49ers vs. Cowboys: Failed Run-Game, Offensive Line or Frank Gore to Blame?
I went back and watched the game again, well...the running plays on offense anyways. Smileyman and I talked about each taking different angles on the reasons for the run-game not producing thus-far. I take the opinion that the offensive line is not opening holes for Frank Gore, and that he's still a good running back who hasn't lost a full step.
Smiley on the other hand contends that Gore has indeed lost a step and is at least partially to blame for the lack of rushing yards for the offense. I'm keying-in on the offensive line today and looking to see if they opened holes for Frank-The-Tank or not.
The 49ers opened the game with several pass plays in succession with the first run play not taking place until fifth play of the drive. On that particular play, Sean Lee knifed in from the backside and made the stop as Gore cut it to the outside. There was a sea of defenders in the center of the field as well as the backside cut. Gore tried to bounce it out but Lee knifed in as the extra defender to trip Gore up.
After the jump we'll take a look at some other plays and come up with a conclusion on how the O-Line played in the run-game.
With about 2:50 left in the 1st quarter, Gore was stopped for a short gain. Vernon Davis and Moran Norris missed their blocks. The tackle was made by a few linebackers as the DL was adequately blocked. The Cowboys DID have about 73 players in the box prior to the snap...perhaps an audible to a pass play was in order.
The very next play, everyone was blocked without penetration and Norris collided with a linebacker. Gore hit a defender head-on but had the yardage he needed in addition to winning the battle against the tackler, falling forward.
The next running play was another lead dive (FB leading through the hole, run up the middle off-guard). Everyone was sufficiently tied-up, though not driven back, and Norris made a collision. Gore gained three yards on the play.
Anthony Dixon came in next for the 3rd and 1 play. Mike Iupati pulled to the right and Norris made his block, allowing Dixon to gain about six yards. After a sack, Gore took a draw-play for nine yards through a spacious hole.
The next play had Delanie Walker and Moran Norris in the backfield. Walker runs past the end as though he didn't want to block him and instead picks up a second level defender. Iupati pulls but doesn't find a man to push out of the hole until after Gore has already entered the hole. Davis has double-team help to begin with, but then when he's 1-on-1 blocking, he can't keep the block. Anthony Davis also loses his man after a few seconds and the hole collapses just as Gore enters it. Norris once-again makes contact, but doesn't drive or control his man.
The TD play you can see what needs to happen on every running play: Offensive linemen past the line of scrimmage. They DROVE their men into the end-zone rather than just standing them up. Gore slips a tackle and shoots in underneath the big uglies. Staley and Norris lead the way through the hole and do a nice job.
With about 10:45 left in the 2nd Quarter, Gore loses a yard on a run play. Joe Staley misses his block, as does Chilo Rachal, and so does Moran Norris. Three defenders easily tackle Gore. A few plays later is a run called to the outside, off tackle, but Gore decides to cut back inside and is swallowed for a short gain. Delanie Walker was in the process of finding his man, which spooked Gore. I put that on on Frank, as there was only one man to beat.
Around 8:25 left in the 2nd Quarter is a toss sweep left. The right side of the offensive line did not make their blocks and Anthony Spencer and company pursued and were able to make the stop. Iupati and Davis double teamed a defender to the outside but Gore couldn't get outside of their blocks anyways as a DB was waiting near the sideline. The backside pursuit was just waiting for him.
Note: the next play was a moving pocket to the right, or "sprint-right Z option". Alex threw it right to Joshua Morgan on the run for a first-down. I like this play. Immediately afterwards was a run by Gore off left-guard. The play gained four or five yards on first-down via a good hole to run-through. Thus-far in the first-half the 49ers seem to be running the ball effectively for the most part.
Next run play was with about 5:20 left in the half. The blocking wasn't great, but notably you'll see Norris shoot through the hole, sliding on the grass all alone. Gore was stopped for no gain. With around 4:00 left in the 2nd Quarter, we see Adam Snyder missing his block and the OL generally not getting any drive forward. Snyder stood up like it was pass protection and his defender slipped by him to get in on the stop.
