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So ... how do we get better next season?

For the Niners, this season is over ... and what a season it was! Did any of us expect them to finish the regular season at 13-3, and then advance through the divisional round to the NFC Championship Game? I dare say that this season exceeded the expectations of even the most optomistic of us. Fantastic!!

Unfortunately we fell short of the goal. So how does the team improve from here? In the big picture, the answer seems pretty obvious ... the offense needs to be developed to achieve the same level of performance as the defense and special teams. Primarily the offense needs to become far more consistent, avoid so many third-and-longs, and avoid the apparent brain-cramps in the red zone play-calling. Gee, that was easy ... except just exactly how do you do that? Or, as Harbaugh would put it ... how do we get better next season? So now let's look forward toward next season ... to re-signing our own free agents, perhaps to signing free agents from other teams, and finally, to selecting prospects in the April draft. Using the theme "how do we get better?", I began the process by assessing the 2011 performance of each member of the roster, and came up with these questions:

QUARTERBACK I have great respect and admiration for Alex Smith as a person and am extremely happy for him -- and us -- that he improved his on-field performance this season with the coaching of Harbaugh, Roman and Chryst. But has he now reached his peak? Has he, or will he ever, achieved the status of "franchise QB" that this team really hoped for when he was chosen as the #1 draft pick? Can we win multiple Super Bowls with Alex at QB? If we really had a chance to reunite Andrew Luck with Jim Harbaugh, would we draft him? What would it take to get Luck's draft rights?

LEFT OFFENSIVE TACKLE Joe Staley has been a very good LOT for us ... not elite, but very good. But, although he made the Pro Bowl this year, that may be more the result of the team's success than Joe's outstanding play. I can't help feeling that there is no remaining upside with Joe, and he seems to be more injury-prone as the years pass. Could we do better?

RIGHT OFFENSIVE TACKLE / GUARD After a valiant two-year effort, it is not obvious that Anthony Davis will ever be an elite right tackle. He's very good at run blocking but just doesn't have a fast enough slide step to deal with good outside speed rushers ... and while he's improved substantially in other areas, he hasn't improved much with the slide step, if at all. What to do? Give him more time since he's young? How about relieving him from the job of blocking edge rushers and moving him to right guard to take more advantage of his run-blocking skills?

OFFENSIVE CENTER Given that Jonathan Goodwin is a former Pro Bowler, I was actually somewhat disappointed in his early season performance. Fortunately he improved his play significantly as the season progressed. But, how much gas does he have left in the tank? There is absolutely no question that Chase Beeler has the smarts to be a starting NFL center ... the question seems to be whether he can bulk up enough to handle the job physically. I wonder what progress he has made with a year on the PS?

WIDE RECEIVER What about Michael Crabtree and Ted Ginn? Certainly Crabtree has a lot of talent, but for his skill level he seems to drop or miss more than his fair share of passes. Jerry Rice had the same problem during his rookie year, so maybe Crabs just needs more time. More concerning to me is Crabtree's frequent inability to get open. Not a good combination ... inability to get open and dropping passes when you do. Thus, I'm now convinced that Crabtree simply will never be a #1 receiver in the NFL. Being a #1 requires at least one outstanding trait -- size, speed or route-running -- IN ADDITION to great hands. Crabs has the hands but none of the rest. The good news is that he could be a very good #2, a possession guy, if we had a real #1 receiver to absorb more of the defense's coverages.

As to Ginn, I love the guy as a returner and that really is the basis of his making the Pro Bowl this year. He has improved his receiving skills a bit, but his playing time at WR seems more a result of the limited capabilities of the rest of the receiving corps, especially after Morgan's injury, than his own skills at this position. If we added one or two elite WRs via FA signings and/or the draft, would Ginn still be able to compete as a regular WR?

And speaking of wide receivers ... have you looked at the WR rosters of the playoff teams? Interestingly, for eight of the twelve playoff teams their #1 wide receiver is 6'3" or taller, which includes the really big, dominant guys -- Jimmy Graham at 6'7", Calvin Johnson at 6'5", Andre Johnson, Marques Colston and A.J. Green at 6'4", Jordy Nelson, Julio Jones, Eric Decker and Demaryius Thomas at 6'3" and so on. Two of the playoff teams have receiving corps with averaage height of 6'1", and the remaining two teams' receivers top out at an average of only 6'0". Want to guess who "the little guys" play for? The Patriots and the Niners and the Patriots would be the bigger of the two if it weren't for 5'9" Wes Welker! What's my point? We need to give our QBs some bigger targets to throw to if we want to dominate offensively!

CORNERBACK And what about Tarell Brown? Yeah, I realize that he was a starter at CB for most of the year, and his play has improved, but he is the weak link in the defensive backfield. I believe that we can do better ... either with Chris Culliver taking over as he develops or perhaps drafting a first-round CB prospect, since there will be some good ones available in April.

SAFETY In thinking about the Niners' draft needs, what about Reggie Smith's ability to take over if we lose Dashon Goldson to someone offering a bigger contract? Reggie seems to play pretty well ... when he plays. But he also seems to be injured a lot. Is he really a longer-term solution?

After thinking about the players in these positions, I actually came up with two alternative improvement plans ... one more traditional and conservative (focusing on fixes here and there) and the other a lot more radical. I'll post my conservative "normal" approach later, but for now, let's get radical!! Why? Because it's always fun to think outside the box. So, here goes:

THE RADICAL PLAN -- OBJECTIVE AND RESEARCH

I have supported Alex Smith wholeheartedly since the day that he was drafted. And, he has been screwed over many times by this franchise, only to come back and prove everyone wrong. An incredible human being ... I have the very highest respect and regard for him. But this is not about Alex Smith ... it's about what's best for the San Francisco Forty Niners. Can we find a way to upgrade the performance level at the quarterback position? For the sake of once again having a Montana-/Young-/Rodgers-/Brees-type franchise quarterback, I want Andrew Luck as a Forty Niner! And, I'm going to figure out how to get him! Period!

