Why I am Content With Our Receiving Corps
by SanFranciscoKnights on Feb 3, 2012 9:07 PM PST
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PrintA seemingly lopsided majority of 49ers fans consider the wide receiver position to be one in desperate need of an overhaul. Many support either the acquisition of a wide receiver in the first round of the draft, a big time signing via free agency, or both. My personal belief is that the 49ers should by and large stand pat with a core group of Crabtree, Williams, and Morgan (who would have to be re-signed). I would support the drafting of a WR, but only in a later round, say the 3rd or after. I think this core group of receivers is sufficient and can be dangerous because in 2012 all three will be healthy, still young, and improving.
All three WR I just mentioned dealt with injury this season. I think many fans have a negative opinion of the receiving corps in part due to the fact that they were never healthy and hitting on all cylinders at the same time.
I won't argue the fact that they underperformed this season to an extent. However, I feel that many people perceive things as they are at the time, instead of considering what the future can bring. When I look ahead, I see three players with the high potential and ceiling to by dynamic playmakers. I see three players in their early to mid 20s that will be healthy for the 2012 season. Most importantly, all three have displayed progression on the field, and I strongly believe that this progression will continue into next season.
I am all for upgrading every position on the roster. I would support a front office decision to supplement the group currently in place. I simply disagree with the popular notion that the 49ers have a depleted WR corps that desperately needs an injection of talent.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Niners Nation's writers or editors.
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I get your reasoning but I have to disagree
The the receiving corps (if Morgan is resigned) will be solid, and yes, it has potential, but it’s not good enough.
Firstly, you can’t count on them to stay healthy. This is football, and with the three of them coming off of a season in which they were injured, there is a good chance they could get injured again. Then if one of them is injured we are left with two decent threats at wide receiver, which is not good enough.
Secondly, the team has no wide receiver who is taller than 6"1 and can consistently play like a big receiver. Fades in the redzone is something we simply did not have.
For those two reasons I believe we should bring at least one guy in. Doesn’t have to be the biggest name out there, but the fact is this team is in dire need of a true playmaker at the receiver position.
by neder on Feb 4, 2012 2:05 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions
The Giants, who supposedly have an elite receiving corps, do not have a WR above 6'1 either.
You need a quarterback who can throw fades to the endzone in order to make those throws, and you need a playcaller who will actually call those plays. Again, I’m all for bringing in competition, but there are other teams without those kinds of players who still have an elite offense. Crabtree and Morgan are both 6’1 which is not small for a WR either.
"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Feb 4, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Hakeem Nicks is a great athlete with huge hands and a great jump
that can bring down balls in the redzone.
No WR on our team offers that. Crabtree was supposed to be a great RZ target coming in to the league, but he’s been nothing of the sort.
I don't recall Crabtree dropping many balls in the endzone this season.
I don’t think there were more than a few thrown his way and when they were, he hauled them in. Not many plays were called to throw into the endzone.
"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Feb 4, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
When did I talk about him dropping balls in the RZ?
He’s just not a good redzone target. Before this year he only caught 2 TD passes in the redzone.
He’s more successful running those motioned flat-routes out of the backfield for TDs than fade routes. He’s just not physical enough.
How do you know he isn't a good RZ target when they don't call plays to throw into the endzone or Alex doesn't see him?
I don’t think he got enough opportunities to either prove or disprove his worth as a redzone target. I remember at least 2-3 times this season where he was open in the endzone and Alex did not see him or didn’t pull the trigger.
"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Feb 4, 2012 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
crabtree is just not the player people thought
his biggest selling point in college was his YAC but now we know he doesn’t have the speed to really translate that into the nfl. He’s a good #2 but for number #1 wouldn’t you rather have a guy with that extra gear and awesome athleticism.
I also disaree.
It doesn’t hurt to add talent to an area of need. When I look at this team, nothing really sticks out as a weakness as much as the wrs. I like Kyle Williams but I cant see him being a starter. I’d like to see us get a free agent like Stevey Johnson or Bowe, and draft a guy like Stephan Hill in the 2nd or 3rd.
do you think a true #1 receiver is necissary?
and if so, who among our current receivers do you think can be a #1 receiver. I just don’t see any of our current guys filling that role.
Crabtree/Ginn
According to the people who would actually know about those type of things—-
The coaching staff.
"I put him up against any of the receivers in the league. I can attest to just how hard this man works every single day, and the people of San Francisco really need to appreciate that."
---Kyle Williams
What?
Where did I say anything about Peyton Manning???
Learn some reading comprehension while you’re still in middle school.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Yes. Those return TDs really prove his WR capability.
Are you done being ignorant?
by Odekerk on Feb 4, 2012 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
if ginn learned to catch and bulked up a bit.
He could be a #1
Thanks, I'm thinking the same thing
He’s certainly fast enough.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
For a guy that's supposed to be a burner,
he has an incredibly low career YPR. The most amount of TDs he’s ever caught is 2. He’s just not a good receiver and never will be at this point.
Again with the stats
What’s with you? Hasn’t someone else pointed out to you just how irrelevant NFL stats can be?
He’s just not a good receiver and never will be at this point.
