49ers Release Antwan Applewhite
by David Fucillo on Sep 6, 2011 9:02 AM PDT
in 49ers Roster
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PrintThe 49ers officially signed linebacker Tavares Gooden earlier this morning and made the corresponding roster move of releasing outside linebacker Antwan Applewhite. D.DeSimone has a post coming up with more on Gooden who brings some athleticism with upside to the team.
In the meantime, the 49ers now find themselves with three outside linebackers; a fourth if you count the practice squad. They'll go with Ahmad Brooks, Parys Haralson and Aldon Smith on Sunday, with Monte Simmons available on the practice squad. Is there any need for additional help at the OLB position, or is three enough on a Sunday? At this point Brooks and Haralson will likely be starting, with Smith coming in on specific pass rush situations and occasionally to spell one of the starters.
Can the team bring an effective pass rush with just three outside linebackers? Last season they went with Brooks, Haralson, Manny Lawson and Travis LaBoy. I could see Aldon Smith in the LaBoy role focusing in on the pass rush more than anything else.
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They could potentially rush J.Smith from DE in Nickel, too
in order to give an OLB a blow from time to time. Bring in Dobbs or RJF inside…or heck, even put Dobbs at DE from time to time.
The guys in base 3-4 (Brooks, Haralson) will get a bit winded but there are plenty of guys who play all 3 downs.
Aldon Smith will have 10 sacks in 2011.
I tweet, therefore I am
it feels like every year that goes by in the 3-4
their personnel becomes more suited for 4-3
by whistlingmountain on Sep 6, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not knowledgable on this stuff, but ...
It looked like they played a lot of 4-3 against the Chargers. Wasn’t Aldon mostly lined up in the DE position in that game? Regardless, I think it would be more accurate to call the 49ers defense a hybrid.
Actually of all the teams that are 3-4
the 49ers were in a base 3-4 the most of any team in the NFL. This was just talked about in the NFL preview Sports Illustrated, and it shows that the 49ers were in a Base 3-4 58.5 percent, which was the most of any notable 3-4’s. The browns came in 2nd with 57.2 and Green Bay came in 13th with only 21.6 percent in a base 3-4
werent the Packers mostly in a 2-4 defense?
i thought i read that in SI magazine
by sundaysfinest on Sep 6, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
It's because
Due to the rarity of the 3-4 you could land your linemen and rush backers at very reasonable prices in the lower draft rounds and keep them around for longer.
Now that the league is half and half you can build a 4-3 defense and get much more bang for your buck. The interior linemen don’t have to be as special in size and power, you can draft defensive ends that are supposed to be defensive ends instead of tweeners trying to convert to OLB, and your linebackers can be used more in coverage without being a liability. It’s very rare to get a monster pass rusher that can also drop and cover the TE of the league.
Well I know the argument the past few years has been that they didn't have the DL for a 4-3
but Justin Smith is consistently very good in either, McDonald seems like an attacking 4-3 DT, Aldon seems ready right now to get down in 3 point and attack. Dobbs seems to be in the McDonald mold. I’m liking the prospects of the pass rush more in the 4-3 than the 3-4, where it seems like they’re going to rely heavily on blitzes to produce pressure.
by whistlingmountain on Sep 6, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I've seen the same thing, but it all boiled down to Franklin
With the money they spent on franchising Franklin they could have brought in a DE to play opposite Smith and plugged RJF and Sopoaga in the DT spots last year. Our linebackers have always fit the 4-3 better than the 3-4, Justin Smith is dominant either way, and our other DE’s would have no problem stepping down as 4-3 DTs.
If we had made the change this year, all we would have done differently would be retaining Lawson. A lineup of
Smith – Sopoaga – McDonald – Smith
Bowman – Willis – Lawson
and the introduction of a Cover 2/Cover 3 heavy scheme would have been a better idea than what we are doing now.
I don’t understand the stubborn clinging to the 3-4 now that it’s primary advantage (cost effective aggression) has been nullified by it’s popularity.
There's alot of assuming in that thought process , the problem is we don't know how Sapoaga is going to hold up in the middle let alone McDonald ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ...Jimmy Raye your no daisy ...!!
We've seen plenty of both of them in nickel 4 man fronts
Sopoaga is an ok run defender, mediocre player in general, but McDonald is primarily pass rushing defensive tackle who is being square pegged into a round 3-4 DE hole.
by whistlingmountain on Sep 6, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
We don't know how he's going to hold up as
the NT in a 3-4 being the only lineman we have in between the offensive tackles. In a 4-3 he’d have another DT right beside him.
McDonald is a BEAST
In Madden 12… he’s my team leader in sacs hahah
Why is our off-season more exciting than our regular season?!