Regardless of who selects him, Andrew Luck will be the #1 pick in the April draft. At first, it looked like the Indy Colts were a shoe-in to get that first pick; but then winning two games jeopardized their likelihood. Fortunately for the Niners, Indy finally managed not to screw it up, and nailed down first-pick rights. (I say "fortunately" because it's much more difficult to make trades within your own division; if the Rams had the #1 pick, even if they were to decide to trade it, it's highly unlikely that they would even consider a trade with us.)

Part of my reasoning behind this post had to do with the opinions and philosophy of Bill Polian, former Colts' Vice Chairman, father of the GM, and general personnel guru, about playing rookies -- he avoided it unless absolutely necessary. After this season's disaster, Colts' owner Jim Irsay said that he felt that it was time for a "new era" in Indy; accordingly, he terminated both Polians and wanted to "start over" by hiring a more consensus-building, press-friendly GM than Bill, who was notably authoritarian and prickly with the Indy press. On January 11th, Irsay announced the hiring of Ryan Grigson as the Colts' new GM ... very surprising. Grigson just completed his first year as the Eagles' Director of Player Personnel after spending less than four years as the Eagles' Director of College Scouting. This guy is an incredible lightweight as compared to either of the Polians. Plus, Irsay says that he will make the call as to whether Manning returns to Indy AND that he probably will also make the decision on the #1 draft pick. Welcome to your new job, Ryan ... you're in charge ... uh, sometimes and regarding some issues!

The big unknown now is how much of Polian's personnel views (after running the team for 12 years) have become institutionalized ... including with Irsay. It's obvious that "starting over" includes a new GM and a new HC, but does it include playing a lot of rookies, a concept that Polian would resist? And, given Manning's apparently slow recovery from surgery and the concern about his being able to return at 100% next season, will Irsay be willing to pay Manning's monumental $28-million roster bonus next spring? Do they gamble ... pay and keep Manning, hoping that he can start? Restructure his contract? But why would Manning be willing to do that? Trade him? Beyond that, would Luck be willing to sit on the bench until Manning retires? These are all tough decisions with big-dollar consequences ... and all to be decided by this less-than-highly-experienced prospect-evaluation "brain-trust."

With the regular season concluded and the draft season coming up, the talking heads have begun debating what the new Colts' leadership should do with their #1 pick. The most obvious choice is to draft Andrew Luck, but most pundits seem to believe that Indy "has significant needs at so many positions" that they should consider trading down from #1 and pick up as many additional draft picks as possible. And, it may get even worse. Paul Kuharsky (ESPN columnist) says that Indy's roster needs may be getting even more complicated by the probable retirement of veteran C Jeff Saturday, and the free agent departures of WR Reggie Wayne and DE Robert Mathis. Wow! They will have a new GM, a new HC, they don't know who their starting QB will be (but certainly NOT Orlovsky or Painter), AND, for players, they "need almost everything." Other than that, no problem!

Actually, Indy does have some good young players ... but not nearly enough to make serious progress next season just by adding rookies, especially just at QB. They need additional young experienced players to build around. Since the Colts apparently "need everything", let's get specific and determine what "everything" really means. As most of you know, after each season and in preparation for the NFL draft each year, Draft Tek puts together a chart of each team's ranked draft needs. They rank needs from 1 (critical) to 9 (no need). Draft Tek uploads this table as well as a forecasted final list of expected drafting order of teams to their computers, then run that against their data base of ranked prospects by position. The output, of course, is Draft Tek's 7-round mock draft, updated as input data changes. Here is Draft Tek's opinion of Indy's draft needs as of the end of the regular season:

Priority 1: No positions listed

Priority 2: CB

Priority 3: LOT, ROT, OG, OC, DT

Priority 4: QB, WR, DE, OLB, FS

(Parenthetically, before Kuharsky's comment about the probable retirement of Saturday and departure of Wayne and Mathis, I had checked Draft Tek's draft priorities for Indy. At that time, they had listed LOT, QB, DT and CB as Priority 2 needs, and ROT, OG, WR, SS, OLB, DE and FS as Priority 4. Not really major changes, just reducing the QB priority with the idea that Manning MAY be back and adding OC as a bigger need after Saturday's retirement. With this many needs, the specific priorities are somewhat irrelavant.)

My God! Indy's needs are massive! Yet more complications: (1) there is mention that the Colts would like to add improved KO and punt return capability; (2) the Polian-led Colts drafted Anthony Castonzo last year and played him at LOT, but have now concluded that he would be much better at ROT ... hence the high draft priority on a LOT; and, they drafted Ben Ijilana last year and tried to play him at ROT. He is currently on IR, but they seem to have concluded that he would be better at OG; thus, the need for a new ROT.

Finally, Michael Lombardi (NFL Network), I guy who seems to be pretty well plugged in to what is REALLY happening in the NFL, has two comments: (1) "Peyton Manning will be a Colt; he will not be traded"; (2) Indy needs a "complete overhaul" of their roster.

