Ted Ginn - What am I missing?
by DaveintheUK on Aug 25, 2011 5:31 AM PDT
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So he rolls with the first team offense in practice, he starts pre-season games with the first team offense and almost every writer publishing a 53 man roster projection has him in there, not even on the bubble but right in the mix, opening day on the roster depending on the suspension and injury situation - starting!
But here on Niners Nation and virtually every fan reaction to articles, messageboards or anything else Ginn is on the bubble/ gonna be traded/Gonna be cut - did I miss a memo to all fans from Harbaugh saying 'ignore what we are doing and what everyone in the press is saying, Ginn's gone and we is just foolin'!
the man doesn't even seem to have the Alex smith apologist army (paid up member), just a bunch of 'we no likey you'
In some ways I can appreciate this fan reaction, I myself am not Ginn's no 1 fan. I mean, I was on hand 'well, in hand in the gents, leaking' when Ginn caught one of his awesome career 6 receiving touchdowns, at Wembley Stadium, cue rushing out of the gents doing up my fly running to see the replay on the scoreboard as I missed like my first ever 'live' TD - useless Ginn, bad timing nightmare fool!
And frankly the man is so fast he has been more open more often than than Chad Ochocinco's mouth, but his hands of stone have killed him as he has had a four year career and managed 6 receiving touchdowns after playing in over 60 games. Last year with the 9ers, and fair is fair, the stone-age offense, he had a huge 12, yes thats 12, receptions - hardly Captain Fantastic.
But then when someone puts foot to pigskin Ginn comes alive, Devin Hester he ain't but boy o' boy that 78 yd TD Punt return vs the Rams last year was awesome, after 2009's who can fumble the most competition the Niners had going on during punt and kick off returns, after repeatedly watching other teams punt and kick from a position hiding behind the sofa like I hadn't done since watching Dr Who at the age of 7, I was looking at someone who knew what they were doing.
Then we get round to this off-season and for all the list of RoJo's and Williams and Long's - Ginn actually has experience, the coaches seem to like him, he is apparently doing the biz in practice and I think we can all give him a break after the wall of air that was the blocking vs the Saints meant QB's couldn't get a pass out let alone in his direction. At least he caught a pass vs the Raiders, it's harsh but 'thats good for Ginn'.
I am not suggesting anyone has to like him but does anyone even want to wait and see what the team does before they write Ginn off? I mean the dude has almost as many rushing touchdowns (2) as he does receiving, tell me Harbaugh isn't going to find a way to utilise the speed of the man, and if he don't I could at least watch the TV without disturbing the dust behind the sofa.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Not much mystery here
I think the general consensus is we’re glad to have Ginn returning kicks, but we’re cautious about losing a WR prospect to keep Ginn on the roster and are willing to let Ginn go if we have a returner we’re comfortable in playing.
Ginn’s playing time probably indicates the coaching staff values him more than the fans. It’s hard to say if the coaches are comfortable yet with any other returners and if any bubble WRs would be considered a good prospect.
That said, I personally do not want to see stone hands higher than 4 on the depth chart, even if Crabs is hurt.
by mrg80 on Aug 25, 2011 7:51 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I like Ginn and I think he'll make the roster
it’s just he hasn’t shown much value as a receiver in the past http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYSxJgjjJFc
and players who start off that slow don’t usually bounce back. Hope he does, but the odds are even more against him than Alex Smith, since Ginn never had the “flashes of brilliance” that Alex Smith has had
I'm one of Ginn's detractors. My reasons are personal...
I played college football, and had a Ginn-like teammate, a wide receiver with incredible speed. However, my teammate helped us lose about 3 games (in our two years as teammates, back then we played 10 game seasons, so that’s 15% of our games) that we very well could have won, by either going out of bounds or going down in order to avoid a hit, when he was very close to a first down that he might have easily picked up had he tried to do so. Two of these were on 4th down, all were in the 4th quarter. Had he just TRIED to pick up the 1st, even if he didn’t make it, I would feel very differently.
When Ginn was with the Dolphins, I watched games in which I saw him do this same thing at least twice. Players like that will let you down when it matters the most, you can’t depend on them.
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
by OldJock on Aug 25, 2011 11:08 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Good point
It almost makes you want to ask the question, “does this guy have heart?” You can have all the talent in the world, but if you don’t “put it all out there” against defenses that do, then it’s likely you won’t find much success.
by Waiting4JoshMorgan on Aug 26, 2011 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Ginn
I think some of the reactions (including some of my own) are often a knee jerk reaction, much like bashing football ops when things aren’t going quite so bad.