With just over a minute left in the half is a run off left tackle. Chilo pulls left and misses the first guy, ending up in the hole with nobody to hit. It was like over pursuit on his part. Gore still fights through a tackle and gains six yards.
-- Halftime --
With 14:57 left in the 3rd quarter Gore get's his first running play of the second half. Delanie Walker is late pushing his man out of the hole and Gore runs into him as he enters the hole. The line got no push again, so there were tons of bodies in the hole, even if most of them were occupied by a blocker.
With around ten minutes to go in the 2nd quarter, Gore is stopped for a short gain. Again there were at least five defenders in the hole. Anthony Davis and Jonathan Goodwin both didn't hold their blocks more than one second and both defenders were involved in the tackle.
Gore's next run play takes place with 14:27 left in the 4th quarter. This time there was a decent hole off left guard and Gore is tripped up by the shoe-laces in the hole. He probably could have broken that tackle. Goodwin's man twisted underneath the block and dove for Gore's legs in the hole. Not the easiest tackle to break, but there was some semblance of a hole.
The next play goes for about six yards as Norris makes contact and Gore runs up Iupati's back. Both men were downfield at least three to four yards on the play. This was the play they called Snyder for illegal formation. The next play saw Anthony Spencer beating Norris and jumping on Gore's back...not a tackle I'd expect anyone to break.
Now we're in the six minute portion of the 4th quarter. The team needs to burn some clock. After a passing play and a timeout, the team runs the ball with Gore which goes for two yards. Vernon Davis' block on Demarcus Ware was half-assed, to say the least. He reached out with his arms and then Ware disengaged and dove in towards Gore's feet. Goodwin's man again was able to shed the block and get in on the tackle, too. If Davis had pushed Ware outside and held the block, there was a huge lane ahead of Gore.
Now we reach overtime. After completion to Ted Ginn for a first down, the ball goes to Gore. It was a draw play and Gore burst through the hole for seven yards, colliding with Keith Brooking along the way.
I had to post this coaches angle of the long pass to Holley...The reason is that I don't think the coverage was Cover 4 (or "Quarters). You can see Madieu Williams drops down the numbers, but Tarell Brown sinks to the sideline like Cover 2 or even Man-to-Man on his guy. If it was Cover 4 you'd have seen Brown drop straight back to a depth similar to that of Madieu's. This had to be Cover 2, meaning that at least ONE of the DB's on the top of the screen was supposed to drop back along the numbers to take that half of the field. You can see that both men froze on the run-fake and there was NOBODY to make the play.
My conclusion from the running plays I watched was that the offensive line got no push in this game. Even when they blocked their man, they didn't take him anywhere and the guy usually disengaged and got an arm on Gore. There were generally at least five bodies in the hole with no real seam.
The Cowboys definitely sold out on the run and the 49ers did nothing to make them question that strategy. I saw Gore miss a few cutbacks or broken-tackle opportunities but for the most part there was nowhere to run. I can't really put any of the lack of success on Gore.
Lastly the players I'm most disappointed in are Vernon Davis, Moran Norris and Jonathan Goodwin. Davis didn't seem like he cared about blocking all that much, perhaps validated by his post-game comments. Norris had a better game but still missed too many blocks altogether or didn't hold them long enough. Goodwin was manhandled and got no push, had no control of his man.
For another great read breaking down the OL play, check out Bay Area Sports Guy's post.
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he's due for a big game..probably happen on, ohhh...say, November 20th?
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
that and we own them, like every time
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
FWIW...
We have SF with the #26 ALY, the #27 stuffed rate, the #27 2nd-level ypc, and the #26 open-field ypc. in other words, it seems to be both the OL and gore.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Sep 21, 2011 12:21 PM PDT reply actions
I can see that.
I don’t think another back goes for 100+ in either of the first two games, but there were a few gains to be made by a quicker, shiftier back.
