Is the 49ers Defense The Answer For the Offensive Red Zone Woes?
One of the running story lines late in the season was the struggles of the team when they got into the red zone. There was a stretch where it seemed like they should have just sent out the field goal unit as soon as they got there because nothing seemed to go right. In one brutal stretch they scored three touchdowns in 18 red zone trips.
However, over the last three games of the regular season, the 49ers have scored six touchdowns on nine red zone appearances. I can't say for certain what is the difference, but Coach Harbaugh did provide one possible explanation in his Monday press conference. He said that over the last three weeks, the 49ers offense was getting some work in against the 49ers defense in red zone practice sessions.
Normally the 49ers face the scout team, which is meant to simulate the upcoming opponent. In this case though, practicing against a solid red zone defense instead of just the practice squad might have been a key to improving. They did face the Rams this past week, but the Seahawks and Steelers are both in the top ten in red zone defense, so this wasn't just beating up on bad defenses.
As the 49ers head into the playoffs, red zone execution will remain key. Their three potential playoff opponents are an interesting bunch. The Atlanta Falcons are near the top in red zone defense, while the New York Giants and New Orleans Saints are near the bottom of the rankings. The 49ers will need to get it in gear no matter which of the three they play.
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Good piece of info
That makes alot of sense. Keep doing it. That is a dramatic increase. Wonder if other teams do that as well…
by Jninernut on Jan 3, 2012 8:27 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Well, that is all & good...but
I think a little more aggressive play calls attacking the end zone would help….take shots in the end zone more.
It appears the 9ers are to conservative & content with passes short of the end zone then praying the WR or TE will run for yardage into the end zone before getting tackled.
When in the Red Zone, ATTACK the end zone call plays throwing into the end zone more.
Running in Red Zone one thing, Im talken about when passing in the Red Zone…Attack it!
agreed. but...
I know what you mean. They definitley play for 3 it seems like alot. But also the play calling in general when they play better teams has been much more aggresive as apposed to rams/redskins etc… they get this lets get the “W” and get out of here mentality.
This is a Catch-22.
Being more aggressive in the Red Zone is good in theory but can lead to momentum changing interceptions and other mishaps. While I questioned the playcalling at times this year as well, I don’t think they should “ATTACK” the end zone on every passing play. Coming away with 3 points is better than none at all.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
Absolutely
White our offense has had problems, we are still ranked 11th in scoring. Not too bad when you pair us with our D and special teams.
I get the sentiment
I feel they just need to get more creative in the red zone. With Gore, Hunter, and Dizon, I don’t think they need to completely abandon the run in the red zone.
More play-action, bootlegs, QB sneaks/designated runs, heck maybe an option play or two.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
by Badly Browned on Jan 3, 2012 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
Or heck
A slant or draw would be more creative than the vanilla stuff we had running before.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
by Badly Browned on Jan 3, 2012 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
I agree.
Bootlegs on first down, quick slants to Crabtree or even motioning V.D. out wide and throwing a fade if there is a mismatch. Another idea I like is putting both Gore and Hunter in the backfield to flare out and let them work in space. Something to keep the defense honest.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
VD
I know he’s not the greates of route runners but how more plays for Davis in the red zone are not called is beyond me!
Of course the defense is the answer. The defense is always the answer for our offense
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Jan 3, 2012 9:18 AM PST reply actions
Except that the offense are the ones which have to actually convert .
Which they have done the past three games. I didn’t see Patrick Willis out there running in a touchdown, though he probably could have.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
Scoring is not as much of an issue for the Niners as some fans make it out to be.
The team is 11th in points scored, which is far better than many people want to give them credit for. Everyone points to yards but that is an overrated and overinflated stat in my opinion. The Niners find a way to put up points, and against whoever they play in the NFC playoffs I expect that to continue.
That said, I really hope they get TDs in the RZ as they have recently. I worry that settling for just FGs might backfire one of the games in the playoffs.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
I worry that settling for just FGs might backfire one of the games in the playoffs.
No it won’t, teams like the Saints, Packers, and Lions don’t score very many points, we can easily score FGs against them to keep up
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Jan 3, 2012 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
You do realize we beat the lions, right? In Detroit.