Coach Harbaugh has been high on Ginn thus far so maybe there is something legit there. I’m curious to see his performance this Saturday.
Has he caught a ball in the preseason yet?
"The principle is competing against yourself. It's about self improvement, about being better than you were the day before." ~Steve Young #8
by Young_To_Rice on Aug 25, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
stats
1 receptions for 6 yards against the Raiders. Nothing against the Saints.
by David Fucillo on Aug 25, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Harbaugh said he also includes practice when evaluating the players. So he probably has been really good during practice.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
personally saw ted ginn jr get jammed at the line by an udfa rookie and looked like ginn made no real effort during the play. on the juggs machine personally saw ted ginn drop almost every ball. from what I personally saw ted ginn jr did not look anywhere near decent in practice. but I saw only a few of the practices and he could have looked all-pro in when I was not there.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Those couple that you attended are enough to show/ prove he doesn't belong.
Gotta trade him to the Raiders or something… at this point I’d be happy with a 6th/ 7th.
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i would be happy as long as he is off the team or does not play on offense
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
He was our stud yesterday lol
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Aug 28, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
he must have looked like an all pro at the practices you didn't attend...
because this is the FIRST I’ve heard of him struggling in practice. All indicates (Barrows, Harbaugh, Roman, etc.,) have all had positive things to say about him.
No they haven't.
None of the coaches have said much of anything about Ginn.
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Do you expect that he might not be around, be available in Week One. Does that come into play where, if WR Ted Ginn is going to be starting in Week One, then it makes sense to have him starting in these games as well. Does that part of it play into the starting units?
“Well I think Ted has had an incredibly good camp, too. Whatever reps Ted gets, or whatever status Ted gets, Ted has earned it. It’s day to day, really with all of our players. We try to make each position as strong as possible. One of the affects of that is great competition. Guys that are competing and getting the job done are going to play. Luckily for us, we’ve got a really good group of core wide receivers that continue to improve, so it’s very exciting.”
Meh… still doesn’t say much.
It’s practice. I hope he plays more today. He’s not really getting on the field… even with Crabs being out and all that. Sort of more telling than a generic “he’s having a good camp” statement by Roman.
Anyway, if he somehow magically has better hands this year then he deserves a spot. If not, he doesn’t. And that’s where I am at with it.
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well
It does say he had a great camp and is a coach saying so. Coaches have in fact been positive on him and that’s an example. Whether it means anything is another thing entirely.
by David Fucillo on Aug 27, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I see the example.
But in all fairness to their statements, they’ve said the same thing about some players that may not make the team. This is why I am not putting a ton of stock in the comment.
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and that's fine
It’s just an acknowledgment of positive comments.
by David Fucillo on Aug 27, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't speaking to just that one comment...
I gave that as one example of several other comments from beat writers, and other coaches. The only negative comment (aside from a few writers saying that Ginn has dropped a few balls at times) is HUNGRY HUNTER’s comment. No disrespect at all (everyone seems incredibly knowledgeable here), but I happen to trust the other things I read a bit more.
I would agree with you that it probably doesn’t mean anything if that was the only example, but it’s really not. All I’m really talking about is a case for him to make the team, I’m not saying he’ll turn into a great player.
I said it before, but I think people overreact when a WR drops a ball. In my opinion, there are several people who hold grudges against the guy. He’s frustrating to watch, but still holds value as a return guy and still has some potential as a WR despite his struggles. He’s only 26 years old, it’s not a big roll of the dice to hold onto him. It will only cost you Ziggy or some other career practice squad player
As long as he is burried on the depth chart either 5th or 6th
and can hang on to the ball during punts, I have no problem with him being on the roster.
I just would hate to see a guy like Long, or Jurovich not be able to suit up as a true WR (with upside at the position) to keep a dime a dozen return specialist.
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I'm a little surprised....
that Ginn is in the favor of this coaching staff. He seems like the exact opposite of what would be needed in the harboffense. He’s not a physical blocker…he’s more of a deep threat than a RAC type…gets open beyond the defense rather than in front of it.
I’m even more surprised to see Morgan dropping out of the top tier talk. I feel like morgan fits into the WCO receiver mold than does Ginn.
But hey, if harbo has a plan for ginn, and can make the most of his talents, then i’m pretty excited. ginn could be a game changer.
see, now this is where I am at
I mean the coaches have to be seeing something, but I just cannot see what it is.
