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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Big Trouble in Little Free agent Land


Been doing the math and the chances of retaining our core players from 2011 seems unlikely. Alex wants 11 million a year i hear, Rogers wants 8 at least, Golston 6-7 per year. That's 26 million on 3 players alone leaving only 19 to resign all the rest, and sign rookies and other free agents. I personally don't think Alex is worth 11 million, but Kolb and Fitzpatrick screwed up the whole darn thing. Those great 1 year deals we got last year might kill us this off season.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.

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Ah the business aspect of the NFL

it happens, however their still is a pride aspect, the pride of being on a team of men that means more than just a paycheck. yes, those that deserve to get paid should, and those that can get paid will… however, money is not the only thing driving all players because sometimes money can not buy fame (HoF or rings).

by danknerd49 on Jan 29, 2012 9:03 PM PST reply actions  

however...

how many times you gonna use that foo?

by danknerd49 on Jan 29, 2012 9:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Would love to see

Smith’s and the Niner’s expectations for a contract differ so greatly that things take a turn towards interesting.

by salary_cap on Jan 29, 2012 9:41 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah

Personally, I’d love to see what would happen if Smith wanted a lot of money and Kaepernick and Tolzien were tearing things up. I’d bet a lot that Greg Roman is tired of limiting his playcalling because of Alex Smith’s weaknesses. Speaking of which, did anybody else notice in the Pro Bowl that Andy Lee throws a better quick out route than Smith does?

Not a troll

by Riding The F Train on Jan 29, 2012 11:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I have strong doubts that Tolzien is "tearing things up"

Kaep still needs more time as well. He is as raw as raw comes.

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jan 29, 2012 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

This

People undervalue the importance of time especially when it comes to the development of fundamentally raw QB’s like Kaep.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"

by FearTheTree on Jan 30, 2012 12:21 AM PST up reply actions  

how do we know how kaep is progressing?

Not saying he is ready, but there is really no way to know one way or the other…sure he was extremely raw, but big improvements could be made in a year

by KGboomer on Jan 30, 2012 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

he knows everything and everyone else knows nothing

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess the only way you can estimate if Kaep is improving or not is by using statistics

Assuming that it follows a normal model. But even then we can’t tell because we don’t know have enough data to create the normal model.

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

honestly Harbaugh clearly knows QB's better than any of us

so I trust him to make that decision before next season (assuming we resign Alex) about who should start, and before someone calls me an Alex “hater”, my best guess would be that after the decent year he just had he will be the one under center.

by KGboomer on Jan 30, 2012 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

But he has an unfair advatange that he actually gets to see the QBs practice

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

"raw" is a polite way to say

that a guy sucks right now but has some athletic ability.

by salary_cap on Jan 30, 2012 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

You mean the one that Patrick Peterson made a spectacular 1 handed catch on?

rolls eyes Did you notice that Cam Newton threw 4 interceptions and Andy Dalton was completely ineffective?

Gimme 1 round!

by ItBurnzWhenIP on Jan 29, 2012 11:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn't watch the game...

But 7/9 for 99 yards and 2 TD is inneffective?

by mrg80 on Jan 30, 2012 8:31 AM PST up reply actions  

don't put too much stock into

a pro bowl game, clearly some players try a bit harder than others.

by itsAteamGAME on Jan 30, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Figured out the riddle, congrats.

16 = Montana
16/2 = 8 = Young
8/2 = 4 = Lee

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"

by FearTheTree on Jan 30, 2012 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

that was a nice pass by Lee

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 12:37 AM PST up reply actions  

the answer to convservative play calling

is NOT handing the reigns to a 2nd year “raw” “project”…

by salary_cap on Jan 30, 2012 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

so 8th year project is better? lol

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 31, 2012 1:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes. It is.

Regardless of how witty you want to be, Alex is a million times better option than Kaep right now.

Good try, tho. I guess.

"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."

by Blank x2 on Jan 31, 2012 12:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

who are the other free agents?

mostly fillers and special teams; rookies make way less with the new cba and niners pick at 30. niner have enough to sign everyone they want. alex will get back-up money anywhere else

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 29, 2012 9:52 PM PST reply actions  

yeh no doubt

The smell of BS is strong

by mrg80 on Jan 30, 2012 8:20 AM PST up reply actions  

For those who hate Smith,

Manufacturing data is standard procedure.

by HighFive on Jan 30, 2012 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

And for those that love Smith it's common to bash people who dislike him.

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 9:17 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

When you "And"

It implies that you are agreeing with the “manufacturing data” comment.