THE RADICAL PLAN -- SCHEMING

If you think like I do, you realize that in termoil there is opportunity. All of Indy's issues and the comments about them start whirling around in your brain ... and eventually a possible scenario emerges. In a nutshell, here is my conclusion: We may have happened upon a "perfect storm" of circumstances which could (1) provide us with a 12-15-year, elite-level franchise quarterback who some say MAY be one of the best prospects to come out in the last 20-25 years, (2) upgrade the team at certain other positions which will help us get better yet, and (3) do so without really decimating our current roster or available April draft picks.

Here's the scheme. First, we sign Alex Smith, Ted Ginn, Reggie Smith and Chilo Rachal (bear with me) to contract extensions. Then, we offer Indy a package of SEVEN young veteran players (i.e., NOT has-beens or draft choices), most of whom are or have been starters, some Pro-Bowlers, in exchange of Indy's #1 and #3 2012 draft picks. This package of players to include:

1. Choice of QB Alex Smith (Round 1 - 2005) or QB Colin Kaepernick (Round 2 - 2011)

2. WR/KR/PR Ted Ginn (Round 1 - 2007)

3. LOT Joe Staley (Round 1 - 2007)

4. OG Chilo Rachal (Round 2 - 2008)

5. FS/SS Reggie Smith (Round 3 - 2008)

6. Choice of CB Tarell Brown (Round 5 - 2007) or CB Shawntae Spencer (Round 2 - 2004)

7. Choice of DT Rickey Jean-Francois (Round 7 - 2009) or DT Ian Williams (Free Agent - 2011).

IF Indy believes that Manning can't/won't return or will be traded, they can select Alex Smith as an immediate starter. On the other hand, if they believe that Manning will return, they can select Kaepernick as a substantial upgrade as Manning's backup now (over Orlovsky or Painter) and heir apparent when Manning retires. Ginn would replace Reggie Wayne and serve as returner, which they really don't have now. Staley would take over LOT for Costanzo, who would move to ROT. Rachal would join Ijilana as the starting OGs. The rest of the trade package offers experienced veterans as additional needed starters. Indy could rebuild using experienced, young NFL veterans rather than unknown rookie draft choices (with possible results like Costanzo and Ijilana), so this could be a very attractive offer. Also, guys like Alex Smith, Joe Staley and Ted Ginn would replace the senior leadership in the Indy locker room that will be lost with the absence of Saturday, Wayne and Mathis.

Finally, while teams sometimes avoid player trades for fear that the players involved may come back to bite them, being outside the division and even outside the conference, this trade would be comforting to the Niners and inconsequential to the Colts.

WAIT A MINUTE!! HOLD IT!! YOU WANT TO BLOW UP A CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYOFF TEAM? ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY NUTS? Well ... I don't think that I'm nuts and here's why I'm willing to do the deal: I am not interested in having a team that goes one-and-out, two-and-out, or even three-and-out. The goal is to build a team that will consistently play in the Super Bowl, every year. Probably the best comparison is the New England Patriots during the Brady years. THIS PLAN , I believe, is how to do just that!

Wow! That's a gutsy call ... so how do the Niners come out of this deal giving up so many players? Actually, not badly at all. Here's how:

1. We move Anthony Davis from RT to starting RG.

2. We move Alex Boone from swing tackle to starting RT.

3. We get Drevno and Solari immediately working with Davis and Boone at their new positions in the off season.

4. We move Adam Snyder from RG to swing tackle/guard/center; or, Snyder could replace Goodwin at center if he would be considered an upgrade.

5. We promote either Kilgore, Person, Hall or Beeler as backups from the Practice Squad.

FILLING REMAINING NEEDS -- THE DRAFT

Obviously prospect ratings and rankings will change between now and the April draft as we move through the Senior Bowl this week and the Combine next month. So, the ranking and rating data below reflects current data as of January 24th, but will change. IF draft selections were being made TODAY, what follows would be my picks, but they will most assuredly change before the actual draft. Notice that my suggested trade package does NOT include trading our first round draft pick. Thus, my suggested draft actions are:

Round 1 -- Pick #1 (from Indy):

QB ANDREW LUCK (Stanford) 6'4" 235 4.72 Grade* 99 / Rating* 9.0 / C Rank* 1 / A Rank* 1

Replaces either Alex Smith or Colin Kaepernick

Round 1 -- Pick #30 (own pick):

LOT ZEBRIE SANDERS (Florida State) 6'5" 307 5.25 Grade* 87 / Rating* 6.6B / C Rank* 39 / A Rank* 42

Alternative selection:

LOT MIKE ADAMS (Ohio State) 6'7" 320 5.28 Grade* 83 / Rating* 6.9C / C Rank* 35 / A Rank* 28

Replaces Joe Staley

Round 2 -- Pick #62 (own pick):

Select from:

WR DWIGHT JONES (North Carolina) 6'4" 225 4.53 Grade* 76 / Rating* 6.9D / C Rank* 62 / A Rank*58

WR BRIAN QUICK (Appalachian State) 6'4" 216 4.63 Grade* 78 / Rating* 6.1 / C Rank* 69 / A Rank* 114

WR STEPHEN HILL (Georgia Tech) 6'5" 200 4.57 Not graded@ / Not rated@ / C Rank* 104 / A Rank* 80

Replaces Ted Ginn at WR and eventually becomes #1WR (with Crabtree moving to proper #2WR)

Round 3 -- Pick #64 (from Indy):

Note: Minnifield & Gilmore will likely already been selected; if not, pick one; otherwise, pick Johnson

CB CHASE MINNIFIELD (Virginia) 6'0" 185 4.49 Grade* 82 / Rating* 6.5B / C Rank* 49 / A Rank* 45