Please, don’t make sweeping statements like this. It makes you look sophomoric.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
When stats back up what you've observed about a player,
they’re incredibly relevant.
You don’t even bother to look at stats, and from many of your comments, I wonder if you watch the games. Stats aren’t empirical, but they’re always there to be studied, used, and to draw inferences from.
You don’t have anything to back up your arguments aside from what you think, or what you think the coaches think. It makes you look like you don’t know what your’e talking about, and I think that’s evident to anyone who reads our exchanges.
might want to watch the personal attacks
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Is that a personal attack?
The mods didn’t think so. Neither did Fooch, and he responded to a post directly above this.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
ok, so I can call you conceited and juvenile?
got it
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
AGAIN,
Please read all the comments.
It will put it in context for you.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
sorry, I'll stop
feel free to go on attacking people
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
I have read them
and strangely enough, it doesn’t change the meaning of the word. Funny. How about you get over yourself and stop telling people to read all the comments any time you don’t have an appropriate response.
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
Ginn
I’m surprised he wasn’t used more in screens and other plays that provide him with some open field. I don’t think bulking up is a good idea, but I do think there are ways to better utilize his current skills.
by David Fucillo on Feb 4, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Well, if he continues to work on his catching and route running
He could be a dangerous threat.
Hope Alex and Ginn work on the long ball this off-season.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
"work on his catching and route running"
is not something you want to be saying about a WR heading into his 6th season.
We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.
"Inconsistent, inaccurate, and easily rattled"
is not something you want to be saying about a QB heading into his 6th season.
See how you can turn that around?
I fully expect Harbaugh and Co. to coach up their inconsistent players next season just as they did this season. Alex Smith and Ted Ginn included.
And they’ll have a full offseason to do it.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Alex still isn't great
and he’s still inconsistent. His decision-making is the only thing that really improved significantly this year. And even then, that level of improvement in a player’s 6th season or later is quite rare. Expecting it to happen again next year with a different player at another position is foolhardy.
Not to mention, catching and route-running are the probably the top two most fundamental skills a WR can have. I’m fine with Ginn as depth, but to suggest that he will suddenly blossom into a legit #1 WR, based on Alex Smith improving from “mediocre” to “solid” in one year, is an unreasonable expectation.
We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.
Maybe
But he sure was missed in the NFC Championship game as a return man and a receiver.
I just don’t think he’s reached his ceiling yet.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
I'm sure he has some room for improvement.
Most players do. I just don’t think anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt this far into their career.
If you don’t establish yourself as a reliable starter in your first 5 years, it’s hard to say the team shouldn’t be looking at other options.
We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.
I think Belichick, and to a certain extent Harbaugh, are changing that perception
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Walsh was the progenitor of this actually
If you find players that want it hard that can operate in your scheme effectively, you bring them up.
That said, I think Crabtree and Morgan are the WRs on our roster that have the most potential to be credible threats in the future. Ginn is a burner who runs inconsistent routes but catching the football isn’t something that can necessarily be taught in one’s 6th NFL season if it hasn’t manifested in last 5. DHB of the Raiders upped his catching level this season at a much younger age.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
he was missed as a return man
not as a receiver
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
Wow
I certainly saw a drop in offensive production without Ginn on the field, keeping the DB’s honest.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
do you have access to the game film?
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Ha, good one
Do you need game film to see 1-13 on third down?
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
How can you know without looking at the game film?
Stats don’t tell the whole story.
HOW CAN YOU KNOW WITHOUT GAME FILM?????
_
1-13 could be due to any number of reasons
how can you comment without having the game film? You don’t think any one else should
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
I could be wrong because I don't have the game film
But the stats suggest a noticeable drop off of offensive production.
lol
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
yes, but that only shows correlation
not causality. It could be due to any number of other factors such as the defense they were playing against.
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Even then he wouldn't be that great.
And he’ll never learn to catch at this point. Bulking up would take away some of his speed.
Crabtree I could see as having the potential to be a #1
Ginn isn’t even a #2. But at this point, Crabtree hasn’t shown that he can be a true #1.
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with some of your thoughts
because yes, there hasn’t been one game this year where the projected Top 3 (Edwards, Crabtree and Morgan) were all fully healthy and playing together, so we really couldn’t get a sense of how the team would perform. Think about it, if Ginn was healthy against the Giants, we wouldn’t even be talking about this right now, I for one would be in Indy getting ready to watch the Superbowl, and Ginn was really a projected number 4 on the roster. We played that game with our projected #2 and #5 receiver, and STILL should have won. With all that said, I think the Niners should still look for a true #1, resign Morgan and Ginn, and have a lineup of New #1, Crabs, Morgan, Ginn and Williams
a different QB will make them stop dropping catchable balls?
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think an out of context quote proves anything.
By the way, have you ever linked to the video or interview of where he said that?
Your google search engine not working?
Here you go:
He might have set the mark last Sunday night against 1-11 Cincinnati, but Young suffered his fourth concussion of the season, felt as though his head were in a vise and remembers only parts of the game. And that is the peculiarity of Rice’s career: he is ultimately only as good as his man under center.
