So You Want To Compare The 49ers To the 2000 Ravens, Do You?
by Pat Willie on Jan 3, 2012 3:03 PM PST
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PrintNiner fans, let's all stop comparing the 2011 49ers to the 2000 Baltimore Ravens right now. I get embarrassed for people when I hear that kind of lazy thinking.
First of all, the Ravens were only 12-4 in that season, and they did not get a 1st round bye. They didn't even win their division. But that's not even half the story, is it? That's just a win/loss record. The 2000 Ravens were good because the Ravens' defense was one of the greatest defenses of all time. The 49ers defense isn't even the top ranked defense this year. So lets not compare our defense with theirs...The fact is, they are only like the Ravens defense because they can stop the run. The 49ers are actually better in that they have given up only 3 rushing touchdowns all year, compared to 5 given up by the Ravens in 2000. Unfortunately, the comparison stops there. The real strength of the Ravens defense was the ability to take the ball away. The 49ers don't even come close my friends. We have to rely on our offense to help us keep our turnover ratio positive.
So that brings us to the offensive comparisons, because we all know that's where the real comparisons are being made right? What we are really saying is Alex is another Trent Dilfer, right? Let's see if the numbers add up first.
Dilfer threw for 136 yards a game, getting 12 touchdowns and 11 interceptions for a 76.6 QB rating. Compare that to Alex's 197 yards a game, racking up 17 touchdowns with only 5 interceptions for a 90.7 QB rating and the numerical comparisons don't add up.
Why don't they add up? Well, its because Alex is a better quarterback than Trent Dilfer was, that's why. It's not even close. Dilfer gave the ball away 11 times in 11 games. In 11 games where he threw for 136 yards a game, he gave up 11 interceptions. In his entire career he never had over 60% completion percentage and he never had a 3000 yard season. Alex had both this year. Alex Smith is not like Trent Dilfer, we can put that talk away right now.
If you want to say the rest of the offensive components of the two teams are similar, that's fine with me. You can compare Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes to Frank Gore and Kendall Hunter if you wish. You can even compare Sharpe and Ismail To Davis and Crabtree. I won't nitpick the offensive line comparisons either.
And, if you want to say Alex is a game manager, that's fine as well. But let's also say that Alex is a WAY better game manager than Trent Dilfer ever was. The two things about these teams you can't compare are the defenses and the quarterbacks. The Ravens of 2000 were a turnover turnstile; they had 65 turnovers in 16 games. That's more than 4 per game. The 49ers have had 45, or less than 3 per game. Not that 45 turnovers is paltry, but its not 65. And then, of course, there is the fact that Alex Smith is way better then Trent Dilfer ever was.
Comparing these two teams is lazy, if all you mean to do is compare Alex to Trent Difler. You might not think that Alex is the greatest quarterback in the NFL right now, and he has some VERY good competition for that, but he's sure as heck a better quarterback than Trent Dilfer ever was. People have to stop making that comparison right now. They're only going to embarass themselves.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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wow.................
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
The comparison is about how they win, not necessarily stats and personnel. They had Lewis, we have Willis, but, Willis is not that good yet. There isn’t a superbowl team that this team compares to, at least not one we want to mention on this site.
"What the hell are you mixing in that look-aid"
by rlott#42 on Jan 3, 2012 3:49 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
It's about personnel, It's always about personnel
I’ve heard the defense/run game comparison less than I’ve heard the Alex/Trent and the defensive comparisons. Fortunately we don’t get the Willis/Lewis comparisons yet.
How they win is how half the teams play. It’s hard to put together a team that plays the run game well, stops the run game well and has a passing game. If you do, you get to win all the time. The way the Ravens were winning was by taking the ball away. They were not an exceptional run team. Their defense was exceptional against the run, true. But it was the turnovers that got them their wins.
The comparison breaks down if you try to compare our offense to theirs most of all. We have 17 turnovers? I think that’s the number. The Ravens were giving the ball away at a similar rate to the rate we are taking it away this year, in the 40’s somewhere. We could never win if we gave the ball away like that, our defense isn’t good enough.