CB STEPHEN GILMORE (South Carolina) 6'1" 193 4.52 Grade* 78 / Rating* 6.9J / C Rank* 34 / A Rank* 40

CB TRUMAINE JOHNSON (Montana) 6'2" 204 4.52 Grade* 76 / Rating* 6.6C / C Rank* 73 / A Rank* 80

Chris Culliver replaces Tarell Brown / Shawntae Spencer; Minnifield/Gilmore/Johnson replaces Culliver

Round 4 -- Pick #94 (own pick):

TE LADARIUS GREEN (LA -- Lafayette) 6'6" 236 4.64 Grade* 68 / Rating* 6.1D / C Rank* 108 / A Rank* 110

Note: For those who don't know of Green, think Coby Fleener but faster and less polished; obviously I would prefer Fleener, but he will go early-mid second round

Replaces Justin Peelle as #3 (receiving) TE while Nate Byham returns as #4 (blocking) TE

Round 4 -- Pick #126:

FS/SS GEORGE ILOKA (Boise State) 6'3" 220 4.50 Grade* 67 / Rating* 6.4 / C Rank* 108 / A Rank* 126

Replaces Reggie Smith

Round 5 -- Pick #158:

OG BRANDON BROOKS (Miami OH) 6'5" 353 5.32 Grade* 66 / Rating* 6.8D / C Rank* 206 / A Rank* 258

Note: The rankings for Brooks vary widely; I have selected him here, even though his C Rank* is 206, because some draft services have him ranked as high as 120; I believe that he will be drafted before the 6th round.

Replaces Chilo Rachal

Round 6 -- Pick #190:

DE JACK CRAWFORD (Penn State) 6'5" 267 4.79 Grade* 68 / Rating* 5.9U / C Rank* 200 / A Rank* 182

Added depth at DE

Round 7 -- Pick #222:

DT DEREK WOLFE (Cincinnati) 6'5" 300 5.16 Grade* 30 / Rating* 5.8 / C Rank* 204 / A Rank* 197

Replaces Ricky Jean-Francois or Ian Williams

* EXPLANATION OF GRADES, RATINGS AND RANKINGS:

Grade = Assigned by ESPN Scouts Inc. -- scale is 30 to 100, where 100 is highest possible grade.

Rating = Assigned by National Football Post (Wes Bunting) -- scale is 5.0 to 9.0, where 9.0 is highest possible rating.

C Rank = conservative ranking -- it is the mean of the prospect's expected selection spot as assigned by (1) New Era Scouting, and (2) NFL Draft Scout services as of January 23rd.

A Rank = overall ranking -- it is the mean of the prospect's expected selection spot as assigned by (1) New Era Scouting, (2) NFL Draft Scout and (3) Draft Tek services as of January 23rd. Draft Tek re-ranks a data base of more than 500 prospects weekly; as a consequence, their ranking for any given prospect can vary almost wildly, and sometimes inconsistently, from week to week; therefore, I don't pay too much attention to their rankings until after the Combine and shortly before the Draft.

@ = Stephen Hill is a Junior and just recently declared for the 2012 NFL Draft; accordingly, he has not yet been graded or rated by the respective services

.

REASONING BEHIND DRAFT SELECTIONS

There are three potential positional needs which might have been addressed in this draft (RB, OLB and NT) but were not, deliberately. First, the running back position. If we evaluate Frank Gore's career in the form of the classic bell-shaped curve, it's obvious that he's past his peak ... closer to the end of his career than the beginning. So, we need to start thinking about his ultimate replacement. But what about Hunter and Dixon? IMHO neither one is the right guy to become Frank's replacement. I love Kendall Hunter as a COPRB but he is simply not built to take the physical beating required of an every-down NFL running back; he has a long career ahead with the Niners, but as a COPRB, not "the guy." Anthony Dixon is a good (but not great) "banger" but has not shown all the skills needed to be "the guy." I considered selecting the RBOTF this year but there were only two prospects that really turned me on -- Trent Richardson (Alabama) and Chris Polk (Washington) -- but, given our critical needs after the proposed trade, we simply couldn't select a RB high enough to get either one. We probably could get Bernard Pierce (Temple) at selection #94 but he really is a second-tier guy who lacks speed ... so I passed. Why? While this draft is the year of the WR, next year (2013) may be the year of the RB. It's too early to evaluate the entire potential list of candidtes, but it will include Marcus Lattimore (South Carolina), Knile Davis (Arkansas), Eddie Lacy (Alabama), Spencer Ware (LSU), Cierre Wood (Notre Dame) and so on, a much deeper group to select from ... so let's wait a year and hope that Frank can stay healthy.

Now, why not additions at the linebacker positions? Basically, same reasoning. There are some guys that we could consider this year, but next year's crop for the most part will be better. Think Brandon Jenkins (Florida State), Jarvis Jones (Georgia), Devin Taylor (South Carolina), Chase Thomas and Shayne Skov (Stanford), and again, on and on. Let's wait and load up next year. Or, we could consider the free agent market IF the "right guy" was available.

As for nose tackle, there will be more quality NT prospects in the 2013 draft available to us than this year. Some of those prospects include Kwame Geathers (Georgia), Sylvester Williams (North Carolina), Baker Steinkuhler (Nebraska) and Jesse Williams (Alabama).

THE RADICAL PLAN -- BOTTOM LINE

If for some reason the new Indy brain-trust is unwilling to do the deal as proposed, we could simply drop the request for their third round pick -- or maybe reduce our request to a lower-round pick or even all seven players just for the #1 pick. As a consequence, we would probably miss out on being able to draft BOTH a tall WR AND a tall TE to help in the Red Zone. Life's a bitch sometimes! Perhaps we look to the free agent marketplace to fill tthat gap.

