Scouts Inc Breaks Down Players Teams Can't Game-Plan Against
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 12:01 PM PDT
in San Francisco 49ers News
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Over at ESPN, the folks at Scouts Inc are starting to publish all their preview content for the 2011 NFL season. They're projecting a 6-10 record and a spot in the cellar for the 49ers. They're projecting St. Louis at 9-7 and Seattle and Arizona at 7-9. I'm always down for less respect heading into the season. Several times over the last five years the 49ers have been the chic pick to win the NFC West and each time they've gone up in a ball of flames. No respect is better for this team.
Along with the basic previews, Scouts Inc. put together a list of 32 players (one from each team) that are impossible to game-plan against. They named it the V-Factor after Michael Vick. Take that however you want. For the San Francisco 49ers, KC Joyner went with linebacker Patrick Willis. Not a shocker:
Every team enters a game against the 49ers with a plan to block him. But the four-year vet's career average of 9.4 tackles per game shows that few of them have found a scheme that works. Even if teams do get a man in front of him, Willis has the ability to evade him (26 career stuffs and 15 sacks).
In reality, each of the 32 players (and Vick) cane be game-planned against in some way. Most games they are going to wreak havoc, but once in a while they'll have a down game (avoiding the thunderbolt).
I think you could make an argument that Justin Smith is right up there with Willis in terms of tough players to game-plan against. Willis has the higher upside, but last season Smith was an absolute monster on the field. Although he often doesn't accumulate the gaudy tackle or sack statistics, there is no doubt that Justin Smith is as consistent a force in pressuring opposing quarterbacks as anybody in the 49ers defense.
Maybe Aldon Smith can develop into that down the road. Maybe Patrick Willis is adding improved pass rusher to his repertoire. For now though, Justin Smith remains an essential aspect of the pass rush. It's kind of bizarre considering the role we often see with 3-4 defensive ends as guys opening up holes for the outside linebackers. However, Smith is much more of a hybrid defensive end that can do just about anything on the field.
A guy like Vernon Davis might also be in the mix for difficulty to game-plan against, but as it stands I think Patrick Willis and Justin Smith are at the top of the list. Any other guys on the roster at this point that fit this role?
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Justin Smith is ProFootballFocus' favorite player
The guys over at PFF are great and year after year they say Justin Smith is one of the best players in the league. I’ve heard one of them say he is top-5 from all players in the league. Now that might be a little too much but the truth is he is in on every play and never gives up.
PFF
I like the basic counting stats they track (pressures, drops, etc) but I question their proprietary rating system.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I question that too
but everything else I love
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
YOU CAN'T GAME PLAN FOR ALEX SMITH
because, it would be, you know, kind of pointless.
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by zenbitz on Sep 1, 2011 12:23 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Smith
I was going to make a sarcastic comment in the post about it, but decided otherwise.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
You guys manage to get Alex involved in almost all posts
It’s really quite impressive in the negative.
I couldn't resist
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The Game Plan Against Alex Smith
Is get pressure on him until he loses his composure, then play the run.
Play to Win!
That's the game plan against every QB
It works on Payton and Tom Brady too. It’s a shame they actually see consistant pressure like once or twice a year.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Sep 1, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty much
Did you watch the Pats game when they were actually hitting Brady every play? He looked abysmal. His only touchdown was on a blown coverage where Welker had nobody within 20 yards of him.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Sep 1, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Is this a joking reference made to someone here
Or is this just an epic counting fail
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Sep 1, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Some QBs thrive under pressure
I guy like Cutler takes a hard sack crawl back on his feet for the next play and throw a 30-yard strike in stride.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
No doubt
but he’s a qb with highs and lows. But at least there are highs.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
There are high's with Smith too.
You just chose to ignore them and not acknowledge them.
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Are you back again? /sigh
I acknowledge the few and far between highs Smith brings. Cutler is a far more exciting QB and plays in an offense that requires him to take a lot of hits. I just wish Alex could bounce off the lows in the same way Cutler demonstrates.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
this makes more sense
Subject line aside, this is a good point. When things get ugly things seem to really get ugly it seems like Smith really goes to pieces at times.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Saints game
Eagles game
Oakland game
2nd Seahawks game
2nd Cardinals game
were all good and respectable considering ALL factors.
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The choatic dysfunctional coaching.
Changing QB’s three times in a season. Bad Oline play even in the games he did better in, etc.
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WR's letting passes bounce off their chest's and hands, missed blocks in pass-pro by RB's...