Basically, everyone want’s to point out our offense as a weakness and call us too cautious, but our offense is making our defense look just as good as the defense helps the offense. And they do it by not turning over the ball.
Alex manages more production than Dilfer ever had, and he does it without giving away the ball. That’s the big difference.
"When they pull the chains off, I’ll come back just as strong as when I left, if not better" - 52
I definitely agree with the comparison between the takeaways.
I felt like the Ravens defense that year were more likely to score on you than their offense. They were nasty.
Affectionately,
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,
NBA’s All-Time Leading Scorer
I'd rather compare them to the 2001 bucs
Draft: 1. Kendall Wright 2. Trumaine Johnson
FA: Smith, Morgan, Brooks, Rogers, Snyder
by whistlingmountain on Jan 3, 2012 4:57 PM PST reply actions
The 49ers are so much bettter than that team...
Alex could be closer to Brad Johnson 2002 though. The 2002 TB defense had 31 interceptions though.
"When they pull the chains off, I’ll come back just as strong as when I left, if not better" - 52
sorry I meant 2002, the super bowl team
Draft: 1. Kendall Wright 2. Trumaine Johnson
FA: Smith, Morgan, Brooks, Rogers, Snyder
by whistlingmountain on Jan 3, 2012 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
Meh the turnover thing can be misleading
2000 was before they started all of the Flag football rule changes, where you could mug a receiver before, during and after the play (among other offense assisting changes).
Great post.
Very interesting.
Lets just hope that 10 years from now people are comparing some other team to “that 2011 9ers team that had the great defense and the offense that went off in the playoffs on the way to the Super Bowl win.” I know that is a lot for this fictional person to be saying but if they could also throw in something about me being really attractive and maybe my legendary love making skills I would appreciate it.
Joe, Jerry, Steve, and....Who is next?
I don't think anyone said this team was EXACTLY like the 2000 ravens
Just similar in that they play great defense and do just enough on offense to win games. NOt going to light up the scoreboard but they don’t have to. They run the ball well and stuff the opponents run game.
To compare teams player by player and then say “See they are not similar” is absurd. Of course no two teams are exactly alike but similar yes.
Call me cautiously optimistic....because I know what the Niners do to people who have real optimism (see the last 8 years).
No, he is flat out saying they are not similar ... cause he didn't make it clear enough
Ravens Defense >>> 49ers defense
I think we're most like the 2010 Bears
well, until Cutler whimped out and refused to become the first NFL QB to finish a game with a completely torn knee ligament.
Just like last year, people who haven’t been following the team closely can’t figure out if we’re for real.
If Smith goes down with injury that might make the difference in a close NFC championship game.
Obviously this comparison has nothing to do with statistics, player comparisions, coaching or anything remotely related to football, other than fan perception. But I submit that good enough to say the 2011 niners are most comparable to the 2010 Bears.
Didn't Philip Rivers finish a game on a torn ACL?
We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.
2010 Bears?
That is insulting. It was already mentioned, the best comparison is the 2002 Bucs. Very efficient defense, so-so offense that is capable of getting hot for the playoffs.
Interesting post
But I’m not so sure on your turnover numbers. As near as I can tell the 49ers forced 38 turnovers this year (23 interceptions and 15 fumble recoveries) while the 2000 Ravens forced 49 turnovers (23 interceptions and 26 fumble recoveries). Both scored 1 defensive TD while the 49ers had 42 sacks and the 2000 Ravens had 35 sacks. The biggest difference, other than forcing more fumbles, was the Ravens only allowed 16 TDs and 10.3 points per game while the 49ers defense has given up 23 TDs and 14.3 points per game. I’m getting my stats from the internet so I could be wrong, but I think your turnover numbers are off. As a side note, the 49ers offense is averaging 23.8 points per game while the 2000 Ravens offense averaged 20.3 points per game.