So, what is the downside to this proposed "blockbuster" trade? Worst case, we might go backwards next year until Luck and Sanders / Adams adjust to NFL-level game speed, but I would expect Luck to play better for the Niners than for any other team because he's been playing Harbaugh's system for the past three years and has the existing rapport with Harbaugh/Roman. As for Zebrie Sanders / Mike Adams (versus Joe Staley), they will make rookie mistakes, but the rest of the vet OL will help them grow. As they develop I believe that either has far more upside than Joe Staley. We'd have to replace Ginn as the KO returner with Kendall Hunter, and Ginn as the punt returner with Kyle Williams (come on, give him a break), certainly an acceptable price. Losing the other players? Honestly, not that big a deal.

Harbaugh wants to have a power running game ... Sanders / Adams, Iupati, Goodwin (or Snyder), Davis and Boone. THIS is an OLine built for POWER ... average height 6'6"+ and average weight 320+. Oh, and by the way, having Andrew Luck throwing to the likes of Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Ladarius Green, Michael Crabtree, Joshua Morgan, Kyle Williams, and a future big #1 WR like Jones / Quick/ Hill wouldn't be all bad either.

When I first conjured up this idea, I thought that it was "interesting" but probably not achievable. Then, after knowing that the Colts had the #1 pick and the extent of their player needs, I thought that maybe we could package a deal that would be attractive to them. Now, the more that I think about this scheme the more I like it. It could give us huge upside for an extended period going forward, especially with some key additions at running back and linebacker in 2013. Would Irsay and Grigson go for this kind of trade? It would certainly be easier and faster for them to rebuild with young veteran players (Pro-Bowlers and starters) than with draft choices for rookies.

So there you have it ... the Radical Plan. I would love to have Harbaugh see this and hear his reaction! What do YOU think? If Indy wouldn't bite, what else would it take? Would Andrew Luck be worth that much? What are your thoughts about this big-picture plan going forward? Remember ... "if you're not getting better, you're moving backwards." Got better big plan? Please share it with us.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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then we should draft one of those corners, see if they are in fact an upgrade

and then cut brown the following season. I’m not Brown’s biggest fan, and wanted him cut/replaced at the start of this season, but he had a good season, did some great things, and had quite a few interceptions. I’d at least make a rookie draft pick take his starting position before thinking about cutting him.

by reedkrase on Jan 26, 2012 8:09 AM PST up reply actions  

You're vastly overrating this years corners

Every year it happens. Last year was supposed to be the best year for corners in decades.

What did we see? Peterson was smoked regularly until the refs stopped calling his shanking of receivers somewhere around game 10, Jimmy Smith has looked competent in limited play time, Chris Culliver has shown upside while playing #2 corner in our nickel package, and Richard Sherman came out of nowhere to be a good starting corner in Seattle.

That’s it.

Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.

by Ougadas on Jan 26, 2012 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

hahaha, good one.

"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh

by SanFranciscoKnights on Jan 26, 2012 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Serving up a lot of slop for trade bait. They’d probably want someone like willis and one or two high picks

by john13holmes on Jan 25, 2012 12:20 PM PST reply actions  

Doesn’t matter what round they’re drafted; question is can they play – Aaron Maybin was the 5th overall pick in the year he was drafted and he sucks – if we had him you want to offer him up too? Most of these guys are back up types ; and you’re trading those guys for a franchise qb?

by john13holmes on Jan 25, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Slop? Really?

1. 8 of the 10 players offered (not Kaepernick or Williams) are or have been NFL starters.
2. 2 are Pro-Bowlers.
3. 6 of the 10 were drafted in the first two rounds.
4. Most importantly, if Manning doesn’t return, ALL 10 are better than what Indy has, or will have, after free agency!

Seems to me you may want to reevaluate your definition of “slop”.

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 25, 2012 1:22 PM PST reply actions  

You should really step back into reality. We'd have Manning on this team before Luck and I want it, but I know it won't happen.

Also, Why would even consider gutting a nfc championship roster for a rookie QB? Luck doesn’t play defense or special teams. Alex Smith needs to go, he won’t but I guess some need him to prove again that he doesn’t have what it takes.

"What the hell are you mixing in that look-aid"

by rlott#42 on Jan 25, 2012 2:41 PM PST reply actions  

OK, I accept ... "Alex Smith needs to go". So what the hell are you going to do for a QB? Kaepernick? Get real!

Why am I interested in trying to get Andrew Luck? Easy. I have been following the NFL draft closely for the past 50 years … in that time I have NEVER seen ANY prospect get the highest possible rating even from ONE scouting service. Andrew Luck gets the highest possible rating by EVERY SINGLE SCOUTING SERVICE. NOBODY, EVER, has done that before. I’m willing to gamble that some of those guys know what the hell they’re talking about.

Beyond that, there is NO other quarterback — existing pro, including Smith, or draft prospect — who could step into the starting QB role for Harbaugh/Roman and not miss a beat … he’s been playing their system for four years (including redshirt year). I have no doubt that Luck, even as a rookie, would be an immediate upgrade over Alex Smith. More importantly, he would be among the best franchise QBs from day one and on, and, baring injury, FOR THE NEXT 12-15 YEARS. What the hell is not to like? I say pay whatever it takes other than trading irreplaceable players.

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 25, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

This team that wants to build in the draft will not mortgage as many picks as it will take nor gut it's roster for a QB.