Just a lack of help across the board
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Aside from his asinine fumble in the Eagles game
He was the best player on our offense. Which says a lot about how bad everybody else played.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Sep 1, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Many of those games would have been different had Smith been good throughout the entire game
it just really isn’t enough to have one or two good drives in a sixty minute game.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
numbers
I think it was more than one or two good drives in some of those games, but I understand the point you’re making. Too many mistakes mixed in cost the team in several of those games.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I go back to the Saints game early last year...
I thought Smith showed a LOT in that game and never let any of the adversity get him down.
He was not the reason we lost. I would argue he was the primary reason we almost won…
by ColoradoNiner on Sep 1, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the exact subjective type of comment I am talking about.
It is impossible for you to admit he played good at any point in his career.
The Saints game he lead the team down the field, he threw a TD pass, and then he threw a 2 point conversion to tie. The defense lost but somehow he played bad? I really don’t get what you expect from a QB… seems like perfection, or something.
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So 5 games in a season is a complete account of Alex Smith's performance last year?
I seem to recall being winless until the Raiders had mercy on us. A minority of good games do not balance the majority of bad and mediocre games. They balance out to less than average in fact.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
But there's no more context to those games than Alex Smith in your mind.
So what is the point of even discussing football with you?
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Please don't blatantly lie about me
It is super rude. I get that you only want to discuss the positive no matter how slight. That doesn’t mean much when there is a bigger picture.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not a lie.
It has been plastered all over these boards.
To you, Alex Smith is the problem. It’s pretty clear that you do not consider very important information that ties in to the “poor performances” when he has them.
And you are fully incapable of admitting he ever played good at anytime in his career.
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You fully can't admit I do admit Alex plays well sometimes
its even evidenced on this thread. Stop lying about me.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
how about his user name
Considering how awful some folks think Alex Smith is, calling him average counts as positive!
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
honestly
At the end of the day, this is a place to talk about a game. NOBODY should be taking this super seriously aside from getting into the nuts and bolts of analysis.
Can’t we all just get along?
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
You honestly don't read my comments or understand them if you believe that
But you don’t have to go very far back to see me acknowledge Smith can play well. It is on this thread and on many others. I just ask that you don’t lie about me when the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Funny you thinkin his user name as a positive , it might be a slight but by no means does it state otherwise ...!!
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Saints game
That’s exactly the point he’s making. He had three good drives but he made some serious mistakes in that game as well. The defense cost them late, but his performance wasn’t exactly great for good chunks of the game.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So you are claiming he played crappy the entire game>
C’mon Fooch…
I am sure the game is on youtube somewhere. We can post it here and watch it again if you’d like. He did not play that entire game horrible; he in fact played really good the entire game when the Oline gave him time to get the ball off. If that were true, they would not have been in a position to win at the end.
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Well at least I don't feel alone now
you blatantly mischaracterize Fooch just like you do me.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
see my response to your comment...
I don’t throw around the word blatant, but I do think you mischaracterized my comment when you said “So you are claiming he played crappy the entire game”
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
no
I think you’ve misunderstood the original comment:
it just really isn’t enough to have one or two good drives in a sixty minute game.
In response to that comment I said that it was actually three good drives but I understood the point. Nowhere did I saw he played crappy the entire game. Did you not see this line in my comment?
He had three good drives but he made some serious mistakes in that game as well.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
He had more than three good drives in that game. Just because every drive does not result in 6, does it mean it was bad.
Field position plays a big factor in games too.
Also, he could only go with the lame play-calls that were coming in from the booth. It’s really a contextual thing that can easily be ignored.
Even Joe Montana recognized that Smith is put in a ton of third and long situations. Or has been. There is so much more than just “he had a few good drives” to consider. There are limitations to what you can do if things are in and of themselves limited. I mean, Frank Gore touched the ball almost 30 times in that game. The defense knew that the ball was going to go to Frank. And despite that, Alex still thrived in the “litiations” that Raye gave him.
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drives
I just did a cursory look, but yes there are some extenuating circumstances. He did make mistakes in the game, but few QBs are perfect (unless it’s Pats fans talking at Brady who’s wicked awesome).
I was more trying to clarify that I was not in fact saying he had a crappy game as my comment had been initially characterized. I might have underestimated his performance but I never said it was a crappy performance.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
But if he only has three good drives, I’d argue that is pretty crappy.
I just feel that far too much blame is put on Smith by some. And too little credit is given when he does in fact deserve it.