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
longer gains on running downs = longer drives
longer drives = more downs
more downs = more carries
more carries = more yards
think if a couple drives were extended he might have hit the 100 mark
I don't think anyone would have doubled performance, though
unless they broke a big run, which is kinda the point here, so maybe
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
Breaking the big run
I think that’s indeed the point. Gore’s usually higher YPC is a function of occasionally breaking long runs. His stats look worse than he is because were only seeing his weakness. But that weakness is very real — it just gets obscured by the those highlight-worthy runs over the season.
I'd be happy if he got some 9-12 yard runs mixed in. Just a few three or four.
Enough to gash the defense a little
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
Does any of F.O.'s algorithms account for position of LB's and safety relative to LoS?
Seems to me that Sean Lee was a barely a foot or two behind the linemen. That’s a really tiny box. They clearly don’t respect the Niners’ passing game. Even if the O Line is creating holes, the extra defender(s) is/are right in Gore’s face as soon as he shoots thru the hole.
by Mood_Indigo on Sep 21, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone
is of the opinion that it’s ALL Gore’s fault. The question is – is Gore doing better or worse than you would expect, given the craptastic line play. I think the only way to test this is by giving Hunter some carries.
Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...
what...
would you expect? if expectation is the average NFL starting RB or (committee), SF is below average in both down-field run categories.
if expectation is previous years of gore, last year they finished 13th in ALY, 11th in stuffed rate, 25th in 2nd-level ypc, and 20th in open-field ypc, suggesting that last year was much more the RB’s fault. with gore out for the last 5 games, not sure how much of it was gore, and how much was dixon and westbrook. two years ago, they were 32nd in ALY, 32 in stuffed rate, 32nd in 2nd-level ypc, and 4th in open-field ypc. if there ever were a profile of a team where a good RB is running behind an OL that is absolute crap, that would be it.
if expectation is something else, then we can discuss that too.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Sep 21, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
well, I actually had a comment all written
that villified Gore a bit. I had though that FO partitioned rushing credit between the Line and the RBs. Not the case (I think). Gore’s horrific DVOA this year is due essentially to him not getting any ‘sucesses’ (1st downs, etc.). So I thought I could argue that even though the line was bad, Gore was even worse!!! But this is not actually fair to Gore, because obviously his lack of success rate is a large part due to the bad line play.
I think what you can say (in the limited sample size, new scheme, yadda yadda) is that the FO Adjusted Line Yards for the Niners is 3.4 bad. But the RUNNING back yards is even worse. I am not actually sure this difference has much meaning… or if you could somehow partition the RB success rate (rushing) the same way that ALY is calculated…
The bottom line:
Bad Offense Is Bad.
Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...
yes...
it’s bad all around.
by (Florida) Danny Tuccitto on Sep 21, 2011 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Coach need to make statement....waive Morran Norris
How much more clearer does it need to be…Norris simply collides with people, does not move them, does not put them on their back and he can’t catch anything except for maybe a cold.
He is a dead weight body for Gore to stumble over.
Somebody should be able to consistantly get “push” on their man….not simply hit a brick wall in a collision and move nobody.
by BigMar on Sep 21, 2011 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Hit repeat on this comment alllllll year long
Because I have a feeling he’s not gonna go anywhere this season.
Check out my site!!
The Hometown Fan
I'm starting to get the impression...
you don’t like Moran Norris.
by AptosNinerFan on Sep 21, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know the man....
Im sure he is a great guy and all… but his fullback skills are not what they were 4-5 years ago.
Hell, this team needs to do more squats or something...
they all appear to need more leg strenght!
maybe
we should have kept Baas? Ah well, too late for that now…
by Doni S on Sep 21, 2011 12:31 PM PDT via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
pretty much. would have been better to offer baas the contract they offered goldson
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 21, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Why? It's Alex Smith syndrome
had two rookies last year.
Abbreviated camp this year, introduction to new system.
I don’t know how complicated Solari’s system is but
it looks like we’re going to to wait for line to “jell”.
