Michael Crabtree? See ya
by BrooklynNiners on Jan 22, 2012 8:42 PM PST
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PrintI know everyone is just as devastated by this game as I am. I know we all blame Williams (or in my case ted Ginn...he just can't man up and play...his whole career all he does is sit out with bs injuries) But my biggest goat for the game...and the playoffs for that matter is Michael Crabtree... For someone who's supposed to be a #1 WR he did nothing this game....I was so excited when we drafted him, and now I can't wait until he's gone. I don't know how everyone else feels, but that's my reaction
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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Crabs consistently misses preseason, and is a Dallas Cowboy at heart.
Better to trade him while he still has value, than to just let him walk.
---
Revenge is ice cream.
Curious
did you watch this game?
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Isn't PW a Cowboys fan also?
"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Jan 22, 2012 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
Was a Cowboys fan
Still think Crabtree is still all about that southern life style, football is everything, cowboys all day way of life. Ill be shocked if he spent his whole career in the Niners organization but I hope he does. He is going to be a great #2 wide out for us. We just need that number 1 guy.
Ignorant generalizations get you pegged as an adolescent
Shouldn’t you be in school?
"I put him up against any of the receivers in the league. I can attest to just how hard this man works every single day, and the people of San Francisco really need to appreciate that."
---Kyle Williams
Yes
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Follow the Chicken on Twitter
by SportsChicken on Jan 24, 2012 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Trade Crabtree and draft picks to move up in the draft to pick receiver Alshon Jeffery South Carolina.
by bmcrae83@yahoo.com on Jan 22, 2012 10:00 PM PST reply actions
trade alex smith for all those ankle passes
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 22, 2012 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
yes
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 23, 2012 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
At least 2 of those were throw aways
The one where Alex bootlegged and VD got jammed at the line by Justin Tuck then Alex threw it at the feet of the tightly covered WR, is one I know with absolute certainty that’s what he was doing.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jan 23, 2012 12:17 AM PST up reply actions
GTF out of here!!!
It’s Alex Smith fault, really??? How is it that the 49ers best receiver is a tight end? While I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t understand Roman’s play calling, like the fact he didn’t call 1 QUICK slant, Vernon Davis was able to get open, while Michael Crabtree couldn’t???
Crabtree reminds me of JJ. Stokes all the potential but lacks something.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
by ESSJPeteDawg on Jan 23, 2012 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
go look at his ankle passes, his first pass to gore, his failed pass to williams.
there was receivers open; alex did not throw to them. even on halftime show they said they are plays to be made down field!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 23, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Says the guy that doesn't realize a smart QB throws at a recievers ankles as a way to avoid intentional grounding.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jan 23, 2012 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
okay... Alex Smith is the greatest QB who ever lived. All his missed throws have only ever been avoided pick-6's. He will be offered 25 years and 100-Billion dollars in FA this offseason ('cause he's that good and all the NFL teams know it)
-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 24, 2012 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
jeffrey
he will fall too us at 30, but he’s got some issues
IOW
He’s fat.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Follow the Chicken on Twitter
by SportsChicken on Jan 24, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
He'll drop in the draft
We could pick him up late in the 1st
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Follow the Chicken on Twitter
by SportsChicken on Jan 24, 2012 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
I second this.
Michael Crabtree had one catch today. I’m not sure if it’s Smith not finding him, the OC not drawing up enough plays to get him the ball, or if it’s simply that Crabs’ execution sucks, but a guy drafted as the #1 WR should be producing a HECK of a lot more than we’re getting from him. I don’t think we should just dump KW for his mistake. There were a lot of mistakes in this game.
He hasn't exactly lived up to his first round expectations
But he had a decent year. Maybe he would have better production if he had a more competent quarterback? I mean Alex Smith didn’t exactly play well in the postseason either, outside of the last 2 drives against the Saints and the one big play to Vernon Davis today. With Alex Smith our offense is really limited no matter which wide receivers we have…
Some people just don't understand the importance of line play and, I guess, never will.
Maybe you saw what the Giants did to Rodgers last week. Was your reaction to that game that the Packers should get rid of him?
You sound like those idiots who wanted to send Vernon Davis packing after his second season here.
Crabtree can do better, sure. But send him packing?
If you think you can expect to do better than Crabtree with a first round pick, you need to take a good look at the history of WRs in the draft.
by Ronaldinho on Jan 22, 2012 11:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
That's a bit of a stretch.
I think you can do better than Crabtree in the first two rounds if you know how to scout wide receivers.
So far he hasn’t given us the production of a decent 3rd round pick. It’s been 3 years — we’ve got maybe 5-6 decent games, but none where he took control like a true #1, and a complete vanishing in the playoffs.
I’m not saying dump the guy, but he needs to be bumped down the depth chart and if his demands aren’t in line with his disappointing production when his contract comes up — then he needs to go.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
I think you can do better than Crabtree in the first two rounds if you know how to scout wide receivers.
I agree his production has been disappointing. That, however, isn’t really the point I’m getting at.