And to clarify, I do not mean to say you are in that equation. Because I have in fact seen you admit to good performances or give things context in posts, etc
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crappy
You said:
So you are claiming he played crappy the entire game
Saying he had three good drives is NOT saying he played crappy the entire game. I think that’s pretty clear.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Three drives is only three drives, still. I would say that only having three drives is a pretty crappy game. If we are speaking in terms of technicalities, I suppose I am wrong. for saying the “entire” game.
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Let's all agree to go five games into the season
Before we judge Alex Smith any more this season.
Play to Win!
Easier said than done.
I am all for it, but I know it won’t go down like that. The first INT he throws in those 5 games, it will be “ope, here we go again” for some.
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Week 2 and 4 will be the most telling
He needs to avoid being the reason we lose those games and maybe if we are lucky the reason we win them.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Dallas and @ Philly?
So what if he plays good in one and bad in the other? Then what?
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It will depend on the context
But if we are 0-4, context won’t be mattering by then.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
context
The problem right now is that all this discussion is in the abstract.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
that's all I was trying to clarify
It’s a technicality, but as I viewed it, it completely changed the context of my point.
I honestly think a lot of arguments on this site (in generally, not pointing specifically to these latest ones) are because of the technicalities. A light omission, or a slight assumption about a point changes the entire context of a point that was made.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
In some cases, yeah.
Others, not so much. Some are pretty blunt about their thoughts.
Me being one of them at times.
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technicalities
Furthermore, the Internet lacks a lot of context, which means people generally should (but don’t) read comments as literally as possible.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I literally think we should wait five games before continuing the Alex Smith conversation
Play to Win!
And then...
I know you are but what am I.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
If he sucks
I will be the first to admit it.
But I also won’t ignore things like the Oline playing bad, or the WR’s dropping passes, or the RB missing blocking assignments.
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it's hard to be a good QB on a crappy team
and if Alex plays poorly and the 49ers still win we will forgive him.
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hit the nail on the head
Just Win Baby (sorry for mixing in some silver and black).
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I seem to recall...
That was only the second game of the year and there were a number of dropped passes that may not have been perfect but were very catchable. The team had a lot of issues, and yet he still managed several strong drives and the drive near the end of the game he did just about EVERYTHING you could hope for from a QB.
No, not a perfect game, but a good overall performance were he held tough and played strong through the end…
by ColoradoNiner on Sep 1, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
depends
He’s shown moments, but has he every had an overall solid game from start to end? He’s had a strong fourth quarter here, a big drive there, an awesome pass. But how many complete games has he ever really put together? As I said in the comment below, it really depends on the length to which we’re defining “highs.” I think there is a productive discussion to be had here.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Seachickens and Cards last year
We don’t have the type of offensive line for him to have good games against teams with a big pass rush.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Sep 1, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
For the Alex haters, what touchdown/interception ratio do you feel a QB needs
before you’ll consider him at least a journeyman NFL QB?
See my post near the bottom….
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
highs
When you reference no highs from other players, I’m going to assume you mean Smith (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong). My question is, his ability to connect with Vernon Davis, his stretches of impressive play (vs. Seattle in 2006, some of his comeback drives against the Cardinals), when you say highs are you holding it to entire games of highs? I’d like to clarify that if you are indeed inferring Smith with this comment. Please clarify.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
The highs are rare and often not relevant to the outcome of the game
That game your reference from 5 years ago might have been Smith’s best performance. That’s thin gruel at this point.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Smith in 2006
I’ll contend till the day I die that losing Norv Turner was the biggest difference-maker in where Alex Smith was moving and where he ended up. While his second year wasn’t spectacular by any measurement, he showed marked improvement under Turner. I don’t think he was ever going to be a superstar quarterback, but I still believe he was showing that in the right system he could be a very serviceable quarterback.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
His year last year was better than 2006 and he had worse circumstances.
He has gotten better each year in spite of the circumstances and instability.
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last year versus 2006
His stats were better, but I think he was on a much better career trajectory following 2006 than he is right now. That’s not to say he can’t turn it around like other QBs who figured it out late. But I just think his career took a significant turn after 2006. The shoulder injury hurt, but I think it had more to do with losing Turner, and particularly so late in the coach search process.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he has shown a lot of progress as the years move forward. He understands the game better each year. He makes some bone-headed plays sometimes but the same could be said for every single player in the NFL.
The 49ers as a team have been crap on a stick for the since Smith was drafted (and even before that).
I just see all the context for what it is and cannot bring myself to blame and ridicule Alex Smith for all the problems this team has had over the past 6 years.