Follow me @eNNCity
The investment in a 4-3 defense is still greater than 3-4
Established 4-3 teams are still using 1st round picks on defensive linemen almost every other year.
I agree the cost effectiveness of implementing the 3-4 has gone down significantly the last few years, I was commenting about it last season. Still 3-4 defense remains more cost effective to implement.
1 year in 4 or 5 is more accurate
There are 13 teams I know have ran a 4-3 since 2000. Including year 2000 there have been 12 drafts since then. Only 31 first round picks out of 156 have been defensive linemen, or roughly 19%.
If you want to look at the expensive members, the pass rushing ends, that number drops even further.
Maybe I'm not following your math here
13 teams have run the 4-3 defense since 2000. Are you saying only those 13 4-3 base defense teams have picked defensive linemen 19% of the time or the full sample of NFL teams?
The first
13 teams in 12 drafts is 156 first round picks. Of those I said only 31 were defensive linemen. I was wrong. The draft finder at PFR hasn’t updated with 2011 picks yet, that number should be 34.
31/156 = 19%, but incorrect now that I’ve double checked it.
34/156 = 21.7% So still about 1 in 5 over all the 4-3’s in the sample. Some individual teams do average one every other year. Other teams draft one or two a decade.
3-4 v. 4-3; apple v. PC
less competition for players from other teams; less viruses
by PatrickJSmiles on Sep 6, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
3 should be ok...
Does anyone know how often the Seahawks run a 2 wide receiver set? If they will be switching to 3 wrs more often then we won’t be in the 4 linebacker set for more than 50 percent of defensive plays (just throwing that number out there). Those guys should get plenty of rest.
My only concern is with how well Aldon Smith will perform. He will most definitely be getting good solid playing time (not to say that he wasn’t going to before) so he will have to adapt fast. My worry wouldn’t have been pass rush it would have been coverage. The coaches know what they had in Applewhite and there must have been something there that they didn’t like…
Aldon Smith will be a stud, don't worry
I wouldn’t be surprised if P Will or Bowman play OLB if needed.
Alex Smith 86%+ QB rating with 22+ TDs this season, hopefully! :)
The idea of Willis blitzing off the edge...
makes me smile in a way that the 49ers seldom have in recent years.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Sep 6, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I like the idea of Brooks, Aldon Smith and Willis all blitzing at one time.
Not sure they all would but that would be a good pass rush.
add to that Justin Smith and I can see a lot of QBs running for their lives
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
personally I hope they do. coverage is not their strength.
I can see a lot of QBs running for their lives
especially both times we play seatle and their rookie right side.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
We got this
My buddy is a Seahawks fan n basically said there o’line can’t pass block or rush worth a crap. I get visions of fangio bringing the house. I think Willis n bowmen are going to combine for about 20 sacs this season
by mrb24 on Sep 6, 2011 9:16 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
"Don't worry guys, we got this"
Seconded
"The past is the past. The only time I look into the rear view is for the cops and I don't speed." -Shawn Andrews
by TryAndCatchVD on Sep 6, 2011 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
"we" should have had this last year, too.
Not that there’s anything wrong with being optimistic.
Harbaughcalypse Now
I like the optimism too
But agree with you, that all it takes is a lousy pass rush to make an O-line/QB combo look a lot better than they are, and we provided that service for so many people last season…
Let’s get it started right, and beat the Seahawks out of the gate this time.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Sep 6, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
they have two rookies playing rg and rt. lol
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
And their RT
Is a guy who we can expect to be a rookie Anthony Davis — with more problems in pass pro.
lol
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe play a hybrid 4-3/Nickel at times?
With Willis, Brooks or Gooden as LBs, and Whitner playing up at the LB spot as the 3rd safety. Goldson and Smith as the other two safeties.
Extended playing time for Smith cant be a bad thing
this will force Al. Smith to be on the field and perform. there will be growing pains but he will develop faster the more time on the field he sees.smith needs to develop his overall game but he was brought in to bring the heat. cut him loose and see where he goes. im excited about his potential as a sack machine. Bowman can also play OLB in a pinch (where he played at linebacker U) . Injuries aside we do got this.
As long as you’re not expecting him to do it in a 3-4 setup.
by Andrew9erfan on Sep 6, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe they have their sites set on a FA OLB?
Did someone like Pittsburg or GB release someone we would want to pick up? We’ll be playing a similar D. Injuries are part of the game. Why put ourselves in a situation where suddenly we have to go out and get someone who’s not up to speed and purely place-holding the spot for one of our three best players at that position.
