye week.
Again, I can stand a losing season. What I can’t stand is the thought of more of the same old horse****. AS falls into that category.
I agree with you to a point
If the offensive line plays like that, which would lead Alex Smith to do the same, I think 4-12 is about right, maybe even generous.
But the offensive line won’t look anything like that, it simply won’t. I don’t see how the NO game could possibly be an indication of how they will play the rest of the season, it just doesn’t make sense. All it is an indication of is how far they have to come, it doesn’t preclude them from making that progress.
It makes me think of a admirable organization, say, the
Packers. 1st play of SB, they come out spread formation, 5 WRs, no backs, letting the Steelers know they were gonna pass and that they couldn’t stop them.
Instead of disguising runs/passes, spread the field more often on 1st and 2nd down, with 1 back and 4 WRs and give AS a shotgun look. It spreads the field so they count crowd the line to blitz, and if they do, 4 WR spread someone will be open both right away and down the field. Stop continuing to walk into a brick wall. Make AS as comfortable as possible. Don’t make him drop back 5 steps against a heated pass rush.
It won't matter...
We’ve seen plenty of him in shotgun and waay more often than not, nothing positive happened. People talk about the pass to Antonio Bryant FIVE YEARS AGO as if that was a common occurrence. He’s had a few good throws but I attribute it to the “monkeys and typewriters” theorem (look it up, kiddies). If you’re counting on that from Alex on a regular basis, you’re pissing up a rope.
I fear you are correct,
but you still must put him in the best possible position. Hopefully Harbaugh’s presence can help along with spreading the field for him more often. Making the defense respect anything past 15 yards is extremely important. It will tame the pass rush and open up the flats and the 5-20 yard area. To not attempt this because AS simply aint good is sabotage.
Chad Henne is pretty underrated on this list, IMO.
Yeah, he was booed by his own crowd, but the Miami QB situation is comparable to the Niners: they have a pretty average QB who is on a losing team, with no viable backup, and the crowd boos him cuz they’re pissed off about it. He’s decent, turns the ball over a bit more than he should, but to rank him lower than Cam Newton? I dunno. Seems a little harsh.
Love the article though, if only to see all the likely starting QBs in a comprehensive and thought-out list.
Chad Henne is an interesting player because of what 2011 means for his career, but I think he’s clearly been below average to this point. Using the same stuff I did for Alex above, here’s how Henne rated out in 2009/2010:
TD%: 82/86
INT%: 98/88
Comp%: 99/102
AY/A: 88/90
If he doesn’t take some real steps forward developmentally, that team is in a lot of trouble.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
sorry i'm confused: 99/102 completion percentage? seems a little improbable.
Are you using a different metric?
Yeah. An 82 TD% would be really fantastic, too.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean, 82%.
I should probably not confuse this any more than necessary…
/walks away.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
However, I consider the Completion Percentage the most important rating a QB can have.
TDs and INTs are pretty variable (TDs especially, on a good running team), so I think Henne is alright. No doubt he needs to improve for the Dolphins to be contenders, but I don’t think many people consider the dolphins contenders.
I’ve been of the growing belief that the most valuable thing a quarterback can do is throw touchdowns — even at the cost of additional interceptions. There are some variance issues that muddy the waters, certainly, issues we admittedly do not have with completion %. But the more I learn, the more I’m convinced that the sheer value of a touchdown outweighs the risks you have to take on with its natural rate variance.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
And to specifically address your point, which was:
TDs and INTs are pretty variable (TDs especially, on a good running team)
I want to mention that this is why I use TD%. It still has some variance problems, which I admit in the previous comment, but it’s way more reliable than a counting stat which, as you so aptly point out, can be significantly affected by something as simple as how frequently a team runs.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
TDs are very valuable, but I don't think they're a great indication of how good the QB is.
It’s an indication of how valuable he is in the red zone, as opposed to the running game. An important factor, to be sure, but only one facet of his play. I like the TD% stat, but still, if I were to choose two stats, it would be completion percentage and yards/attempt.
I don’t think they’re a great indication of how good the QB is on their own, but I do think TD% takes one of the, if not the biggest pie slice when you divvy them out. You’ll certainly never be able to tell very much if you don’t put it in the context of at least the other three stats mentioned.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I respect that.
Everyone looks at stats with their own lens, Which is part of the reason I like raw stats, or even play-by-play stats, a lot more than advanced stats like DVOA. It gives the casual observer a better chance to weight things according to their own liking.
I’d actually really, really love to see a basic wOBA style analysis of quarterback play (which is to say, using league data to determine a concrete value for individual completions, incompletions, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions as they relate to the final offensive score. To know exactly how much a completion contributes positively to offensive scoring or exactly how much an incompletion contributes negatively to offensive scoring leaguewide would not only be simple for a person with the available data and math skills to do, but would also be extremely valuable in terms of properly understanding the actual value of things like completion percentage against other measures.