I don’t know if I believe that anybody particularly “knows how to scout WRs”. Case in point, well – Crabtree. He was a player viewed by many scouts as a guy with the potential to be one of the best WRs in the game.
The game for WRs is just so different in college than the pros – college WRs rarely get bumped at the line, and have much softer route-running requirements, to says nothing of the fact that most weeks they’re just going up against guys who aren’t the level of athlete they are – that it’s really hard to see who’s going to be able to translate his game.
I think only QBs might be harder to evaluate.
So it’s not that I think that Crabtree is all that and a bag of chips. What I want to see from him, next year, is an increase in consistency, which I think he can do if he’s healthy enough to work hard with Alex in the offseason/preseason. Rather, my point is that getting somebody better than him in the draft is something of a crapshoot.
Just saying
It’s hard to find the gems, but pretty easy to catch the duds.
College receivers who don’t run an NFL route tree, do not have special speed, size, or acceleration, and have trouble creating separation at the NCAA level have a very low success rate. Even one of these is a caution flag, but all three is a giant red sign saying “stay away”.
His bread and butter in Mike Leach’s system was bubble screens and slants and then powering through arm tackles in the defense optional Big 12 for crazy YAC.
You don’t need that much experience to tell that’s not going to translate as well as you’d like it to. Put him with a crazy accurate QB like Brees or Rodgers and a coaching staff that doesn’t mind risk of making a throw into coverage, and they’d get more production out of him. That isn’t us.
He’s just like many of the other remnants on this team — square pegs added to the team with no clue as to how they were going to fit into the system — what little one we had envisioned. We just brought them in, crammed them into the round holes, and expected them to perform.
Part of the new staffs job is seeing which square pegs can be made round, and which ones are better off on another team. So far he still has lots of sharp edges.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
You act as if he's a bum
Find me all of the other 24 year old receivers in the league with Crabtree’s NFL resume. He’s probably the best fit for the way this team plays out of every receiver left on the roster because him and Josh Morgan (now a FA) are the only ones who can run block consistently.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
by youALREADYknow on Jan 23, 2012 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
I'm really happy with his blocking
But that’s icing on the cake.
He’s not a bum, but I’d like some cake with the icing.
In the context of what we are paying him, in the context of the draft capital we spent on him, in the context of the three years we’ve invested in him as our #1 receiver, he has not produced anywhere close to that level.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Apply that standard to Alex Smith or Vernon Davis
In the context of what we are paying him, in the context of the draft capital we spent on him, in the context of the three years we’ve invested in him as our #1 receiver (QB, TE), he has not produced anywhere close to that level.
"I put him up against any of the receivers in the league. I can attest to just how hard this man works every single day, and the people of San Francisco really need to appreciate that."
---Kyle Williams
I agree with you fully
Of course in Vernon’s case it’s due to the stupid contract we gave him. You never pay that much money to a tight end. When the TE is your #1 target it’s because your offense sucks and you’ll be better off spending that money on better protection or a better signal caller.
Alex, we know what he is. A guy with a ton of heart who did his best to play within his limitations. Bottom line, in the NFL that isn’t enough if you want the Lombardi.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Part of the problem is that if you look at advanced per-play metrics like DVOA -
- Crabtree was only our third-best WR this year.
ANd yet he’s being paid like he’s our best.
Morgan and Williams both had better DVOA as receivers – which is to say they both made the expected play more often (as a percentage of the throws sent their way) and made more out of those short gains.
Crabtree should be better than both of them. He wasn’t. It’s reasonable to say he needs to step up.
It’s not reasonable to say he should be shown the door.
Morgan was actually pretty spectacularly effective
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jan 23, 2012 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I have no real disagreement with you.
My complaint is with people who want to run him out of town on a rail.
Young players develop. Sometimes big ego guys (and Crabtree definitely qualifies) need to struggle a little bit to learn what it takes to be a pro. Since we have a great example of that on this team (in Vernon) I’d think fans would be a little more open-minded.
I have real concerns about Crabree. Is the foot 100% healthy and is it going to stay that way? Even if it is healthy, the fact that he hasn’t gone through a full preseason/offseason program makes it not totally unreasonable to worry about his work ethic.
On the other hand, he’s clearly a professionally capable WR, and still has some upside, and you don’t just get rid of those guys. He may not ultimately be the right fit for us, but I think it’s early to make that decision.
I just don't see that...
See eye-to-eye w/you on so much, but just don’t agree on Crab…
I see a potentially explosive guy (albeit not a burner at all), great leaping ability to go after the ball, very good and very strong hands, catches the ball AWAY from his body (completely underrated WR trait), decent route runner who’s getting better, and a guy who’s good at getting RAC. Good blocker as well, shows no fear going over the middle.
Has improved on his stats in both catches and yards EVERY SEASON.
Coaches like him, teammates like him, he’s building rapport w/Alex…
MULTIPLE plays of 50+ yards down the field in each of his 3 seasons… Not a ton, but a handful. Enough flashes to show that he’s more than just a possession receiver.