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Smith
I certainly don’t blame or ridicule him for all the problems. But he has also been a factor in the problems at times. Maybe not the biggest factor, but a factor nonetheless.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
They've all been factors.
From the top to the bottom. I have never claimed he hasn’t been part of the blame. I have screamed at him and cursed him in games just like everyone else.
But the difference is that I take everything in to consideration and not just blame the quarterback every time something goes wrong. I point the fingers in the right directions accordingly.
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2006 he also had Larry Allen
and more specifically Frank Gore had Larry Allen. He has improved every year and was playing great out of the box in year 3 till our O-line failed him and he got buried.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Sep 1, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
But do you need to game-plan against our offensive line?
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
They will get better, They have the most important, and the toughest job
They are big guys that have to move quickly, make quick decisions, and know what every other of the five guys is doiing at all times while keeping track of 11 defenders.
Play to Win!
I originally thought that too
but a couple days ago when I suggest the offensive line coaches should be accountable for preseason week 3, people were saying the line were just getting flat beat 1v1 and it is skill you develop in high school and isn’t coachable.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
They're Wrong
The skills you develop in high school are a completely different level than the NFL. We have stout blockers, and they did look a little tired last weekend. Antonio Smith did look like a Pro Bowler against them I guess, but I wouldn’t worry that is going to be the norm in the regular season.
Our offensive line is going to need a few more weeks to get full speed. It’s important to have a good center and to have consistency on the line. The coaches I think have finally decided who those five are going to be after the right amount of competition.
Don’t ever get discouraged or exited in the pre-season. 0-4 n the pre-season doesn’t mean a thing. We went 4-0 last season, as did the Lions when they managed the first 0-16 season ever.
Play to Win!
hmm.
I suggest we…
stay with me here.
RUSH the passer!
How does that grab you!
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We have the playmakers
now hopefully the coaches and do something awesome with this talent
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They will all have to sweep the 49ers to get to these predicted records
The Rams have a tough shedule they will definately have to sweep the 49ers and the Seahawks to get to 9-7
.
The Seahawks will then have to go 7-7 against the 49ers, Steelers, Cardinals, Falcons, Giants, Browns, Bengals, Cowboys, Ravens, Redskins, Eagles, and Bears.
.
To do that they probably have to sweep both the Cardinals and the 49ers.
Then the Cardinals having been swept by both the Rams and the Seahawks have to go 7-5 against the Panthers, Redskins, Giants, Vikings, Steelers, Ravens, Eagles, 49ers, Cowboys, Browns, and Bengals.
I don’t even think that is likely if they sweep the 49ers.
Which means the 49ers having been swept by the Rams, Seahawks, and Cardinals have to get 6 wins against the Cowboys, Bengals, Eagles, Buccaneers, Lions, Browns, Redskins, Giants, Ravens, and Steelers.
To me it looks like ESPN expects the 49ers to go 0-6 in the weakest division in the league but then go 6-4 outside our division?
I don’t think so ESPN. TRY AGAIN. 49ers go 9-7, Rams go 7-9, Seahawks go 6-10, Cardinals go 6-10.
Play to Win!
predicting the entire NFC West
to go 7-9 seems pretty practical to me. Then any team could go +/- 2 wins on pure luck, so there’s your worthless prediction of the week.
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The "Players you can't plan for"
Too bad it’s an insider article.
But the ones they listed in the “teaser” made me laugh. Like the Fooch said, most everyone in the NFL can be game-planned against with some level of success.
game-planning
There were some interesting ones. For example, defensive end Matt Shaughnessy of the Raiders:
After two seasons in the league, Shaughnessy may not be a big name yet, but he’s certainly one of the most active defensive linemen in the game. In 2010, he recorded a combined 66 tackles, sacks, passes defensed and forced fumbles, a total that ranked 20th among all linemen.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
My game plan
Block him with a tackle. Deal with the 3.5 tackles and half sack he’s averaging — which is pretty close to what he did last year.
4 tackles, 1 sack. Non-factor. Not very interesting. And that was one of his better games.
Heck, the only thing I care about is tonight!
Can the 9ers show they have down the basic X’s and O’s and prove they can block somebody so our Q.B. can execute a simple play without him getting rushed or jacked up.
Secondly, want to see Aldon Smith cause a bit of havoc, cause the last 2 pre-season games he his been quiet.