It’s my QB stat wet dream to see somebody produce something like that.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
End paren.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course
It does allow casual observers to weight things to their own liking. Problem is that some of them have no context, others have little correlation to winning, and some of them are just plain worthless because they are very misleading. When the math takes over and we can see what correlates to winning football games the room for opinion on which stat is better grows very small.
Garrard is better
A few years ago he finished the season with only like four interceptions. He makes play all the time. I think the reason he is ranked so low is because he makes as many highlight mistakes as he does highlight plays.
Living on the East Coast I’ve seen more of his games than I have of the Niners, and honestly, I feel like he has never been set up for success. I think Jack del Rio is one of those defensive minded coaches who doesn’t appreciate the passing game (a la Singletary or Nolan).
I’m watching his game right now, and he has made about six awesome plays and one “bad” play where he bombed it into the end zone for an INT. He’s not great but I think he’s better than Alex is and I think you could argue that Alex is the 20th best QB in the league.
I like Garrard a lot, and I think he’s been one of the more underrated players in the league for a while. He’s certainly been better than Alex has, though any decline by Garrard coupled by any leap by Alex would flip that comparison in a second.
All that said, I think it’s very fair to worry that he’s on the wrong side of his peak. He’s 33 this coming season, and he’s not the caliber of quarterback that tends to weather the mid-30s all that well.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he probably won't get any better than he is now
Plus he has Crohn’s disease, which as I understand it, is pretty much a disease of uncontrollable nuclear diarrhea.
Oh man, that's gotta suck for him
I know people with that and the only person I’d wish that on…well…you know…
He must starve himself before games.
I’ll be rooting for him, though.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
If you take Alex Smith's 2010 stats
and project what he was on pace for, he its pretty much in the 15-17th ranking for each stat. Average.
15-17 is above average, actually. Average includes all of those non-starters who get so many snaps every year.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Dang , took awhile to read all those comments , funny thing is i learned along time ago ...
…. Do not let things you have no control over ( own you )… conclusion Jed York completely Owns ( 5e3deluxe ) , he has got you into a complete frenzy … Alex Smith is the capper , he dominates your Football world …!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Alex Smith will be a top 15 QB by the end of the season
Both Freeman and Stafford are better than Matt Ryan imo. I think Matt Ryan is overrated. I think Freeman should be higher, as should Romo. Stafford has the strongest arm in the league
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
great list btw
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
insert your favorite picture of kool-aid here. lol
freeman and stafford have not proven anything in this league. ryan has lead the team from behind and has played several good years. stafford has not even played a year of football and freeman had one decent year after a horrible rookie year.
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by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
What? Freeman was awesome last year. I mean, he was really, really good.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll go further, and say he was outstanding
Especially with how well he did with the rookie WRs
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
He was better than Matt Ryan, even.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Arguably.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Ryan
Is the most overrated young QB in the league. People want to put him just behind Rodgers, as far as younger QBs, and he just simply isn’t.
Don't get me wrong
He is a good QB, just not worthy of all the praise. He has a darn good team around him, running game and solid defense.
Outstanding offensive line, great receivers, and great running game
And a good defense
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
We did
Get a TD off their Sp Teams though…ha
:) Shoulda won, shoulda won
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
Roddy White is great
But the rest of their receiving corps in nothing special, as they got the guy who used to be Tony Gonzalez.
Now, with Jones though, we see if Ryan is over-rated, or if he turns into an all-pro.
He had an excellent rookie season…he hasn’t quite followed it up as expected.
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by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 4:48 AM PDT up reply actions
curious to see how many drops Jones is going to have
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 20, 2011 5:09 AM PDT up reply actions
More than he should, likely
But when he catches it, dude is likely to take it far. The kid the Bengals grabbed will be better, I think, but Jones will be good in his own right, spread out the other team’s defense, and allow R. White to shine
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
freeman had one decent year after a horrible rookie year.
freeman had one good year <<<<<< matt ryan has had three good years.
if freeman has two more years like last year than I would say that above is reversed if matt ryan stays the same.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
If Freeman’s 2010 season was “decent”, then I’ll take three.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
And, listen, I get what you’re saying about prolonged success. But to dismiss success altogether when the prolonged part of the equation doesn’t apply is a messy solution.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I am just not quick to jump to conclusions. I acknowledge how freeman played last year but to put him above ryan who has had three solid seasons under his belt including ryans rookie year is something I am not going to do. freeman could easily back-track this year.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I’m not putting Freeman ahead of Ryan right now, but I could certainly see that ending up the case at the end of the year.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you. that may end up being the case for myself as well.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt ryan had an outstanding o-line
and great receivers, and still didn’t perform greatly. Should have lost to the Niners last year, where he was largely outplayed by Alex Smith, just an example of how overrated he is, imo.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
Matt Ryan is really good. I agree he’s overrated, but for that I fault the raters and not the player. He’s a fine, young quarterback and he’ll be fun to watch play for a good, long time.