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE we need a guy to take the top of the defense, and a true #1 who’d make Crab a #2, fine by me…
But I just see a guy who’s been very limited by quite a few things that are COMPLETELY out of his control (injuries/coaching/QB)… First year w/Harbaugh, 73 catches and pushing 900 yards.
What’s wrong w/that?
-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 24, 2012 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
(re-reading comments... See that we may be closer in opinion on Crab than I though)
(…I’m looking at him in a very positive light, focusing on the plusses…)
(…you’re being more critical, focusing more on what he does NOT do…)
(…but we see and agree on many of the same things.)
-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 24, 2012 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Waiting for a response ...
…because I respect both of your opinions.
"I put him up against any of the receivers in the league. I can attest to just how hard this man works every single day, and the people of San Francisco really need to appreciate that."
---Kyle Williams
lol...
Let me just finish my game of CFL Madden first…
The Roughriders are just KILLING the Alouettes in Franchise-mode.
-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 24, 2012 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
CFL Madden
lol
"I put him up against any of the receivers in the league. I can attest to just how hard this man works every single day, and the people of San Francisco really need to appreciate that."
---Kyle Williams
already giving up on Crabs?
Too soon. Lets get the guy some help and stop depending on the likes of Swain and Williams.
by Ador08 on Jan 22, 2012 11:44 PM PST via mobile reply actions
He had a crap playoffs
But this offense wasnt really built around receivers. I think it will be in the future. But it really wasnt this year. And the 2nd half of the year he played great. If he finally has a preseason he will be just fine and finally start a year great instead of just ending one great. Hes still an important part of our future. Even if its as a great 2nd receiver instead of a first like everyone saw. But If we can get that #1 wide out Crabtree can fill that Anquan Boldin roll very nicely
Just a thought
I know it didnt really work out for the Falcons. But what about us trading up like they did for Justin Blackmon. He is an absoulte monster, we could take him away from the Rams, and him Crabtree Vernon and Kyle Williams would just be unfair.
deion sander need to stop being his damn life coach!!!!
the only thing holding him back is his ego and careless mindsets. If he was playing in the right mind, he would be good.
I can't imagine he was never open all game
Alex was not pulling the trigger. Alex was not throwing any balls as his receivers cut. Zero slants all day? Really?
Webster had him blanketed for most of the day
But it’s not only about “being open”.
You have to be open at the right point in the QB’s drop. If you aren’t the QB has to go to his next read and the WR can jump up and down and wave all he wants — his chance has passed unless the QB has good enough protection that you can improvise a go or comeback. We usually don’t.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
O " boy " ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
It's Crabtree's fault that he ran a perfect route to get matched up on a defensive end 30 yards downfield and Alex Smith couldn't get the ball out on time?
Crabtree was open about 3 times in that game and the play I’m speaking of would be a touchdown if the ball was thrown. I’m not going to rip on Alex Smith and say he blew the chance though because it shouldn’t have been on his shoulders to win the game in the first place.
The bottom line in this game, a rain game in the NFC Championship, is that it should have been won in the trenches and was instead lost in the play calling booth and on punt returns. If we run the ball, then we win the game. If we don’t fumble on punt returns, then we win the game.
Rays in '08.... Desmond Jennings - the breakout continues.....
think this was a combination of Crabtree being locked up most of the day, BUT
also Alex moslty looking for VD, hard to believe Crabtree never got open the entire game…
Drafting receivers
Drafting receivers in the first round is such a crapshoot that I’d rather take the safety in numbers approach, trade down, and take a flier on multiple high-upside WR prospects with question marks instead of investing a late first rounder in a second-tier prospect (this is assuming none of the best prospects are going to be there at 30). Baalke has shown me he has a good eye for talent in the middle rounds. I’d love to see him channel Bill Walsh in ’86, when Walsh traded down twice (and made six trades!) to accumulate 13 picks, then—famously—came away with eight starters and the foundation of another dynasty.
"And the Warriors won, so I guess your household is pretty happy"--Donald Sutherland, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, 1978
Crabtree = JJ Stokes
until he proves himself to be any different
by reedkrase on Jan 23, 2012 1:53 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I think that Crabs is better, but JJ wasn't all that bad
He struggled w/injuries and he struggled w/the fact that….
…there just weren’t enough footballs to go around. Between Jerry and T.O. and Brent Jones and Garrison Hearst getting touches, etc… Just not that many statistical opportunities to go around for JJ.
Good comparison. Similar players. I think Crabtree is a tougher guy w/a better work ethic, but the skillset is comparable.
-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.
by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 24, 2012 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Crazy.
How in the hell can you put any blame on Teddy Ginn? He can’t man up? BS injuries? smh
Crabs had 70 catches and almost 900 yards this year. It seemed like he finally figured it out… don’t know what happened in the playoffs, though. But there’s no way getting rid of him would be a good idea.
"It might be time to give Alex some credit, huh?" - Harbaugh
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