“And” What is inherently wrong with bashing the bashers. Actually, most of the bashing comes from the “anti” certain niner group. They get bashed for bashing niners without real data.

by HighFive on Jan 30, 2012 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

real data? lol

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Well i agree some of the evidence provided doesn't stick but the same can be said for the Smith lovers.

But honestly I’ve seen more lovers use personal attacks than the bashers.

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he misheard it.

It was 11m 2 year deal. So 5.5 m a year.

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 9:16 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Yeah, last i heard that was the beat writer's guess and not based on anything

If there is a report that is based on leaked info or something, let’s see it. A beat writer guessing is not reality.

I don’t think Alex is going to get great offers if he waits until he is a free agent and tests the open market. I’m sure the Niners are going to offer him a deal that is around what other teams will offer him, which probably isn’t going to be more than 5-6 mil/year.

But who knows, maybe the deal is back loaded, maybe it is laden with incentives? Who knows, as far as I know, all the reports are based off guesses and not actual info from the parties involved.

Same with Carlos Rogers and Dashon Goldson, who knows what they want.

We heard that Rogers might be willing to give a home team discount, but wants a multi-year deal. Maybe his version of ‘home team’ discount is different than what the Organization feels, but Rodgers did state he was open to that.

Goldson hasn’t really said anything about free agency, or contracts, or where he wants to be next year. We know that he wanted a big payday last year and was willing to leave for it, but who knows about this year. It’s probably safe to say he wants a multi-year big contract, but if the Niners Franchise tag him, the 2010 rate for a free safety was $6.455 mil.

by pt33 on Jan 30, 2012 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

i think it is safe to say that goldson wants more than 5 years 25million again this year, franchise tag seems perfect for him

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah, if he wants that kind of money

I see a franchise tag on him or the Niners letting him walk if they find a replacement they like through trade or free agency.

Maybe he is willing to take less now after last off season’s wake up call on what the league things he is worth. I didn’t read anything about him even getting an offer from another team last off season. No doubt teams will call his agent, but if the agent states he is looking for 6-7 mill a year for 5 years min, they’ll probably just say ‘no thanks’ and hang up.

by pt33 on Jan 30, 2012 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

doubt he is willing to take less than what he turned down, he turned it down and had the best year of his career

although he may not be so greedy this go around.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

http://www.sportsoverdose.com/topic/alex-smith-contract-negotiations.html

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

not sure what you're trying to say with that link

It quotes Kevin Lynch as reporting the following:

Rumors of a three-year deal worth between $8 million to $11 million are out there. Based on the latest contracts for quarterbacks, those figures could go higher, even when figuring a home town discount.

That is possibly the worst sourced statement I’ve ever read. pt33 is right — the beat writers are just guessing, and no one has anything concrete.

by ninerspride on Jan 30, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks, I felt like I was taking crazy pills reading some of these comments / fan post

Forget about the rumors for a second, let’s take a look at the situation and the facts that we do know.
1) Smith is a free agent in a few months
2) Niners are a very good team that has a super dominant Defense.
3) Niners have a solid coaching staff
4) Smith did a good job of what was asked of him, control the ball and don’t take chances unless it is necessary. Another words, be a game manager. (I think Smith showed this year that he is not just a game manager, he is capable of more)

Looking at the facts, it is safe to say that the Niners can start to attract talent to this team. The Niners are winners, the play in warm weather and have a good front office/coaching staff.

I think that Alex Smith needs the 49ers more than the 49ers need Alex Smith. Don’t get me wrong, retaining Smith is very important to the Niners, but how many teams are going to offer Alex Smith a starting job? Of those teams, how many of them are likely to have a better record that the Niners next season? They way I see it, the only teams that are going to offer Alex Smith a lot of money are desperate teams that have a horrible record.

I’m sure the Niners aren’t going to low ball Alex Smith, but I’m sure that Alex Smith would be willing to make a million less a year playing for the Niners and remain with Harbaugh than go play for a team like the Cardinals or Redskins.

If Smith wants ridiculous money to play for the Niners, like $11mil/year, I’m sure the Niners would say, “Ok then. Go test the market, we will look elsewhere, thanks for last season!” Who is going to offer Alex Smith 11mil/ year? The Cardinals? Nope. Deadskins? Probably not. Colts maybe? Someone to protect Luck during his first year? Probably not for 11 mil/year, nope.

Also, this is the same Alex Smith that has a ton of money already, the dude is loaded and under 30. History hasn’t shown him as money hungry, he did restructure his contract a few years ago for less money, he didn’t’ have to do that. I think the Niners are going to do well with the Cap room. I’m sure there is going to be some turnover, once thing that Balke has shown, he won’t overpay players. We have a good coaching staff to develop young players, we appear to have a great scouting system in place, the formula of drafting young talent and developing them to produce right away seems to be working!