I always remember Walsh rotating in fresh players constantly. Having PR specidalists lining up on 3rd downs. And as the season wore on it wore the other teams’ OLines down. Instead of visa vesa.
some of the moves Harbaugh and Co are really puzzling
But as we have seen, they don’t always make sense at first but he seems to know what he is doing. I will put faith in the coaches to do what they think is best.
Call me cautiously optimistic....because I know what the Niners do to people who have real optimism (see the last 8 years).
agreed
just think back to how puzzled we were during the draft, and how we didnt understand why the team was so quiet during the 1st week of free agency…
Hopefully that will become the case
Those are two big ifs, but I like where you’re coming from on it. Hey, what if Chilo is actually much-improved this year?
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Sep 6, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
if Chilo is much
improved to the point of being considered ‘good’, I’ll try out for the ‘river dance’…wouldn’t hold your breath but there it is
by Doni S on Sep 6, 2011 11:33 AM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Can also put Dobbs in as a FB...
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
didn’t think of that but I suppose that would be an idea…
by Doni S on Sep 6, 2011 12:52 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Sounds good
yAs far as River Dance goes, ou can youtube Ochocinco doing it if you need some pointers…
“Good” is a strong word, but he’s in much better shape, and his run blocking has been dominant. Pass blocking is going to be the litmus test.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Sep 6, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Mind boogling to cut a olb for an injury prone player....
Don’t get me wrong Gooden is talented, but you cannot deny the fact looking at the injuries he has had ever since his senior bowl. You would think they would cut someone in that secondary. Just goes to show how much the coaching staff really believes in them not to cut one of those guys
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
The Most Interesting Man In The World---->Mikhail Prokhorov!!!
I might be wrong
Fangio was part of the Raven’s D-Coaching. He might know something about Gooden that we don’t
"The past is the past. The only time I look into the rear view is for the cops and I don't speed." -Shawn Andrews
by TryAndCatchVD on Sep 6, 2011 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh isn't that funny
He has been a D-Coordinator for both Harbaughs
"The past is the past. The only time I look into the rear view is for the cops and I don't speed." -Shawn Andrews
by TryAndCatchVD on Sep 6, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Know Fangio knows all about Gooden he was there when they drafted him
Just saying keeping all those in the secondary over applewhite says alot about how they feel about that secondary as is
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
The Most Interesting Man In The World---->Mikhail Prokhorov!!!
by Kidd2Petrovic on Sep 6, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
A secondary of second-rate players and unproven talent
Our secondary might be one of the best for stuffing the run. Otherwise, I’m as skeptical as most pertaining to their ability to shut down the aerial attacks
"The past is the past. The only time I look into the rear view is for the cops and I don't speed." -Shawn Andrews
by TryAndCatchVD on Sep 6, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Suffice it to say
I see the large stable of DB’s as not having that must trust in the corps as a total unit
"The past is the past. The only time I look into the rear view is for the cops and I don't speed." -Shawn Andrews
by TryAndCatchVD on Sep 6, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
Let me get on record one last time as saying that I am peeved about how they handled Mays, and am going to be upset but not surprised if he turns out to be a player as someone else’s project.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Sep 6, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure
But if he disappears, the topic might not come up on its own.
Tell you what: If he’s washed out of the league in two years, put a fanpost on this forum calling me out for my unfounded faith in him, and I will respond to it by saying “I was wrong.”
That said, when the 49ers of Ohio (The Bengals) start this season, their defense will have a LOT of our former guys. I would take their QB, if he’s still holding out for a trade.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Sep 6, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm skeptical as well with the secondary...
but we will see on sunday, eventhough that’s not a true test since Seattle has it’s own problems just throwing the football
Niners,Nets,Reds & USC!!!
The Most Interesting Man In The World---->Mikhail Prokhorov!!!
by Kidd2Petrovic on Sep 6, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Gooden + Grant = ?
1 pass defended in a combined 8 league years? A combined average of 2 tackles per game when they actually started a game (35 out of 128 reg season games)? Add to that the fact that both teams gave up on them (Grant twice) in their prime years. No “upside” potential here – yet. And we “dumped” three young LB’s that were coachable and capable. Isn’t that what this staff does better than most?
What I don’t understand is how the 49ers could justify these injured re-treads? Costanzo counts more tackles per game and all he does is play ST’s!
ILB's flexible
so with one guy on PS & guys like Bowman ready to move to outside, N figure they can go with fewer players.
I’d rather have extra help on O-line and depth for special teams which come from DBs.
Plus
They have Costanzo (sic) & Miller who can play in a pinch.
Remember
SD was awful against the run last year.