In the world of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
Sorry, I ment to say the Ravens O averages 20.8 points per game
But again, I’m pulling my numbers off the internet and we all know how reliable that can be.
In the world of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
I did some looking too.
And found the same thing. 65 turnovers in 16 games just seemed like a ridiculous number. Does anyone have a link that shows that as the numbers? I looked on pro-football-reference.com and a couple others sites as well. Its still a difference of 11 turnovers forced, but I don’t comparing the two is that far off base. No two teams are going to be exactly alike and I think the fact that both were led by stellar MLBs and average (at least perception-wise) QBs is the reason most people do that. Some also might be using turnover differential, which the Niners are +28 while the Ravens were +23. That doesn’t mean the Ravens D wasn’t better, but its something that people might just quickly look out without context.
Not to mention that its hard to evaluate both defenses and offenses based on the rules changes and everything recently.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
I see where my mistake is...
I counted all the Ravens fumble recoveries, offense and defense.
I guess the 49ers defense is better than the 2000 Ravens. My mistake, sorry about that.
We should win the Super Bowl pretty easily then. No worries guys, go back to whatever it was you were doing.
"When they pull the chains off, I’ll come back just as strong as when I left, if not better" - 52
Well statistically the Ravens were still better.
Both in taking the ball away and ppg. But I just don’t think its too crazy to compare the two.
Twitter: @Joshuahss
And giving up way less yards.
I know it can be argued (and agree) that yards don’t matter that much it is about the points but it just shows how dominant they were. Other teams couldn’t score OR move the ball against them.
Ravers 247 ypg, 60 ypg rushing
49ers 308 ypg, 77 ypg rushing
Joe, Jerry, Steve, and....Who is next?
I write a story every week on NN and I make mistakes in it all the time
Like I said, I thought it was an interesting post. It’s just when I saw that number it didn’t seem right. I wasn’t trying to attack you or be critical. Just point out where you made the mistake and move on. No big deal.
I wasn’t even saying this ment the 49ers defense was better. Like I wrote, the Ravens held teams to an average of only 10.3 points per game which is insanely low. And I even agree with the point you made. The 2000 Ravens defense was better but the 49ers have a bette offense this year. You can actually edit your story and correct the number if you want. Again, I wasn’t trying to attack you.
In the world of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
No I wasn't thinking any of that
I didn’t mean to have defensive sarcasm there, it was just fun sarcasm. I’m not worried about the mistake, I make them all the time. Next time I’ll make a different one. I don’t mind you pointing it out either, I appreciate it. I would have gone on forever thinking it was true. How much stupider would I look then? HaHa.
Thanks for the response and concern I thought I was being attacked. Sorry if my response sounded that way. With the new information, I am more about our defense is actually close to the prodution of the Ravens.
"When they pull the chains off, I’ll come back just as strong as when I left, if not better" - 52
It’s not really a terrible compliment to compare the Niners to the Ravens. It’s quite simply that they seem to win games in the same manner. They don’t rely on their QB to pull them out of a hole. Of course Smith’s numbers are going to be better. The league favors QBs today.
But yes, Trent Dilfer is a rough and unfortunate comparison, and may be the worst QB to ever play in-and win- a Super Bowl.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 6, 2012 7:13 AM PST reply actions
I'm more against the offensive comparisons
Clearly you don’t get mad when someone compares you to one of the best of all time.
"When they pull the chains off, I’ll come back just as strong as when I left, if not better" - 52
Right. But man, Dilfer was terrible and lucky. And then really just terrible again.
"Go check on the ribs!"
by TheAfghanTwilight on Jan 6, 2012 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
Baltimore's opponents in 2000
Gm 1: Balt16-Pittsburgh0…The Steelers ended up 9-7..but they had Kent Graham starting at the beginning of the year. The guy was terrible. 63.2 qb rating, 1/1 td/int, 44.6 comp% in his 5 games started. Shutout against a terrible offense.