I have confidence in this team and organization! I also think that Alex Smith is smart, NOT money hungry and would rather be in a position to start & WIN, rather than go to a team that would pay him $500k or a Million more to possibly play for their crappy team.

by pt33 on Jan 30, 2012 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

this.
I think that Alex Smith needs the 49ers more than the 49ers need Alex Smith.

This is I think the key to the negotiations. It doesn’t matter how much Alex Smith is worth to the 49ers — the important question is: How much is Alex Smith worth to any other team? Not much, in my mind. And that’s why he won’t be getting a crazy contract this offseason.

by ninerspride on Jan 30, 2012 1:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

this.

Any speculation on contract demands is just that: speculation. We have a fuzzy picture of what rogers and goldson want, given that they were both free agents last year. But no one has any clue what Smith wants.

by ninerspride on Jan 30, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

If it's back loaded

That doesn’t sound bad if it’s back loaded. If he doesn’t work out the next year or two, the niners can cut him and not take that big a hit, I’d say that’s fair.

The QB usually makes the most on a team, that is just the way the NFL is. Paying Smith 6-8 mill a year isn’t that bad, if the contract escalates to 10+mill/year, and it is east to get out of, I don’t see the problem with that.

by pt33 on Jan 30, 2012 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

No 5 year contract

If his agent wants that, laugh at him, suggest he shop around the league, and make plans to start Kaepernick in 2012.

Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.

by Ougadas on Jan 30, 2012 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

agreed

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

hellsyeah

1. Kelechi Osemele, OT/G, Iowa State
2.Xavier Rhodes CB FSU/ Vinny Curry OLB/DE Marshall/ LaMichael James*, RB, Oregon
3. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR/PR, Georgia/ Alex Okafor*, DE, Texas
4. DeMarlo belcher WR Indiana
5. Casey Hayward, CB, Vanderbilt
6. Marvin Jones WR Cal
7.T.J. Barnes*, DT/NT, Georgia Tech

by rlott#42 on Jan 31, 2012 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

If that what he wants

then I will pass

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

No, his agent wants Tom Brady money.

Since we apparently just making stuff up now. LoL

"Bears are crazy, Willie. They'll bite your head off if you're wearing steak on it."

by Blank x2 on Jan 31, 2012 12:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

11 mill

sounds like a reasonable request for the agent and Smith, who is an 8th year QB who just made $6 million or so and was just part of a team that went to the NFC champ game. This is to say, it’s a reasonable request given his market value, though I think it is clear he is not an $11 million QB and he is fortunate he was able to ride the coat tails of an elite defense an ST.

by salary_cap on Feb 1, 2012 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

$19M left over isn't enough?

Who else do you think the team is bringing in at what cost?

by bignerd on Jan 30, 2012 10:57 AM PST reply actions  

drew brees
carl nicks
mario williams
vincent jackson
desean jackson
masrshawn lynch

I think that about sums it up lol, clearly not enough with 19million left over.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind Lynch at all

dude is a beast.

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

totally agree

he could want to play here also since he grew up in the bay area

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

How old is he now?

by KGboomer on Jan 30, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

25

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Good for one last contract

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

yes sir

he runs hard and breaks lots of tackles.

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 30, 2012 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

guy broke our records

He owes us something.

And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman

by manraj7 on Jan 30, 2012 2:32 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

agree

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 31, 2012 1:28 AM PST up reply actions  

oh thought he was a little older than that for some reason

in that case I wouldn’t mind signing him either. If the guy can run against the Niners D he is no chump

by KGboomer on Jan 30, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Jan 31, 2012 1:28 AM PST up reply actions  

I think he deserves an incentive-heavy, 3 year/$18-$20 million contract

He finally got over the hump this past season, but let’s see what he’s got for the next few years. Bring in a big wide receiver via free agency to give him so more help and see if he can get us a Super Bowl ring (or 2).

by Liquid Pantyhose on Jan 30, 2012 4:20 PM PST reply actions  

Who’s Golston? We have Vernon Gholston?

"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais

by MichaelClutchtree on Jan 31, 2012 11:38 AM PST reply actions  

No worries....

With the exception of Goldston, I don’t think there are too many teams beating down the doors of either Alex Smith nor Carlos Rogers. They have both only had 1 really good year (2011) out of the time they have both been in the league. As for the rest, most are probably roster fillers as they only signed 1 yr deals. I wouldn’t lose too much sleep.

K.C.Edwards -AKA- "THE" DarkkStarr

by DarkkStarr1 on Jan 31, 2012 2:11 PM PST reply actions  

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