They can only get better next year, and by then
Frank may be gone, and Kaep will be back there.
nn
by ninersninny on Sep 21, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
sounds about right
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 21, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Lockout, new offensive schemes, overrated talent?
Jim Harbaugh doesn't just WANT winners, he MAKES them!
It's pretty simple: if defenses are stacking the box, then Harbaugh/Alex have to beat it with hot reads and quick slants.
if they want to put a LB one foot behind the DL, then take a three step drop, hit VD, Ginn or Morgan on a quick slant, and keep doing it until they back off. Unless/until the ‘niners do that, the run game will struggle. The thing is, Alex can do that – it’s not about hitting a twenty yard seam or thirty yard go route – it’s about recognizing the defensive, calling the hot route, and throwing a six yard in… I was really surprised, in both the Seattle and Dallas games, that they didn’t start doing that in the second half.
by mwright84 on Sep 21, 2011 12:55 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
I have thought the same thing...
what ever happened to the quick slant? It is a great play to beat linebackers cheating on the run.
by Sigelvictory on Sep 21, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Or Having the Fullback
knife upfield through the line on a post pattern and catching the pass in the area the linebackers vacated. Craig did it. Rathman did it and we should have Norris…
nvm
I brought up
the lack of a playmaking FB in another thread… you are right on point with this. For the WCO or whatever you want to call it to work, the FB needs to do more than block.
by Sigelvictory on Sep 21, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Craig did it. Rathman did it and we should haveNorrisMiller do it
since Norris is out with an injury, i think
It may come to that
And if it does, it’s going to be interesting to see;
if Harb has the guts to calls his number,
if Alex can pull the trigger,
and if Miller can catch the ball and not tip it to the safety.
As much as I would love to see Miller pound the safety all game long… I don’t think Miller can catch a cold let alone grab a pass running full tilt on a hot read.
zone blitz
Brian Sabean: Sing His Praises To The Heavens!
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PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game that seems to have resurrected itself in my absence...
Exactly, BUT, the zone blitz is weakest against a strong running team
because typically you can’t drop DLmen into coverage – part of the zone blitz package – if the offense is running down your throat. You need the big men up front to crash the gaps. A strong run game and ASmith learning to recognize the zone blitz would each negate this defense and allow for the hot read quick slant. So far, the ‘niners run game is a mess (Gore? O-Line? Scheme? still learning?) and teams haven’t had to worry about the zone blitz (they really haven’t faced it yet) because all they’ve had to do is play 8 in the box – or the newly fashionable “nine wide” D, and the ‘niners couldn’t beat it. So given that I still wonder why they’re not calling the quick slant, at least until the D responds, to back off the LBs.
one last thought -
the ‘niners biggest problem, in my opinion, is really on first down runs – too many 2 yard gains against a stiff run D putting them in an immediately hole. this is where Alex could be very effective reading an over-shifted line or stacked box, call the hot route, and pull it off. you don’t typically see defenses in a zone blitz on first down – unless of course it’s the Saints in a pre-season game….
I posted this eariler today in another forum...
but it seems Tre9er saw a ton of the same things I did when I went back and broke down the game. Here’s my eariler post for those who are interested.
I just sat through watching the Dallas game again and there are a couple of glaring issues with some positions in this game that are consistent throughout.
The Offensive Line
This may bother some people but if you think Goodwin is the answer, take a hard look at number 59 and the game again – Our center is terrible! I don’t care how many pro bowls this guy has been to or how many of you think he is an upgrade over David Baas but its obvious why the Saints cut him. He’s slow, passive and gives up on plays. Playing in tandem Iupati and Rachal the core of the line just looks passive and, at times, lost. The penetration in the center of the line is frightening. In addition Staley had another one of his signature terrible games. I think Dallas emptied the defensive playbook at the Niners and came up particularly large in the second half. This certainly contributed to the stinking line play. Rest assured the rest of the teams in the NFL took note so you can expect to see a lot more.