Throw the top ranked defense away, and add a rookie. At least Kaepernick knows the playbook and has a year under this regime, IN THE NFL. Luck is still a prospect, who cares about ratings, I can guarantee all these people you are talking about have gotten more wrong than right.

"What the hell are you mixing in that look-aid"

by rlott#42 on Jan 25, 2012 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

This is well good and all

but that trade offer has 0% chance of happening anyway.

Colts would want guys like Willis and Bowman, not a bunch of backups and 1 or 2 players who would be average starters.

by Odekerk on Jan 25, 2012 11:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Any deal for Luck (and it's NOT going to happen, the Colts are going to unload Manning soon)...

…would take something like this kind of price:

-Willis
—Vernon Davis
—Culliver
-
#1 in 2012
-#2 in 2012
-
#1 in 2013
—#3 in 2013

Think I’m exagerrating? Just you wait and see…

-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.

by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 26, 2012 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think you're exaggerating at all.

That sounds about like what they would be looking for. It would gut our team and our future picks.

by Odekerk on Jan 27, 2012 12:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I also would love have Luck on this team. Alex Smith is NOT a Super Bowl quarterback; he doesn’t exhibit any traits that the current or past elite quarterbacks had/have. Even though Luck hasn’t played a single professional down, I think he has those traits. In order to get him though, we’re definitely gonna have go give to get. Willis and 2 high picks should do it. Without an elite quarterback we’re gonna be like the Ravens: always ending up disappointed.

by john13holmes on Jan 25, 2012 7:02 PM PST reply actions  

Just one question ... why would Indy prefer 2-3 draft picks for unproven rookies rather than 7 young, proven starters?

Indy got burned just last year with both their first- and second-round picks … they drafted Costanzo in the first round to play LOT, and he can’t cut it so they’re moving him to RT. Then, they drafted Ijlana in the second round to play ROT; anthough he’s on IR, they’ve determined that he can’t play tackle and must move him to guard. That kind of drafting (admittedly by the Polians, not the current regime) is what has their roster in such a mess right now. Again, why opt for untried rookies when you can improve your roster substantially, today, with proven players?

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 25, 2012 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Completely false. Had it not been for kyle williams, he’d be playing in the superbowl, plain and simple. Look at Big Ben or Eli Manning during their first superbowl runs and tell me he can’t reach that level, if not exceed it. Turn off espn, you don’t need an elite QB to win a superbowl.

by milesf on Jan 26, 2012 8:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Sign and trades

I need to double-check, but I was under the impression you can’t trade a guy right after signing him. Not quite positive though about that.

by David Fucillo on Jan 25, 2012 7:07 PM PST reply actions  

Anthony Davis is not a good run blocker.

Davis isn’t good at anything period.

That trade offer for the #1 pick is laughable.

by Odekerk on Jan 25, 2012 11:24 PM PST reply actions  

Anthony Davis, not a good run blocker?

Check the statistics on rushes to the right, in fact it appeared that Gore had his most success going right.

"What the hell are you mixing in that look-aid"

by rlott#42 on Jan 25, 2012 11:27 PM PST up reply actions  

On NFL.com

the left side had 3 more negative plays, but also had 9 more first downs and 6 more plays of 10 or more yards.

I’d say that’s more success to the left.

by Odekerk on Jan 25, 2012 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

In one game? One season? How about 2?

Last season the right side ranked atop the league, do you have a link? Don’t need 1, I never research them myself.

"What the hell are you mixing in that look-aid"

by rlott#42 on Jan 25, 2012 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I love you Odekerk

Aaron Curry is the first Seahawk since Walter Jones to have a legitimate shot at Hall of Fame induction - John Morgan

by Fearless Frog on Jan 26, 2012 2:27 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

The entire 2011 regular season.

In 2011 and 2010 the were one of the 10 worst teams in both terms of sacks and QB hits. Pathetic.

The right side of the line did better in 2010 (only 6 negative plays [i assume ‘Neg’ means negative]), but didn’t do well in the other statistics compared to the rest of the NFL.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

And this confirms what I saw this year. Anthony Davis is bad. He’s like a deer in headlights whenever he’s blitzed and doesn’t run block well. He has his moments, but typically if an o-lineman is this bad throughout his first 2 years of play, he won’t ever be worth much in the league. It’s pretty obvious he’ll be starting again next year much to my chagrin, so I hope he turns it around, but I certainly don’t see it and I hope we either sign or draft someone that will push him in training camp or outright take his job. Maybe Boone can step up too. PFF is also pretty adamant about how bad Davis is.

by Odekerk on Jan 25, 2012 11:54 PM PST reply actions  

lol

"What the hell are you mixing in that look-aid"

by rlott#42 on Jan 26, 2012 12:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, I say a lot goes into that calculation. Too many heavy run formations screaming run, in my opinion.

Geez that is a lot of negative plays, but Davis is a 2nd year tackle, can we give him half as long as Smith? he had a good game vs the giants.

"What the hell are you mixing in that look-aid"

by rlott#42 on Jan 26, 2012 12:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Like I said, Davis has his moments.

And there’s nothing to say he won’t be starting at RT again next season. So he will have more time regardless of whether I want him too or not. I guess we’ll all just have to see how he prepares for the season and how he comes back next year. I, for one, am not expecting much improvement if any at all.

by Odekerk on Jan 26, 2012 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely no way this happens...

What makes these players any better than the fodder Indy already has on its roster? Trade scenarios like this are nothing but pipe dreams, and only happen in Madden. No self respecting brand new GM is going to trade away the #1 overall pick for a small group of players that will arguably make his team marginally better.

by 9thevolution on Jan 26, 2012 6:51 AM PST reply actions  

Dang , you need a hobby or I guess this is your hobby , Nice , but far fetched ...!!

