How Do We Best Assess Performances Versus The Opposing Depth Chart?
by David Fucillo on Aug 22, 2011 6:00 AM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers Game Recap, Review 2011
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PrintThe 49ers wrapped up a strong performance on Saturday against the Oakland Raiders in which the entire depth chart contributed to the victory. The rushing attack was strongest top to bottom, but they also received a consistently strong pass rush, solid wide receiver performances and I could really go on and on.
The question following this kind of performance is how to compare different members of the depth chart when they were playing against different members of the opposing depth chart. For example, let's just look at the running backs after Frank Gore:
Anthony Dixon: 12 carries, 53 yards (4.4 ypc)
Kendall Hunter: 9 carries, 105 yards (11.7 ypc), 1 touchdown
Xavier Omon: 14 carries, 62 yards (4.4 ypc), 1 touchdown
Hunter looked the most explosive, Omon had a nice workhorse effort about him and Dixon put together a solid effort. Dixon still danced a bit, but otherwise seemed to get some nice chunks of yardage.
This can be applied further along the roster, particularly with players that were in later in the game.. For example, Konrad Reuland put together a very solid day with a pair of nice catches and Kyle Williams came on in the second half and had a couple nice catches from Colin Kaepernick.
The question is how to analyze the situation. For the coaching staff, the practice sessions would likely provide that much more context to a solid day against a third or fourth string opposing player. Unfortunately, we as fans do not get that same kind of access, which means a bit harder to tell who is really stepping up their game, and who is just feasting on crappy opposition. This leads to Kory Sheets and Thomas Clayton being our future, when in reality it was just as much feasting on training camp opposition.
How do you try and contextualize the performances, particularly in a strong overall performance against the Raiders on Saturday?
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Preseason means nothing
That’s why the games don’t count. I’m not going to fall into the trap I have previously in thinking that good preseason performances equal a good regular season. If that were the case then Dixon and Coffee would both be pro bowlers and the 49ers would have gone 16-0 last year.
You have to not look at the W's and L's... those things really don't matter.
What does matter is how the team is executing against other teams 1st stringers. You also have to consider depth. Depth can take a team a long way for a long time.
You have to put your stock in the right places. This team could lose the rest of these games but if they look good in them, in regards to the starters, I think something can be taken from that in a positive way.
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You have to look at guys making plays in the 4th quarter against other guys who will never make the roster and know that they are the future!
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 22, 2011 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a tough question
And one that really has no answer. I mean you have to analyze it as if the guy was dominating his own skill level, as in 2nd teamer dominating other 2nd teamers. This doesn’t mean they’ll dominate 1st stringers but it does mean they have the potential to play against 1st stringers.
I just came up with that, not sure if it made sense…
This might help , call them the ( one's or two's ) instead of stringers ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Was'nt it last year we were 4-0?
Better of losing.
Yeah and Nate Davis was our future....
shows why you don’t put much, if any, stock into preseason play and how that translates to the regular season.
by 9thevolution on Aug 22, 2011 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions
1st quarter, particularly the first 2 drives of games 2 and 3
do matter to a certain degree. People always use the Colts as the reason the pre-season means little, but they never play their starters..
It’s kind of like people saying the combine means nothing, but it does. It’s just that the 40 doesn’t mean much. The combine does tell scouts about how dedicated and disciplined athletes are out of college, how smart they are, certain physical attributes like arm length..
Pre-season games are won/lost in the 2nd half though, which involve mostly 2nd and 3rd stringers, and are largely irrelevant.
by whistlingmountain on Aug 22, 2011 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree that those are important plays...
but they do not in any way equate to success or determine much of anything in regards to the regular season. So many things can change as coaches are still trying to determine how far along certain aspects of their team is. This game, Harbs clearly wanted to evaluate the run game more than the pass, so that was the primary focus.
The example I like to use is our first drive last year against the Vikings in the preseason. Our offense was crisp and Smith was precise and decisive with the ball. None of that carried over to the regular season, and it resulted in an OC fired after three weeks and a team that started 0-5 against teams that weren’t exactly phenomenal.
by 9thevolution on Aug 22, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you took the wrong thing out of that drive
Just because they did it in the game doesn’t mean they’ll do it again. That’s the same as the regular season. They could go out and score a TD on a 90 yard drive to open the season, and struggle to move the ball for a month. That’s just the nature of football when the offense isn’t good, particularly at the beginning of the season.