Tight Ends
In the Dallas game VD drew the majority of blocking assignments and he played about the same as our center. He looked frustrated blocking down on Ware and the linebackers. Harbaugh brought in Snyder late in the game to try to get some of the edges sealed but this also resulted in the illegal formation penalty that made Harbs break out in shingles on the sidelines. I never thought the loss of Nate Byham was going to be such a big deal – But it is.
Fullback
Beyond his inability to catch or run with the football, Moran might prove adequate as a blocker if the offensive line could create a lane for him to position himself to deliver an actual block. Unfortunately, this has rarely occurred and, as such, Norris seems content to close his eyes and launch himself at the closest defender with scud missile-like precision. Sometimes he comes close but much like a scud, he’s largely ineffective.
Honestly, the core of the line looked bewildered for most of the Dallas game and it’s obvious that it’s going to take a bit of time for the center and guards to get on the same page. In addition both tackles are struggling with pass protection. Beyond changing players it looks like it’s going to take a long time for this group to get it together.
The way I see it, the Niners desperately need a center, a blocking tight end and a real fullback.
I really thought he'd be an upgrade...
…but thus far not so much. Let’s hope it’s because he’s still adjusting or something, lol.
Norris and goodwin!!!
Both need to seat next game let miller and call up beeler because we need a center that will hold their ground a full game it appears to me the these two veterans get gased to quickly.
by Zintzun22niner on Sep 21, 2011 1:35 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Snyder is a more physical player than Goodwin
let him start at center and take his lumps, at least he could hold the point of attack and maybe get some push.
It’s MILLER time! If they give him a shot against the Bengals we may have seen the last of Norris.
I was thinking this
Snyder didn’t look good on the edge as extra TE but I wonder if he’d play well inside. I just also wonder about the line-calls (protections) and his snaps.
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
Snyder was terrible in preseason
often times against people low on the depth chart. I would rather give Goodwin a few more weeks to learn the system and see if he improves. We know we will get below average with Snyder after seeing him play over a long period of time.
Goodwin or Baas ?
The 9ers let go of Baas, a young upcoming center who’s physical play & molbilty was PERFECT for the run game.
and came up with Goodwin, an older vetern who’s finess style of play & old legs simply do not appear to get it done.
Could Kilgore be the answer?
And
I think the hope is that Kilgore will be the guy going forward, but certainly isn’t ready yet.
We sure did...
the 9ers could have re-signed just like any other team. But they elected not to. So they had the choice to sign him to a contract matching Giants or …let him go.
Now look at our run game, and for that matter Pass protection ain’t all that either!
What?
Who says you get to ‘match’ another offer. That isn’t how free agency works.
49ers likely offered him a contract. The Giants decided to pay an unproven center quite a bit of money. He took the money, it is that simple.
Letting him go implies that the 9ers released him when he could freely go where he wanted.
Point being
It was mostly out of the 49ers control. It happened the beginning of free agency, you move on and it has nothing to do with the current players not executing.
I think Baas
also has some ties to the northeast… went back home so to speak
by Sigelvictory on Sep 21, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I Call BS
The Niners could of signed him if they wanted to. The cold hard fact is that they didn’t want to pay him what the Giants did. So suggest otherwise means Baas had a putz for an agent.
The situation has rendered itself mute. Baalke got us an ‘upgrade’ at center. A ‘proven’ player.
How do you like it so far?
There is no reason
The 9ers should have offered Baas that much money at the time it was offered. Even if Baas is an all pro, at the time, it was too much money. And there have also been reports of Baas wanting to be near family. It isn’t as simple as the 9ers resigning him if they wanted, once again, it isn’t up to them. Just like Spikes getting a 3 yr deal was too much (there’s the whole Bowman thing there too though).
What is with all these people on here using hindsight in every single argument.
You're Missing The Point
The new center that a lot of people hailed as an ‘upgrade’ is, to date, a disaster and we really don’t have an answer. Your assertion that he wasn’t worth the money smacks on deft ears as the front office of the Giants is proven and they know a lot more than you.