Eh
I do and I don’t. As much as I’m glad to finally have football, I’m exhausted from the preseason/training camp and having to guess whether or not Harbaugh and co. are hiding some things (partially because I believe it and partially because I have to in order to stay sane).
I just want the games to matter and see what we really are like.
Wanna say f them, but maybe this lack of respect is what we need
Go niners, come on o’line let’s rock
by mrb24 on Sep 1, 2011 1:10 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Respect is earned...
and if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit we have yet to earn any respect…
by ColoradoNiner on Sep 1, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
The Rams are getting the same respect we got last year.
Who cares what these media outlets think. I would rather the team over achieve then get hyped up and come out after 5 games with their pants on the ground like last year
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by EcERyda69 on Sep 1, 2011 1:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Alex could play the entire 1st half
And Kaep the 3rd and most of the 4th. But I think we will finally in tonight’s game see McCown
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give Alex some playing time before he heads to the bench for the season.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 1, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
bench
Sorry to disappoint you but he’s starting the season as starting QB. Whether people like it or not, that’s a fact.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
until he heads to the bench like the previous six seasons, only this time will most likely be his last.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 2, 2011 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd prefer...
McBLT. There’s nothing new to be seen with McCown.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
not to say....
he should be on the roster. Try and stick him on the practice squad. But would at least be nice to see some game action from him. I don’t think you learn much in the way of positive given the level of competition in the fourth quarter, but if he’s awful, you might know something negative.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Well he could be on the practice squad, so it's a good idea to see what he's got.
See if he is worth it.
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I don't want any valuable players (Smith Included) to play tonight.
This is a pointless and meaningless game and it would suck to have a starter get injured against 2nd string players. Our o-line would look good against 2nd stringers, so why risk injury.
As a fan I want to see them play, but as a fan, it would suck to have a huge injury in this game.
I want to see Smith take the team down the field on the opening drive, score a TD and then take the rest of the night off
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too, that would be amazing.
Tired of seeing stalled drives, even in the preseason. One solid TD-scoring drive would just make me so happy…
The Rams have to be considered
the favorites to win the West this season. But I will say that the 49ers are a close second with both Arizona and Seattle lagging behind.
ESPN really has no idea what it is talking about in regards to projects. They had the Dallas Cowboys in the top five this time last season with the Steelers in the teens. It really is a crock if you ask me.
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Sep 1, 2011 2:19 PM PDT reply actions
not that I want to defend espn
but most people thought dallas would be good… pittsburgh was underrated because everyone thought they would be 0-4 or 1-3 to start the season without roethlisberger… While I hate that they have our niners at 6-10, I think more like 8-8, but at the end of the day, does it even matter? either way we miss the playoffs…
I would agree...
but they appear to have the piece we are missing… an up and coming QB of the future. Bradford looks like he is the real deal, and that is coming from a guy that HATED that pick.
we'll see
Kaepernick is the guy they seemingly want to groom. Not sure he qualified as “up and coming” yet, but hopefully he reaches that point.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Look, Alex
is what Alex is… I think he is a great person, and deserves to have a team around him and a coaching staff behind him to give him the kind of chance that many successful QB’s have enjoyed… It has never happened here, and in a lot of way I wish he would have left in the offseason, as much for his own good as anything else. I believe Alex had a chance at being a great NFL QB… but now, I think he may be “shell-shocked” beyond the point of no return.
QBs
I don’t know if he was ever going to be “great” but I think he could have been a very solid QB. I also think league history has shown the light can switch on later in careers for QBs. I’m not holding my breath because it’s generally the exception and not the rule. But a guy can hope.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
great was probably too strong a word...
Rich Gannon comes to mind as far as your point is concerned, but there are a lot more examples of guys that get drafted high to horrible teams only to get their brains beat out for a few years, that are never able to recover and form even decent careers…
And then there are the ones like Steve Young
Got killed/shattered in Tampa, then brought in to the niners, allowed to recover while getting good coaching, then became a HOF quarterback who won a superbowl.
by OffensiveInterference on Sep 1, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
excellent point...
I think the recovery time was essential… if not, he would have gotten Jerry killed with his high throws.
Didn't he play one season with TB
And win the team’s MVP? Saying he was shattered seems a little dramatic.
Per wiki
The Buccaneers posted 2–14 records in each of Young’s two seasons with them, and Young’s record as starter was 3–16. In his 19 games, he threw for only 11 touchdowns with 21 interceptions while completing fewer than 55% of his passes. Although his time in Tampa Bay was miserable, San Francisco 49ers coach Bill Walsh was impressed by Young’s natural abilities and felt that his problems were due to the struggling Bucs organization.
by OffensiveInterference on Sep 1, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
If he never had the talent to be “great” then how was he even considered as the #1 overall selection in the 2005 draft.