Packers and saints are averaging 35 points a game, so listing those two in your sarcastic comment was at least logically sound, even if I think it’s misguided. Why would you throw the lions in there? The lions are a great example of how our defense does bring high scoring offenses down to a level at which our offense is competative.
If you’re going to make snide negative comments, at least make them logical.
Considering the Niners already beat the Lions on the road I don't think you can count them.
Your disdain for the offense is well documented, but if you look at the Saints offense outdoors and some of the more recent Packers game (aside from Week 17) there is a distinct possibility the Niners will be able to keep the score relatively low. I like the team’s chances if they continue to score six touchdowns per nine trips to the Red Zone. Factor in that the defenses of those three teams aren’t very good and SF can certainly hand around and win.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
And by relatively low,
I mean somewhere between 20 and 30 points. I’m not suggesting that they will shut either team out or anything absurd like that.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
I would be much more optimistic if people could say that “I believe our offense could keep up” and not “I believe our offense could keep up… if our defense stops them”
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Jan 3, 2012 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
I look to the Eagles game as a template
When we fell behind bad we showed we could open it up and put up points, and that was early on in the season (of course we are much more depleted at WR now due to injuries).
Some may reply with the defense the Eagles played (or lack of), but neither Breen Bay or the Saints have shown they can really stop the other team – they simply rely on being able to put up more points.
My main concern is if we get a lead whether we keep the killer instinct or go conservative. I fear that we go too conservative (the one thing everyone complained about Mooch as HC), and that we give the other team a chance to get back in it. Both GB and the Saints are capable of making successive quick-strikes and changing momentum very fast. Heck, we saw what almost happened with the Rams…
by ColoradoNiner on Jan 3, 2012 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
It's funny how the Eagles game isn't referenced enough....
when talking about if the Niners can 1) come from behind multiple scores and 2) score points quick.
With games against a Green Bay or NO or even the Pats (if we meet in the SB), the point is not whether we can score 35+ but we stay within 7-10 pts if we’re down OR even better, can we hold them to under 20pts (I believe we avg 14 per game).
I think we hold all those team to lower scores and play the 1-2 TDs/2-3 FG game.
But its a team game.
Expecting our offense to score 40 is unrealistic. Thats not how the team is built nor how they want to play. Expecting them to score 25 and allow less than that is much more probably. Take into account special teams and that means the games should be tight.
And as CN states below, the offense has shown the ability to come back this season if need be. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
Completely fair, but honestly does any team have a shot at beating New Orleans or Green Bay
without a good defensive performance? Aside from each other of course.
And this is the playoffs, Clutch. All the teams are good at this stage. I don’t think any fan of any team is overly optimistic. A lot of Packer fans are just as concerned about their defense as we are about our offense. I’m sure they could even mirror your comments:
I would be much more optimistic if people could say that “I believe our defense could stop them” and not “I believe our defense could stop them… if our offense keeps up”.
we did score 48
against Tampa; of course, that’s the game which cost us Joshua for the season but we still put up 48…and now that our red zone scoring issues have ‘supposedly’ been addressed, i’m not all that concerned about New Orleans (provided they beat Detroit this Saturday) because 1) that game would be @ Candlestick ~ 2) our entire team will have had the benefit of an extra week of rest to ‘heal-up’ and ~ 3) 2 of the Saints’ 3 road losses this season came @ the hands of St. Louis and Tampa while ours came @ the hands of Baltimore [1st round bye and 2 seed like us] and Arizona [.500 overall season]
That said, the Saints (if it’s them we face in the divisional game) are beatable…even more so if they’re the road team and their opponent has had an extra week off). Besides, Brees will be forced to win this one on his arm seeing as we’ve yet to give up a 100 yard rusher or TD on the ground @ home this season. If his average starting field position is somewhere back at his own 15 yard line, that’s a tall order to complete
This is just a poor offense
Red zone offense is just part of the picture. We are also very poor at converting 3rd downs and getting tough yards when we need them. If we want to be this conservative we at least have execute the power running game well, and we don’t.
If we could at least execute the power running game, then fine, be as conservative as you want and eat up a quarter every drive and run David Akers out 7 times a game. I’d love it. I’d do cartwheels and dance a jig. The problem is you can’t line up with 2 backs and 2 tight ends and run right at the defense. Line up like that and you put 10 men in the box and the defense is still in their base look and gives up nothing in coverage.