1-0
Gm 2: Balt 39-Jacksonville36….a shootout against a very good Mark Brunell-led offense. They allowed 421 yrds of total offense but were able to capitalize on 4 Jax TOs. 36 PTS ALLOWED!!
2-0
Gm 3: Miami 19-Balt 6…Lost a slugfest between 2 very good defenses. Jay Feidler’s Dolphins were not an offensive powerhouse at all. Ended up with 258 yrds of offense which was enough to take the game.
2-1
Gm 4: Balt 37-Cincinatti 0…Another shutout of an atrocious offense. Scott Mitchell’s offense was 2nd to last in points scored for the season with 11.6/gm. They scored 7 or less points 8 times that season. 94 yards total offense for the Bengals this game.
3-1
Gm 5: Balt 12- Cleveland 0…The only offense worse then the Bengal’s was the Browns’(10.1/gm). They also scored 7 or less pts in games 8 times. 230 total yrds and 4 TOs in this game for the Browns.
4-1
Gm 6: Balt 15-Jacksonville 10….Again playing Mark Brunell’s offense. Again allowed the Jags to move the ball (348 yrds) but took away 6 TOs.
5-1
Gm 7: Washington 10-Balt 3…Another low scoring slugfest between poor offenses, and dominant defenses. Brad Johnson and Stephen Davis were able to do just enough to take the game from Balt.
5-2
Gm 8: Tennessee 14-Balt 6….Another low scoring slugfest between 2 dominant defenses. Steve Mcnair and Eddie George were able to do just enough to win this game. The Titans were aided by an pick-6 int to put the game out of reach against Balt.
5-3
Gm 9: Pittsburgh 9-Balt 6…..Another game between 2 dominant defenses and terrible offenses. Kordell Stewart to Hines Ward was the only TD scored in the game.
5-4
Gm 10: Balt 27- Cincinatti 7…Another beatdown of a terrible offense. The great Akili Smith was able to generate 174 yards of total offense this time.
6-4
Gm 11: Balt 24-Tennessee 23…A close game between 2 dominant defenses and the Titan’s middle of the pack offense. Steve Mcnair’s offense was again aided by a pick-6 int to keep the game close until the very end.
7-4
Gm 12: Balt 27-Dallas 0….Troy Aikmen’s last season as the Cowboy’s qb was a forgettable one. 4-7 as a starter, 7/14 td/int. Another dominant effort by Balt, keeping a staggering offense from scoring.
8-4
Gm 13: Balt 44-Cleveland 7….Playing against the worst offense in the NFL once again. Doug Pederson, and Spurgeon Wynn were the qbs for the Browns for this game and they generated a massive 112 yards of total offense. A complete dismantling by the Ravens.
9-4
Gm 14: Balt 24-San Diego 3…The great Ryan Leaf was playing qb for the Chargers this game. One of the worst qbs of all-time, on the road, rookie season, you can imagine what happened next. 5 TOs and 128 total yards.
10-4
Gm 15: Balt 13-Arizona 7….Another terrible offense for the Ravens to feast on. Jake Plummer’s offense were 3rd to last (13.1 pts/gm) in the nfl. 309 total offensive yards and 4 TOs brought the Ravens another win.
11-4
Gm 16: Balt 34-NYJets 20…Vinnie Testerverde’s Jet offense was a high yardage-middle of the pack scoring team. This held true in this game as well. They had 524 yards of total offense but their 6 TOs blew the game for them to allow the Ravens to take the game.
12-4
That whole season they only played 1 team in the top 10 in scoring(Jacksonville 8th). They played the worst team(Browns2x), 2nd worst team(Bengals2x), 3rd worst team(arizona), 6th worst(chargers), 8th worst(Redskins), and 9th worst(Cowboys).
There was a reason that team dominated. They were pretty awesome all by themselves, but I think they counted themselves lucky that they missed all the insanely awesome offenses of that year during the regular season.
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