I am not saying all #1 should pan out, but what I am saying is every #1 pick has the potential to be awesome. Some pan out, some don’t but I think their individual case by case situations have a lot to do with that.
I think even a guy like Ryan Leaf had the physical tools to be a “great” QB but there was a lot of other things to consider.
And I think back when Alex was drafted, the physical tools were there. If he had been drafted by Bill Walsh versus the staff in ’05, he could have very well been “great”. Situations mean a lot.
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talent versus going to be
I never said thing one about talent. I simply said I personally didn’t think he was going to turn out “great.” I thought he could be very solid, which I’d have enjoyed perfectly fine. We’re getting into different labels that are entirely subjective.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I am hoping Alex is the guy still.
But if he just even plays serviceable, I think it would be good for him to give us 2-3 years. Not saying Kaep cannot get in there sooner but I think it would be best for his career.
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A decade of Alex Smith
What a dream come true.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
So if he turns out being a lot better than you think, are you going to hate that?
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of course not
At the end of the day we just want a winning team. That’s it. It’d be great if it was because we had the next coming of Joe Montana or Steve Young. But if Smith is solid and the 49ers are winning, people will be happy.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you sure that encompasses everyone? ’Cause I think there is some out there that will detail every mistake and criticize no matter what he does.
I remember people complaining about Steve Young like this. And he was criticized by every little mistake up until he won the Superbowl.
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Well he was no Joe Montana....
Play to Win!
by Pat Willie on Sep 1, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well then...
it’s simple. Alex just needs to win the Super Bowl. That’s simple enough.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll take a deep run into the playoffs :)
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
screen shot!
I have to, ’cause I may not ever get to see it again.
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YOu realize this is like the 4th or 5th time you've acted surpised by a positive comment of mine?
Or you don’t realize it?
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
About as often as Smith plays consistently well
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
where's the rimshot
Drew, you walked right into that one.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
How about...
A season over .500? Can we start with baby steps in case the NFC West shocks all of us?
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
a season over .500
would represent an opportunity at a playoff run… the two can be equally true… jesus this division sucks.
Well if the team does
and he does not look like Neil O’Donnel in that game, it will certainly help the perception out there.
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wow...
that was the worst SB performance I can think of. I think Neil was on the take in that game… he was throwing the ball to that Brown guy all game long. There weren’t even Pittsburgh receivers in the area.
and he sucked
thats just it… the only reason he got those picks is because he was out of position… which begs the question, what in the hell was o’donell doing throwing the ball anywhere near the guy?
i absolutely agree
that game should have been investigated. its funny to listen to old cowboys talk about his ‘MVP’ award- they are happy they won, and they dont hate the guy, but its clear they feel he was handed two picks despite being the worst player on that defense.
Cowboys fans
Being rational about one of their players…unheard of.
Neil O'Donnell
best remembered for his rare black/white yellow/silver color blindness… an unfortunate combination to be sure.
its like being in training camp
he is just making sure he is in mid-season form… good for you rider.
Did I hear that last year?
Or the year before? Or was it the year before that? Maybe the year prior?
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
But hey, why not three more years? That should be just enough to run Harbaugh out of town if Smith remains on the same trajectory.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If he perform poorly this year
It’s highly unlikrly that they’ll bring him back next year.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 1, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely
we know there are zero other QBs available in the next 1-3 years that could do better. Might as well lock him in for good.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I tend to agree with you, but as you could see last year,
an up and coming QBOTF does not mean wins. The Rams still have quite a few holes on their roster, and the Niners do not. One mediocre-to-average QB does not a crappy team make.
It starts with the offensive line.
Their Oline is young and very good.
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We have a much more unproven coaching staff, though.
I’d say we have the ability to be the top of the division, and I do agree that we have the most talent. But as predictions go, it’s fair to say the Rams are the most likely to win the division.
But to rank Seattle and Arizona over the Niners? That really strikes me as a reaction to the hype and disappointment of last year rather than a fair approach to the team’s prospects. The media got burned by the Niners last year, and don’t want it to happen again. Funny thing is, I’d say it’s likely to happen all over again, but in reverse.
As far as 'zona goes...
it all comes down to Kolb… Arizona was the best in this division (not saying much I know) until warner retired… That made everything fall apart for them. Kolb is no Warner, I know… but is he good enough to pull the team back together? We will see.