(And Joe Flacco is better)
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Flacco is that great to be honest
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
by teekay on Aug 19, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do. I think he’s criminally underrated.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
His numbers are great,
and his arm is great, both in terms of accuracy and especially arm strength. However, he struggles against pressure, and is immobile.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
I firmly believe that as his career goes on, the “struggles against pressure” criticisms are going to go away.
He’s one of those guys who, when I watch him play, it just makes me happy.
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by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
He is good...
There’s just something missing. I can’t put my finger on what it is, but winning tends to cure all, so maybe he just needs to do that a bit more in January.
Agree with you that he’s underrated though.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 4:51 AM PDT up reply actions
flacco chokes in the playoffs, and that is what it is really all about. matt ryan has show pose when the game is on the line to help his team win, like last year against the niners.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not going to get into a choker debate, so I’ll just say that I disagree.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair
A lot of QB’s don’t look so great playing the Steelers in the playoffs. It keeps happening to Flacco
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 4:49 AM PDT up reply actions
go back and review that game and the box score. matt ryan won that game for the falcons.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
don't look at the box score
Alex Smith outplayed Matt Ryan.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
matt ryan won the game for the falcons. niners were largley ineffective in trying to score. to say that ryan was largley outplayed by alex smith is text book hyperbole.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Clements won the game for the falcons
Ryan threw a game losing pick. Then Manusky’s brilliant prevent defense came in, and then, there’s only one result
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
clements made matt ryan go 40 yards farther to score.
niners offense could not score after the first quarter. you need to score points to win games.
the defense scored as much as the offense that game.
go review that game.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/gameflash/2010/10/03/3981_summary.html
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He threw a game losing pick.
If Clements hadn’t fumbled, the game would have been over, and Ryan would have ended with 0 TDs and 2 picks, with like a 20 QB rating. Any QB can go 80 yards against Manusky’s prevent defense
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
they still would have came back and scored. the niners would not have scored and forced to kick a field goal. there was too much time on the clock. it is very clear that matt ryan had a better game than alex smith.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
maybe clear to you
but not to everyone. Neither QB had a great game, but it’s debatable which one had a better game. I don’t think that you can say that Ryan had the better game just by virtue of the fact that they won given his two picks.
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 20, 2011 5:14 AM PDT up reply actions
right, clearly not being able to score more than one touchdown or move the ball at all really after the first quarter can compare to matt ryans game winning 100plus drive.
go review the facts of that game.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 20, 2011 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
how many qbs has mark sanchez outplayed?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Mark Sanchez is overrated also.
Alex Smith is way better imo
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
Mark Sanchez isn't overrated
That word isn’t strong enough for whatever Mark Sanchez is.
cut after a few more garbage years; that is how he will be able to be described.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 19, 2011 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I did
But then I remember, it’s not so much that Ryan or the Falcons WON as Clements/the 49ers LOST that game. Ryan made some nice plays at the end, but our team snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope he is
If for no other reason than to hear the Alex trolls whine about something else.
"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."
Yeah, I love Freeman. He’s the case study for throwing raw talents on the field early and often.
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 19, 2011 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Rams fan.
Respect for putting Bradford that high. The only real problem I see is Stafford should be at about #18 just above Sanchez. Sam’s started more games in one year than Stafford has in two, which pretty much sums up his career thus far =/. I like Matt though, the skill is without a doubt there. You know what I really loved? Kolb at #26. Dude is unbelievably overrated it’s ridiculous. The guy has proven less than Sanchez, Freeman or even Bradford and he’s played for four seasons!
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
by douchiedude on Aug 20, 2011 1:46 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Sad to agree
I think Bradford is going to be the real deal, and your team’s defense is looking pretty solid. Weird that they couldn’t choke out the Seahawks last December for that playoff spot, but I think they make it this year.
Let’s see if your guy makes the second year leap- I’m afraid he will
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 4:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Liked the article and list
And, while sitting in the dentist’s office last week, I put together a top 10 qb list in my head. We pretty much have the same guys. I constantly wonder why Schaub doesn’t get a little more love….if the Texans had a defense, or ever made the playoffs, I think people would see just how good he is.
I might put Romo a little higher, Stafford a bit lower until he plays another full season, and Flacco a couple spots higher too.