If you want to line up in that heavy a set you’re going to have to make the counter, trap, reverse series your bread and butter or switch completely to a zone blocking system. There is just too much size and speed on defense in the NFL to line up like that and run straight at the defense.
It works against the much lesser athletes in the PAC 19, but not in the big leagues, and the sooner our coaches figure that out the better. In fact I’m starting to get disappointed that they haven’t. It shows we are not doing a good job of self scouting our tendencies. Our dominant runs this year have all come on counters, whams, traps, and other misdirection running plays. When we line up heavy and crash into the line — failure after failure after failure.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
The 3rd down percentage is the most troubling stat for the Niners offense for me.
The team is 11th in points scored, so they are finding a way to get on the board. It does seem like they want to bang their head against the wall far too often. The surprising thing is they have a ton of creative plays that have been run but tend to go out of the window on 3rd down and other short yardage situations.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
3rd down percentage stat
is slightly overrated. Like the “4ths quarter comeback” stat. It’s not meaningless, sure, but you don’t have to convert 3rd downs when you convert 1st and 2nd downs.
No matter how good your offense
You are going to face 3rd down. Many of them. Each one you don’t convert is at best 3 points, but usually just a failed drive, and at worst a punt from deep in your own end zone. Our defense and Andy Lee have saved us from the worst many times this year.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Don't forget an offense
that doesn’t turn the ball over. Contemplate this: we haven’t turned the ball over, not on INTs, not on fumbles, in 5 1/2 games. That turnover differential is just as much a credit to the O as it is to the D. In many ways I’d rather have the O that punts than turns it over.
Every punt is a turnover.
The only difference is field position, and when you start getting near midfield that difference gets smaller and smaller.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Field position is huge when you bring a D
Go back and watch the Steelers game and tell me field position meant nothing.
Or maybe
go back and watch the Lion-Packers Thanksgiving game, where points off of turnovers, giving the Pack the short field, gave the Packers the win.
The point of field position
is to score touchdowns. If you can’t you are telling your defense they have to be perfect. One mistake that gives up a big play for 7 points and it’s a 3 possession game if you can’t score touchdowns. I watched the Steelers game, our defense was perfect. Asking them to be perfect against the Saints and the Packers is beyond stupid.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
It's only what they've been doing all year
On the other hand, the Saints and Packers are going to have to play perfect against our defense.
Their horrid defenses aren’t going to stop our offense enough times.
Yeah you are dreaming
We aren’t that great against the pass when our defense has to keep coming back on the field.
Tony Romo lit us up, Eli Manning lit us up, for god’s sake, Kellen Clemens and John Skelton lit us up.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
They "lit" us for yards
but not points. We are 13-3 for a reason. And that is real.
But you are forgetting about how bad the defenses of those other teams are.
If they don’t force turnovers, they are statistically very poor. The Niners have shown nothing all season to show they will not be in this game. Even the ones they have lost have been close, and if they are in the game I’d say they have a shot. They will be tough games but I think you are severely undervaluing the 49ers chances, especially at home against the Saints.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
Isn't redzone offense the last thing to come around in any offense?
And if they are 6-9 in their most recent attempts, things should look better moving into the playoffs. Also, taking 3 pts over “aggressive” play calling is the better way to go in the playoffs. Again, we have an ELITE defense. Points, turnovers and field position are premiums. The Detroits, Bills (at one point), Green Bays, NO’s of the league take the approach of scoring a lot more than the opponent to help the defense. The niners have the opposite and if history serves right, elite D’s/great Special Teams/Efficient O’s win Super Bowls.
Right.
If we go into Green Bay, of course I am going to favor the Packers to win. But I think we have a good shot to beat them. If Saints come to Niners, though, I’m going to favor the Niners. Saints are a great team, and if they had homefield advantage, I would favor them to go all the way. But they don’t, and they are a different team away from the Superdome. Saints are riding a wave of hype right now, but many forget they’ll have to win AT Niners and AT Packers to get to the Big Game.
At Green Bay isn't as bad as At NO...
Cold, outdoors, sloppy, messy football is exactly what we excel at. But yes, edge to GB, but I do think it’s less difficult than in the Dome (thankfully we’re playing at the Stick!)

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