I still think he will wind up playing safety.
He will take over for Adrian Wilson when he retires.
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The team has changed since Warner was the QB,
And it wasn’t just Warner that made them great. They’ve aged, and lost their all-star WR corps, with the exception of Fitzgerald of course. Patrick Peterson is a great find, but will take at least a year to really click.
Kolb is a big factor, but even if he turns out to be decent (which I doubt, seeing some of his performance in the preseason), he can’t turn the whole team around.
"turning around"
in this division means around 9-7… not exactly Atlas with the world on his shoulders stuff for Kolb to pull off.
Well, overall I would agree
but their QB and o-line situation is much better. Two important components to a winning team.
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by nocal81(Vincent) on Sep 1, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno, I don't think they are at a point where they can win a lot of shoot outs.
Their secondary could be worse than ours was last year.
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They do have MAJOR
issues in regards to the receiving position and the secondary. But the 49ers have issues as well. This is why I stated it will be close between the two.
Both Arizona and Seattle are way down there on the overall talent scale. So it will probably end up being a two team race.
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"I am our future, forget Kory"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Sep 1, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
The 2011 49ers are the TEAM OF THE CENTURY!!!
Nobody here realizes that yet. GO NINERS!!
Play to Win!
I'm trying
but they haven’t instill the confidences in me yet.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 1, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not like we haven't been there before...
Play to Win!
by Pat Willie on Sep 1, 2011 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
funny !
It wouldn’t take much to win the Div.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 1, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I would crap myself if we went.
I am sure someone knows right off hand but has there been any rookie coaches to go to the SB? If so, which ones?
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Caldwell I think?
I mean he inherited quite a team there.
Actually no, they lost
Seifert did it though.
Colts coach Don McCafferty
Was a rookie coach, inherited the Colts from Don Shula, won Super Bowl V.
man...
now someone is gonna get pissed at you for calling Patrick-Fatrick… and bring up the whole Alice thing again…
On that note...
Has anyone seen Thor, those guys told me it was garbage.
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I don't think the Rams WR corps are that bad
And I think Bradford can make them look pretty good especially if Steven Jackson shows up this year.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Its really not that good
They do have young, but unproven talent. The 49ers wide receiving core is much better at this point.
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"I am our future, forget Kory"
by nocal81(Vincent) on Sep 1, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Our wr/te/rb groups are superior
But QB and o-line seem headed in opposite directions.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
well...
We’ll see if Bradford regresses this year.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
the thing for Bradford
is to keep that shoulder healthy… I think that is the only thing that could stop him at this point.
I think what the niners lack is leadership
cause it not coming from anyone in perpendicular.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 1, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
We tend not to value our natural player-leaders
not sure why.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
leadership is contiguous
It needs to br brought forth.
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 1, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
yea...i figured that
But that’s a funny change on the word.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
My brain does it all the time
and if it passes spell check, I usually don’t catch it until it is too late.
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
spell check
Yea, spell check on posts can be a pain sometimes since you can spell a word correctly but have it be in the wrong context.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
One day firefox will get a grammar check built in
and then I will catch it a small percentage of the time more!
by asmithisaverage on Sep 1, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
grammar
But I don’t think it would have caught the perpendicular comment. It’s incorrectly stated, but it’s not really a grammatical issue. That’s what threw me off with it. It reads perfectly fine, even if it doesn’t actually make any sense to me.
by David Fucillo on Sep 1, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
depending on my dick. and I'm picking out the wrong words
Can you all forgive me ?
by LASVEGASNINER on Sep 1, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
You're supposed to think with your other head
It’s better at spelling.
by OffensiveInterference on Sep 1, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
A sacked QB
is perpindicular to the OLINE. Not stand up then I suppose.
No more excuses Alex ~ okay?
most of the guys on our o line
have spent the preseason on their backs too… so actually… they are parallel. Or maybe just a pile of pick-up-sticks.
we need a line that remains
perpendicular to the field of play… for starters.
by Sigelvictory on Sep 1, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's pretty much a 50/50 deal with this division.
There are no clear-cut favorites and any four of the teams could win it. Some divisions have “favorites” but this one doesn’t.
The 49ers have a talent stacked roster in a week division. Coaching may be the difference.
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I think you mean 25/25/25/25.
Also, in what world do you see the Seahawks winning this division?
He must have had
Pete Carroll’s daily dose of coffee this morning or something
Hey like him or not
The guy really loves his job. Watch him on the sideline. He’s like a little kid hacking away at a wiffle ball and smashing one right into his Dad’s nuts!