What the hell happened to Jay Cutler? The guy looked great throwing to Marshall in Denver, but since then….
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
Mike Martz's offense gets him murdered.
He has no time to throw the ball ever…similar to Alex.
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Yeah, I always like to talk about how sacks are more of a QB stat than people realize, but that needs to come with a serious Mike Martz condition.
Cutler was sacked more times in 2010 than he was in his first three years, combined. It’s crazy.
And even then, he was pretty good. Not upper echelon, but I do think he gets undervalued slightly by traditional metrics because of the interceptions (that sentiment does not apply to his 2009 season, though, because, damn).
Once more, coming to you by proxy.
by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
"A serious Mike Martz condition"
Well said.
It’s impressive that the man can be “murdered” repeatedly, rise from the dead, and people still question his toughness.
While I think Cutler is pouty, and easy to dislike at a distance, anyone who maintains as a professional athlete while being diabetic is instantly tougher than most people realize.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Aug 20, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting list, Drew.
Obviously, rating QBs in a list will look different from one person to another. I think you valued most of the players fairly. In fact, my top 9 may look identical to yours. There are some surprises for me, though. Stafford being so high and ranking him well above Romo for instance. Romo may not be a good playoff QB (yet) but he is certainly a top 10 performer in my book. In fact, I’d do a clean swap of Eli Manning and Tony Romo on your list. I think Eli may be the most overrated QB in the NFL. I’m also a bigger fan of Bradford than Stafford.
Other notable differences I’d have with your list is I would rate Josh Freeman higher, and even as an Alex Smith fan, i don’t think I could rate him at 20th. I’d at least have to consider Jason Campbell & Matt Hasselbeck above him, but not by much. I’m glad you kept Kolb low. He’s done nothing in the NFL. A few nice fill-in games and suddenly hes the top commodity? I don’t get it. In fact, the Cardinals being the ones to blow a load for him tells me all I need to know. Yeah, yeah, he had great tutelage in Philly. But now he’s surrounded by mediocrity and a new offense. Good luck, Kevin. Ha, just kidding. I hope you fail and the 49ers beat your brains in. ;)
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by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
hey Drew K
Good article. I agree that Brady has secured #1.
by mcwagner on Aug 20, 2011 12:25 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Wow Drew.....
I am thoroughly impressed! I would usually take time to rip you to shreds over a “Saint” Alex post. But, I found this one to be very entertaining and quite objective. My only grip is that your take on said Smith was rather bland and non descriptive. I know, I know, around these parts it’s simply best to leave the discussion to the people here who have their own thoughts of Alex. But, to me…it’s still seems k=like a cop out. You took extra special care to describe every QB on this list except Alex. A rather good list, however, it does nothing to deflate or elevate Smith’s caliber.
K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr
good list but....
excuse me but how on god green earth is michael vick ahead of ben roethlisburger, granted i hate the guy and the steelers for that matter but seriously big ben has only led his team to the best record for a rookie, 3 superbowls, and a great regular season win total since he was drafted. yes he has the best freaking defense and troy and harrison and blah blah blah but ben is one of the best in the league he picks defenses apart real well, utilizes his weapons really really well and can run, yeah i know so can vick but vick is not clutch! big ben is extremely clutch and can easily win tight games, just look at the playoffs against the ravens, or hell the freaking superbowl against the cardinal, he keeps making plays when it matters most and nobody is giving him credit. so ben goes #6 and eli #7, eli gets too much crap for how well he plays, yes he threw 25 picks last season, but also 31 tds, brees threw 22 picks, and 33 tds, not much of a difference, peyton threw 17! yes eli is blessed with a pretty good defense, but his offensive line has not been great and his punter is dam near mentally incapable, and coughlin is not a great coach by any stretch of the imagination. though eli is wildly inconsistent in games at times, he has also been one of the best season in and season out so people need to give him the respect he deserves (fyi i hate the giants too, my only allegience is to the 49ers in case you were wondering). Vick….1 GREAT SEASON, yeah he looked great, he ran, he threw, and posted career numbers. HE ALSO FAILED IN THE PLAYOFFS! sure he lost to the packers but jeez you play that well then it should have not ended so quickly, and he was sacked 34 times in 12 games, not horrible but it shows that he was hanging on to the ball too long because every other pass was a super deep ball to djax, the packers just closed him in and made him throw bad passes because hes not a great defense reader, he never has been, hes a running qb who had a really good year, so did randall cunningham in 98 when he had moss and carter and all of that, its always one year where teams are unpredictable and they catch you, if i remember, the eagles didnt exactly open up on the 9ers, yes vick was out but hey same weapons and defense just a little less mobile. vick was great for a season but i honestly wouldnt put him among the elite, especially infront of big ben

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