I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!

by Edggy on Jan 26, 2012 7:56 AM PST reply actions  

No rookie QB is worth that many players

you’re trading 20% of our team. AleX earned another year to prove himself.

Have you stopped to consider what if Smith improves as much in 2012 as he did in 2011? Given how unlikely his improvement was this year, I tend to think he may improve greatly next year again. He has a full offseason with the coach, get him a couple more WRs and I think we’re good for 2012.

by reedkrase on Jan 26, 2012 8:15 AM PST reply actions  

Those players aren't even close to the worth of the #1 pick to the Colts regardless.

I have a better chance of stealing Gisele from Brady than that trade happening.

by Odekerk on Jan 26, 2012 8:32 AM PST up reply actions  

point was even if there was a slim chance I'd call it a bad deal for the 49ers

and you may as well take a shot a Gisele, honey badger . . . you know the rest

by reedkrase on Jan 26, 2012 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

What have U been Smoking?

You don ’t blow up our teams chemistry for 1 guy ! Resign the Defense and Ginn. Bring back Morgan and Snyder. Cut Chilo and Spencer. Try and keep Spillman and Costanzo. Draft 2 Wr and 1 rb or sign Peyton Hillis cheap. Bowe and VJAX are not affordable, maybe Wayne or Garcon.

by dglove49 on Jan 26, 2012 2:22 PM PST reply actions  

Sign Alex... Develop and secretly utilize "Magic" footballs during games

Five undercover Spotters in the stands will PAINT THE TARGETS (laser range finding technology used to “MARK” each 49ers receiver on any given play) and then the MAGIC FOOTBALLS will be LASER-GUIDED toward their ultimate destination.

It’s all going to be very hush, hush… Very CIA, very SpecOps and, well… The Patriots are probably already doing this. C’mon, we know they cheat… And Tom Brady? Seriously? He’s a RAG ARM 6th round pick…

-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.

by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 26, 2012 4:21 PM PST reply actions  

Laughingly ... OK, I accept, you guys just don't get it ... you don't think beyond next week.

Here is the REALITY in two years:
1. Luck > Smith, under ANY circumstances.
2. Zebrie Sanders > Staley, easily, after adding bulk in the weight room; potential multi-year Pro Bowler.
3. Dwight Jones or Brian Quick > any WR we’ve had since TO left … but miles and miles better than Ginn will ever be.
4. Trumaine Johnson > Tarell Brown, probably after year one, and will make Pro Bowl within three years.
5. Ladarius Green will be nearly as good a receiving TE as Jimmy Graham, but certainly the equal of Vernon as a receiver, not so as a blocker.
6. George Iloka > Reggie Smith ever thought of being.
7. Brandon Brooks COULD become one of the dominant OGs in the NFL … but needs A LOT of development.
8. Crawford and Wolfe could help in the DL … maybe not great but certainly better than Jean-Francois or Ian Williams.

Don’t know what else to say. Clearly, you guys have done NO home work. IF this deal could be pulled off, and I admit that it is a VERY BIG IF, it could become one of the greatest trades EVER. But it’s OK, I accept that you just don’t get it!

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 26, 2012 4:56 PM PST reply actions  

"NO" homework?

Your Andrew Luck trade proposal — the players you’ve suggested from our side in the deal — it’s just LUDICROUS… Sorry. But that’s the truth. YOU need to do a little more homework.

Again… Any deal for Luck (and let’s just say for arguments sake that the Colts are willing — they are NOT most accounts, much to my chagrin, I love Andrew Luck), the price will be HISTORICALLY steep. Something like

—Willis
—VD
—Culliver or Iupati or Anthony Davis or Staley
—1 & 2 picks in 2012
—1 & 3 picks in 2013

Look… I LOVELOVELOVE me some hypothetical trades for Andrew Luck. Get to dream about that until the draft (when that particular dream will die… :-/ ) and I’ll stay stupidly hopeful even though I’m 99% sure it ain’t gonna happen.

But MAKE YOUR HYPOTHETICAL TRADE SCENARIO’s PLAUSIBLE.

Alex Smith? Staley? Ginn?

Reggie Smith?? Chilo (Chilo???)? T.Brown?? Shawntae “Didn’t Play” Spencer?? Seriously? Trade these guys…? They might be CUT… Who the hell trades for these guys, let alone in a package for Andrew Luck?

But thanks for the read, and by all means, keep dialing up those hypothetical trades for Andrew Luck. Any discussion about QB’s and Andrew Luck is a GOOD DISCUSSION, IMO!

-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.

by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 26, 2012 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Oops! Thanks for your comments ...

Here’s the thing:

1. Don’t know whether you’ve actually looked at Indy’s roster, but, believe it or now, the guys that I propose trading are SUBSTANTIAL UPGRADES (with the obvious exception of Manning … but who knows what his health status really is?) over what they have now. Hard to believe? Yes, but … they REALLY are BAD!! Really, every single guy (except Kaepernick, if they choose him over Smith, and possibly Ian Williams, if they choose him) that I propose trading would be an immediate starter for them! Really! I’m not kidding! Look for yourself!

2. They are NOWHERE CLOSE to being able to put together a competitive team with their existing roster modified only by the addition of draft prospects. Alternatively, they will have to sign a substantial numer of veteran free agents (at BIG $$ — which Irsay won’t like given his commitment to Manning) to have any hope.

3. Thus, I really do believe that a trade, such as the one I propose, may be their very best answer to getting back to respectability within a short period of time.