All it means is that they’re potentially capable of doing it.
Honestly I think this pre-season’s early action will be more telling than any previous season. The short off-season is both forcing most starters to play at least a quarter and the defenses are blitzing and seemingly running more realistic defenses than previous years.
What Dennis Green said was true, there’s no magical transformation between the starters in the 3rd pre-season game 1st quarter, and the start of the season. Not some switch the coaches turn.
by whistlingmountain on Aug 22, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the best way to evaluate it is to always consider anyone who isn't a presumptive starter to be depth and nothing more
If we see dominating performances from some of these guys, but don’t let ourselves fall into the trap of believing that they’re starters, then there’s little to no room for disappointment.
You have to consider how these guys match up against a similar level of competition. If they prove better than opposing teams’ depth, then you let them stick around and maybe after some coaching they can elevate themselves to challenging for starting time. While the running joke is always good for a laugh, let’s not deem anyone as “our future.”
Good for assessing if a rookie is worth having on the roster
If they are borderline on being cut. Does nothing to show how good back-ups really are.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Aug 22, 2011 7:13 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
By position
In general you want to see proper execution of technique and football intelligence, since both sides of the ball are pretty vanilla.
Do your QBs identify coverages easily and know where to go with the ball?
Do your RBs “see 2 seconds into the future” and hit the hole as soon as it opens and go north south quickly?
Do your WRs run correct, crisp routes, shield the defender away from the ball and catch with both hands?
Do your linemen know how to use their feet and hands in both the run and passing game?
Do your D-linemen know how to get off blocks while maintaining gap responsibility?
Do your LBs take correct angles to the ball and make form tackles?
Do your DBs anticipate and identify routes being run? How quick are they to react when the ball is in the air?
by Ougadas on Aug 22, 2011 7:15 AM PDT reply actions 7 recs
RBs need to
good at pass protection as well … if a back is one dimensional, he is not worth keeping on the field. KS, and TC had major issues at that. Overall though great points!
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execution and technique rather than performance
seems to be the unifying factor in that assessment. Alot of fans, myself included, don’t have the background to properly assess technique, so we wait for big plays (performance) and then go back and justify how the technique allowed that to happen. I think that’s why a lot of us end up going down the wrong road claiming X player is our future.
how they stack up
I think there are 2 areas preseason is great for that we as fans don’t see but the coaches do:
1. How does the 49ers ability stack up against the rest of the league. I think there is a lot of value in seeing how guys match up against elite and crap units of other teams. Do we get physically out-matched? Are we fast or slow in relation to the league? Team practices can be misleading if units matching up are elite or sub par compared to the rest of the league
2. Do guys on the roster have the “It” factor. It gives the staff a chance to find the guys who have “Iverson-itis” and don’t practice well but are beasts in game situations. Also gives the coaches a chance to see which guys are pro-bowl practicers but choke in real game situations.
Move them to the next string...
as in Dobbs case. Started off at 3 vs NO showed good potential then played 2 against OAK.Since preseason give him a couple 1 reps since he dominated the 2 and you know what we have.
Demarcus Dobbs and Xavier Omon are our future!!!!!
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I tweet, therefore I am
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but I actually think Dobbs has a good shot at making the team. Omon, is a lonnnnng shot to make the team with Dixon and Hunter here.
But Dobbs has played head and shoulders better than Will Tukafu, who some think will be the back up behind Justin Smith. I’d say that is a coin toss at this point and that Dobbs has actually had more highlights. I don’t recall seeing Tukafu’s name called in the games so far much at all.
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But Dobbs has played head and shoulders better than Will Tukafu
Why are they playing with shampoo?
by Andrew9erfan on Aug 22, 2011 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep all 4 RB's on the roster
The three backups have seemed to do reasonably well in our first 2 games. It would be nice to have some quality depth during the regularly season. That way we can keep Gore fresh by using Hunter’s and Dixon’s complementary skills in the backfield with Xavier as insurance.
If we don’t cut back on his carries Frank’s going to hit the wall big time this year. Especially at his age
Got love for the WCC. Go Lions!
by SnakesOnAPlane on Aug 22, 2011 10:31 AM PDT reply actions
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