And Manusky knew we were going to run the proverbial "rock" down their throat
"The past is the past. The only time I look into the rear view is for the cops and I don't speed." -Shawn Andrews
by TryAndCatchVD on Sep 6, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Well
It was a better idea than trying to pass on their #2 pass defense that caused almost 12% of opposing pass plays to end up in either a sack or interception.
They were a juggernaut last year. If special teams weren’t a part of the game they would have dominated everyone they played.
I was agreeing with you, btw
"The past is the past. The only time I look into the rear view is for the cops and I don't speed." -Shawn Andrews
by TryAndCatchVD on Sep 6, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh of course
I was just remarking that the Chargers game last year had a very low win probability. Our ineptly run and inconsistently executed offense against that kind of defense that is excellent in all phases of the game while facing a Top 3 passing offense with our bottom of the league pass defense — we didn’t stand a chance unless we could pull off 3-4 special teams / turnover touchdowns.
Aldon Smith
is not going to be used in a Travis LaBoy type of role… they will get him on the field as much as is possible… which will be a lot. They didn’t draft him that high to play a down here and there for special packages.
He’ll be on the field a lot. LaBoy didn’t see too much action. His coverage skills will catch on quick and this season he will be a full-time starter along with Brooks.
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by Drew Kerr on Sep 6, 2011 11:15 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
don't suppose
Dobbs is ahead of RJF on the depth chart? Or does that not really matter because the defense rotates?
by Doni S on Sep 6, 2011 11:39 AM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
A guy who has shown that much explosive ability (Dobbs)
I want to see him in a real game and I’m sure the coaches think the same. I think if we have an opportunity to get him in the game we take it.
I’m sure we’ll see Dobbs…question is, will it be against Seattle or week 2 against Dallas? I’m gonna say that if we put a stranglehold on Seattle, then we save him for Dallas. And if that’s the case, Bobo the clown will be eating much turf when the plowboys come to town.
by Doni S on Sep 6, 2011 1:01 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I'd rather it be against Seattle
He was tearing it up last game — don’t make him ride too much pine before putting him in a game situation again.
Agree with this
This kid is on a roll and needs fresh meat. I can’t see much in the Seahawks O line that will slow him down.
the guy's
just flat out scary. I know I wouldn’t want to be the one guarding him for an assignment. Yikes!
by Doni S on Sep 6, 2011 2:49 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm optimistic
that he will become good, but there’s a big difference between the quality of guys he faced in pre-season, and seasoned NFL starters.
He will get there, but until he has a season of strength development, technique, and conditioning under his belt, don’t expect him to rip it up immediately. Flashes of the future, but it’s not here just yet.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Sep 7, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
No surprise
Focusing less on specific position and more on overall roster strength, this is who I thought would get cut. If he’s still available in a few weeks and our team suffers and injury on defense, he could be signed again.
I like what Harbaugh and TB are doing with the roster.
- Thank you SF Giants for an incredible 2010 season and painting the City orange & black!
You gotta bring ass to get ass.
Let's wait for tonight and see what Vernon Davis has to say about this.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
that was the real VD.
crabtree told me so. lol
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
uhmm… the jed york source does not sound credible but the andy lee does. lol
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
demarcus dobbs playing olb linebacker seems more possible now to me
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
I would like to see Dobbs as FB too..
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
fb? that is for soaps to play.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
MaioccoCSN CB Shawnate Spencer and S Reggie Smith expected to return to practice. But Dashon Goldson has missed practices. Fangio not sure who starts.
MBachCSN #49ers WR Braylon Edwards says Trent Baalke is speaking to the league today about possible suspension. Should know tonight or tomorrow
would they really suspend him days away from the opening game? I hope reggie smith starts
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
I am beyond pissed
At how this situation has unfolded…and the ridiculous procrastination on the matter.
Wouldn’t have been upset with a 1 game suspension at all, kind of expected it once he signed. Make that decision a month ago though.
Roger Goodell is a girl… nuff said.
by Niners#3QB on Sep 6, 2011 12:22 PM PDT via iPhone app reply actions
and he thanks you
for his $10,000,000.00 a year salary, great health benefits, his free private jets rides, his free limo service, and his uber retirement plan.
lol
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think they’ll suspend him…give him a warning, maybe. Otherwise I don’t see the point of penalizing both Braylon and the team months after the fact.
by Doni S on Sep 6, 2011 1:06 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I do not think ray mcdonald received any penalties for his dui.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Sep 6, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
Unfortunately I see the point all too well. A suspension won’t surprise me one bit. Remember what coast we’re on.
Sometimes it's over till it isn't.
I’m on the east coast. And if they do suspend him…so be it. He’ll appeal and that’ll be that…
by Doni S on Sep 6, 2011 3:33 PM PDT via iPhone app up reply actions
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