And our own front office who chose to gamble with the line and now we’re seeing the consequences of their choices.
Not if Baas didn't want to stay
he was offered a starting job with the Giants which took him back close to his family. He was offered $5 million a year, which is big money for an unproven center.
Hopefully!!!
I imagine a beast of a player with the name kilgore… I can already see him eating up lineman and opening holes for our running backs wiether its gore or Hunter… Yes I can see it know Hunter and Kilgore..makes since to mee.
by Zintzun22niner on Sep 21, 2011 2:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Kilgore needs another 20# of muscle before
he could handle any starting nose tackle in the NFL.
Tre...nice post! I think we all love getting detailed breakdowns like this especially over a hot topic (per the last thread).
I think the point is that the blame should be spread around to more than just Gore. I do think that once (or I should say “if”) our offense starts to show some cohesiveness, then we’ll see better runs out of Gore. I do like Hunter and think it will be nice to mix him in as well in order to keep Gore fresh and get Hunter some reps. Also, some drop off passes to Davis may help too. I don’t think anyone on Dallas can cover him one-on-one especially when they’re stacking the box. I would like to see Harbaugh call more pass plays (at the right time) to loosen up the defense.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Sep 21, 2011 3:16 PM PDT reply actions
Opening holes
It just seems like the o-line isn’t getting the push they need to open up the holes. It also seems like gore isn’t hitting the holes very hard….maybe it’s just me. He seemed hesitant last game…..maybe becuase he’s still not 100%?….I don’t know. I agree though the blame needs to be spread around
Davis' comments per Maiocco...
"It’s still early. That’s why I didn’t have to talk to him about that too much. It’s still early. Everybody is still learning the offense." – V.D.
I think Vernon’s quote above is what a lot of people here should keep in mind as well.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Sep 21, 2011 3:19 PM PDT reply actions
davis
no doubt……we tend to panic but this is all new for all the players and coaches. I’m personally trying to trade for vernon in both my fantasy pools cause I think its only a matter of time before harbaugh and alex start getting him the ball…….especially with braylon’s knee now.
I remember in Vernon's breakout year, he didn't do anything of note really until Week 3 vs. Minnesota. I hope this will be a similar situation.
Especially sicne I’ve head about how Harbaugh’s offense is very “Tight End friendly”. I would love to see that come to fruition soon.
by Sactown_Loyalty19 on Sep 21, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
it's TE friendly...they get lots of playing time...
as blockers
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
putting eight defenders in the box and run blitzing
Would make any line look bad. How are the niners making these teams pay for being so aggressive around the line of scrimage? Throwing screens around the line. Going to have to attempt more passes downfield to tale the pressure off the line.
by wtlichens on Sep 21, 2011 5:27 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
The did a pretty fair job
handling the blitz in the first half with quick passes and a draw. In the second half, they tried that double screen and Alex got murdered before he could even finish the fake. The pressure came right up the middle with Goodwin standing there watching.
In a way it reminded me of Jim Burt killing Montana in a play off game. That ended that Niner season and Walsh made sure Quillan and Ayers were gone the following year.
All of these guys on the line can be replaced…
And I think some should be.
teams need to respect the niners passing game and respect that the niners can pass the ball deep. there needs to be some deep shots down the field more often. I also sense that the niners may be drafting more o-lineman in the near future.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
I said that last week or so on Twitter (re: drafting OL in coming drafts)
I think some interior OL’s in the mid rounds (2nd-4th) is warranted. Take a guy who falls out of the first round and get him up to speed at Guard, or take a Center there (that’s where the good Centers start usually)
Getting beat by making mistakes hurts the worst.
Follow @Tre9er
The passing game is to blame. Until the 49ers get a respectable passing game that will keep our opposing defenses honest, every opponent we play will continue to stack the box against Gore. You know why? Because Gore is our strongest asset that has proven he can move the chains. Its the same story thats going on in Minnesota.

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