No more excuses Alex ~ okay?
/Carly Simon music
Cause he’s so vain …
by OffensiveInterference on Sep 1, 2011 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, that is what I meant.
I don’t think it is so far out of the realm of possibility
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thats how I meant that...
if THAT team could pull in off in this division… I have little doubt it could happen again. No clear cut favorite here… but I do lean toward picking the Rams.
I can't do it.
I don’t want to give that to anybody yet. I’ll revisit the subject after I see the first couple of games.
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I think I'd like to add something here.
Really, all we want is wins. We’ve had talent, we’ve had promises, we’ve had close losses and bad coaching and heart-breakers, we’ve had questions at QB, questions on the O-line, questions in the secondary. But all we all want is wins, no matter how close or who’s responsible.
Even arguments about Alex Smith will lose much of their vitriol once the Niners win some games. I’m sure there will still be many arguing for him to go, perhaps even me. But once a team starts winning, fans start having a lot more fun. I really don’t give a [site decorum] who steps up and wins it. I just want it to happen. 9-7 or better, and then things will start looking up. At least for this fan.
by Rhombus on Sep 1, 2011 3:10 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Yay
We were 5th in the league with 25+ yard gains.
I did not know that.
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Don't know but he went to Santa Rosa Junior College. And then Louisville
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SRJC and Louisville
He was signed by the Falcons but looked okay against the Steelers
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Wanted him as our undrafted free agent
AFWOF!
Maybe now again?
by OffensiveInterference on Sep 1, 2011 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Does a bear poop in the woods?
I mean by Norv in general. He likes to win.
No more excuses Alex ~ okay?
Why? Rivers will probably only play for a series or two.
Brock I think is going to be good. I think he may take Spencer’s job. Cully has showed a lot of promise too. I wonder if Rogers is gone after this year?
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Too much inane back-and-forth mindless banter...
eyes bleary…
head throbbing…
mind turning to mush…
Football game too far away…
need beer….lots of beer….
I can relate
I just finished a 2 week trial yesterday. Opposing counsel for the crooked contractor toasted and roasted me and my wife to a certain extent like some freaking knife wielding wacko.
My mind is mush too. 3 years in the making. And the insurance company is going to pay dearly.
So its some football tonite and a barrell of Avalon Cab.
Onward!
No more excuses Alex ~ okay?
Shafted by the schedule maker.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The schedule maker shafted the 49ers. 5 of their road games are in the eastern time zone; never good for a west coast team. And 3 of the last 4 games are against Seattle, Arizona and the Rams and ALL on the road. That is NOT balanced scheduling.
No
It isn’t balanced in the slightest, never has been either…
Hey fellas...
Its going to be pretty hard NOT to win the division after we go UNDEFEATED this season and have Alex Smith win the Superbowl MVP award.
The to my post above....
Alex’ touchdown/interception ratio over his last five NFL regular season:
(a) starts: 8/1
(b) “complete games”: 10/3
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
It’s more his yards per pass. Backup QBs also have decent TD/INT ratios but simply mastering that skill makes them a backup.
"mastering that skill makes them a backup" Huh?
So, if they didn’t master that skill, then they’d be a starter?
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
Try a 3rd/Emergency QB
Posting the comparison of Joe and Steve only demonstrates TD/INT ratio isn’t that relevant in evaluating a QB.
For comparison...
Alex’ last 5 starts: 8.0 / 1
Alex’ last 5 complete games: 3.3 / 1
Joe Montana’s 49er career: 1.98 / 1 (244 / 123)
Steve Young’s 49er career: 2.6 / 1(221 / 86)
After all was said and done, a lot more got said than done.
In the grand scheme it doesn't really mean much
Sample size, obviously, but still TD/INT isn’t the be all end all anyway.
To be honest
Anyone trying to guess the NFC West this season is crazy:
The Rams look good on paper but have a brutal opening schedule, it’s always difficult to climb out of a hole.
The Cardinals are an X factor with Kolb. The running looked like it was going to be better with Ryan Williams and is now a huge question mark. The defense is under a new direction and hoping for young players to break through.
The Seahawks added the most talent via free agency. Still suffer from a lack of talent but Carrol’s ability to manage a few wins during a roster upheaval last year was impressive.
The 49ers have changed the entire coaching staff and direction with a roster of underachievers. Their early gambles so far don’t appear to be working but also have the leagues easiest opponent schedule.
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