4. I am NOT in concrete about the specific players that I proposed trading … I selected them to fit what I perceive to be Indy’s most important positional needs. Would I be willing to change the composition of players? Of course. But, there is a group of about 20 players or so that I would not be willing to include in the trade, under ANY circumstances.

5. Is Luck really worth this much? Who knows for sure? But I can tell you this … I saw Elway play all four years at Stanford, and I knew that he would become a great pro QB. I have also watched all of Luck’s three years as a starter. My conclusion: Luck will become the better pro QB! Why? He doesn’t have as strong an arm as Elway had, but he is far more cerebral, sees much much more of the field, and has a better “touch” than Elway had (i.e., Elway only knew one speed in college … rocket). I honestly believe that Luck is worth whatever it takes to get him!

Just a quick sidenote about Elway: He was a starter in his Freshman year and, of course, had enormous advance press. Since we had season tickets, I attended his very first game. In the pre-game warm-ups Elway was making every throw like a rocket; most amazingly, I saw him knock two wide receivers off their feet with 20-yard sideline throws … wow! But, ask him to throw a touch pass in his Freshman year? NO WAY!

by 49erFanSince1950 on Jan 26, 2012 8:07 PM PST reply actions  

Look... No matter how you slice it......

…the players you’re suggesting the Colts would be interested in make your proposal LUDICROUS.

Stop w/the “it’s an upgrade for them” rationale… Why trade for some of those guys when quite a few are LIKELY TO BE CUT? And that’s being generous and assuming the Colts would even have interest in some of those guys.

Look… I koo-koo for Cocoa Puffs about Andrew Luck myself. I’m imagining the 49ers are as well (just like every team in the NFL). I imagine because of Harbaugh’s relationship/experience w/the guy and all the Colts needs, the 49ers will at least lob a phone call to Irsay to see what’s up…

…and then Irsay will proceed to tell the 49ers that they’d have to give the Colts the SUN, THE MOON, the EARTH, and the STARS for the Colts to even consider thinking about a deal.

So if you think the 49ers will give up Willis, Vernon Davis, and maybe Joe Staley, along w/2 or 3 number one picks and maybe 2 or 3 2nd and 3rd round picks, well then sir, you might be in business… BUT THAT’S THE KIND OF PRICE IT WILL THEORETICALLY TAKE TO LAND ANDREW LUCK.

I’m 99% sure the 49ers won’t be willing to pay such a steep price.

Only chance I think we have is if SOMEHOW the Colts decide to make RG3 the pick. Then just maybe some kind of miraculous chain-reaction gets set in motion that…… Ah hell. That ain’t gonna happen either… ;-/

-- I have many leather-bound books.
-- You show me a guy that can’t juggle 3 tennis balls within an hour and I’ll show you a guy that’s not going to be in the NFL very long.

by I'm Friends With Merlin Olsen on Jan 27, 2012 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Hrmm... let's take several angles here

First, the way this hurts us. Trading away that many players does put us with a decent chunk of dead money on the roster. Maybe we could survive that year and it doesn’t hurt us too much. So maybe that’s not a big deal at all but it could be if the number gets too high.

Second, some of the reasons the Colts wouldn’t do it. Primarily because they are a drafting team, not a trading team, and they let more free agents go in their prime than they sign. Also some of these guys (Staley, Rachal, R. Smith) do not fit the schemes they run, unless they are going to blow everything up and start from scratch.

Third, let’s look at who we get in return. The big piece is Luck. I’m cautious about Luck. Luck had years under Harbaugh which means he is very polished in his game and may be very close to his ceiling. That is some reason for concern. The second big piece is the replacement at left tackle. If you make the right call between Sanders and Adams our O-line is good to go. If you make the wrong call or there is too long a development time then our line is royally screwed.

Some other thoughts about the draft and personnel moves.

Personally I think Gilmore and Minnifield are both gone in the mid second at the lowest but that’s not something I see set in stone. It is possible that one falls to the beginning of the third but it’s not a very good possibility.

I don’t like Boone at right tackle. I actually like him more at left tackle where his athleticism is a bonus against speed. He looked good there filling in for Staley but had problems filling in for Davis against larger rushers — mainly because he has a bad habit of getting too high when he gets tired.

One thing I’m really interested in is to see how Person, Kilgore, and Beeler show up to training camp. Kilgore and Person needed to put on some weight and Beeler needed to put on some serious mass before he could even think of playing center at this level. If he was going into a ZBS or pure passing team maybe he could swing 5-10 more pounds and play at 290 or 295, but in a power running system he needs to be a quick 310 plus or he’s getting no push up the middle. So I’m not holding my breath on Beeler.

I was actually more excited about what they said when they drafted Person — that they were looking at him as a center. He had almost the prototypical frame and was already a hair shy of 300 and every coach and scout in his history raved about his smarts concerning protections and blocking schemes. But we had him listed at tackle all year so who knows.

Jones, Quick and Hill. I’d probably be most excited about Hill, but that’s also likely because nobody has seen much out of him playing in the GT “run 20 times then throw it deep” attack. One thing we wouldn’t have to worry about is his blocking ability. Jones and Hill both have issues with the dropsies which is a big concern, and Jones has a horrible time getting off the line for a guy his size. Quick is going to have a rough time adjusting to the jump in competition. He’s already having a rough time adjusting to the level of BCS level competition at the Senior Bowl. The NFL will be a huge shock.

So all in all not a bad idea, it’s just that the NFL is a pretty complicated place.

Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.

by Ougadas on Jan 27, 2012 5:59 AM PST reply actions  

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