Exactly
This is a rational reasonable response. I don’t understand why everyone wants to cut the guy… What’s the point? I would be fine cutting him if we were going to replace him with someone with more upside, but I don’t think that would be the case (Long, Ziggy, etc.,).
I really feel like people just want to cut him because they don’t like him. There has always been strong overreaction to receivers who drop passes. Much more so than receivers who have other issues in their game.
Long or Ziggy would contribute more than Ginn.
Both can actually catch passes.
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And catch the passes thrown their direction more often than Ginn.
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The twighlight zone
2012 – Alex Smith is a probowl QB fueled by a 1500 yard probowl season from Ted Ginn.
zing
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Ginn does serve a purpose
Special teams and deep passing threat. The problem last year is that the Singletary regime seemed against any kind of vertical passing game, and when they DID employ it, they used Crabs and Morgan, the much slower compared to Ginn receivers, instead. Just send him on the occasional deep route every once in awhile, and if he is open, chuck him the ball. He is good about the catching the deep ball, anything underneath/in the middle of the defense, then you’ll have some problems
all i saw was ginn dropping deep balls
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions
just the whole season LOL
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
that's funny
considering the never really used him to go deep, except in the last game when Sing was gone, and wouldn’t you know, he caught a deep TD from Smith…..haters gonna hate
by sanfranfanmdk on Aug 27, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
that sounds like you are suggesting he did a porn movie..
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
sounds like you’re describing one of the movies he made with lance long
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
am i the only one that likes smith AND ginn
by westxniner on Aug 25, 2011 9:09 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Smith seems a likeable chap
I certainly want him to succeed, not entirely sure I have the faith he can succeed but I want him to and ginn, I imagine he’s a nice guy, no-one ever complained he was a horrible person….
….sorry do you mean in the football sense? I think you might be on your own there…I will never forgive Ginn the football player for making one of the few big receiving plays he’s made, whilst I was in the toilet.
unless he puts in that 1500yd season someone mentioned above – and TD’s, lots of TD’s, no empty trashtime yards
Hmmm , lets see Fandom or coaches , well since3 me and Harbaugh are usually on the same page , i'm gonna stick with coaches ... Ginn has a nice productive year as returner and 3rd Wideout ..!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
3rd wide out over Morgan or Williams.
Doubful.
Besides, the coaches have not been raving about him or anything like that. I have not really heard much of anything about him to be honest. Not from Harbaugh, not from Roman.
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Yup , he shares time with both , once Crabs regains # 2 .. you should know this , thats the way me and the staff think ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
Punt returns
I think we underestimate the value of a very good punt returner. If our defense starts to perform at a high level this year that will create a lot of opportunities for Ginn to return punts. There may be issues with his technique that the coaches feel he can fix.
I still can’t understand how the guy can catch punts but not a spiral. maybe Alex needs to throw knuckleballs at him.
by odiez42 on Aug 26, 2011 4:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
shawn hill
maybe we should trade him to detroit if Stafford goes down again
"Shaun"
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Aug 26, 2011 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I have been thinking about the catching punts but not receptions
Obviously there are two main differences
1. facing the play
2. amount of movement
I think it might be a vision thing, he can pick the ball out well when he is facing the play and not moving but when running and looking back over his shoulder on those deep route co-ordinators send him on he is looking over his shoulder and is not picking the ball out well.
I know he is not the traditional type of receiver for the job and his build would probably see him getting maimed quickly but I honestly think he might be better on slant routes and catching across the middle (if he’s brave enough).
Its pointless to have him do hooks or comebacks because although he might pick up the ball better you negate his key speed asset. the slant though would allow him to benefit of being able to be more face on to the ball and his quickness over the middle might keep him safe (err possibly).
Any thoughts?
Braylon Edwards
also had a number of problems with drops, a problem that he fixed over the last two seasons. If anyone can help Ginn, it’s probably Edwards.
What has Ginn shown as a WR?
Our 2 starters our not starting right now, and the rest of our WR’s are Josh Morgan and a bunch of youngsters. IMO, Ginn is starting by default.
Unless we see dramatic improvements in his hands and route running (which I don’t see happening, because he isn’t particularly agile despite his great long speed, and there is only so much you can do to improve your hands), I don’t see any reason to stay optimistic.
"Fatigue makes cowards out of men" - Vince Lombardi
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