“It all depends on the quarterback,” laughed Rice, who has memorized Montana’s phone number in Kansas City.
For six seasons, Montana and Rice were almost telepathic on the field. Not only were Montana’s passes as soft as pillows, but it was as if Rice had planted a listening device in Montana’s ear. Rice would run a precise route, turn around and find the ball in his breadbasket.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
You're using something he said 20+ years ago, laughingly as a factual statement?
God bless your soul.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Yeah, Jerry Rice doesn't know what he's talking about
lol
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
I can procure you countless incidents where Rice has no clue what he's saying in front of the media
I loved him to death as a player, but you’ve got to know better.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
You seem to want to discount what seems obvious to even casual fans of the game
Why is that?
Just because Jerry Rice said it doesn’t make it untrue.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
And just because he said it doesn't make it true.
Again, an out of context quote from an article nearly 20 years ago doesn’t prove anything.
That's more of Rice giving credit to his QB.
not saying that a receiver can’t produce without an elite QB.
Receivers do that every year.
So yes, I’d still say that’s out of context with the article.
Jerry
Well, it was no secret Jerry missed Joe’s passes and took awhile to warm up to Steve. But having said that, Jerry Rice was a great receiver because he could get open for anybody.
"Your curses do not compare to those of Houston fans or Detroit fans, and especially not to those of fans from the northside of Chicago. You are not Hamlet. You are Valerie Bertinelli. Your victim act is schlocky, and totally unconvincing. You fancy yourself tormented. You are merely insecure."
-- Scott Burton to Red Sox fans, 6/12/02
http://espn.go.com/magazine/burton_20020612.html
you're ignoring the part about him running a precise route
crabtree hasn’t been doing that
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
AGAIN,
Do you have access to the game film? You know the route tree?
How could you possibly know whether Crabtree runs precise routes or not?
One person says it, sounds good and everyone else repeats it like it’s the truth.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
In that case arguing is all irrelevant
I’ve seen him run sloppy routes on many occasions and, even though he’s improved drastically in that department over the regular season, it was still not up to par for him to gain proper separation. He’s been notorious (since college) for rounding off his routes.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
You followed his college career?
I think not.
You probably know nothing about Mike Leach’s Air Raid philosophy.
You will though. You will.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
so you're saying that any discussion of football is pointless then since we don't have access to the game film
You repeatedly reply with that. Do you have access to it either? I guess that makes all your observations irrelevant too.
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
Larry Fitzgerald disagrees
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
For me, the ideal WR corps for the 2012 season would consist of ...
1. Dwayne Bowe (free agent from KC)
2. Michael Crabtree
3. Joshua Morgan
4. Alshon Jeffery (draftee from South Carolina)
5. Kyle Williams
6. KR/PR and backup WR Ted Ginn
by 49erFanSince1950 on Feb 4, 2012 10:36 AM PST reply actions
I'll be surprised if they reserve 6 roster spots for WRs next year.
5 seems much more likely.
We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.
I like that list with one exception
I see no need for a big FA, Bowe, Colston, etc. Think we’d be just fine if we got Jeffery or even Sanu.
Disagree.
We have one of the worst receiving corps in the NFL and have since Terrell Owens left. None of these guys are #1 receivers and only get play time as such because that is what we have to work with.
Crabtree being #1 is out of necessity, not by choice.
I can understand this thought process as of two weeks ago.
But after a full offseason to get 100% healthy, work with the coaches and offense, you still see these three guys as one of the worst in the league? I see no reason as to why all three will not continue to progress as players.
"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Feb 4, 2012 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Crabtree is the only person that has a small chance of untapped potential
We know who Morgan and Ginn are. None of these guys are #1 WRs and have proven it with their undynamic play over the course of their respective careers.
The offseason doesn’t constantly make miracles. There’s even a chance this group of guys will end up playing worse next year. Nothing is guaranteed and assuming everyone just improves from one season to the next is a fallacious and dangerous way of thinking. This WR corp undoubtedly needs a proven playmaker or rookie that has the potential to be one.
Do you ever read what the coaches have to say?
Why do you think you know more than them?
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
If we always took coaches' words on everything
Every player would be a hard-working, good player, who has a lot to offer to the team.
Also, according to your logic, coaches are never wrong.
According to your logic, you know more than the coaches
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Sometimes I wonder.
Crabtree is the best WR on the team now though, so obviously we’re going to start him there.
If we sign a guy like Bowe in the offseason, does that mean the coaches were wrong in what they thought of Crabtree?
Your whole line of thinking is fundamentally flawed.
We signed Braylon Edwards last year
It seemed to make Crabtree better.
But this comment is telling:
Sometimes I wonder.
Don’t you have a science fair project to do or something?
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
"no u"
Sorry, had to :P
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Dude.
We don’t need to know that you had to P.
We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.
by these3words on Feb 4, 2012 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah you do.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
The only thing that gets Fooch gets more annoyed than cat pics
is the use of the word troll
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
I never called anyone a troll.
Big difference between the verb and the noun form of that word. It’s obvious 10fortech was trying to incite flames from me in this particular comment tree. Rather than attacking my arguments (like I was to him), he was attacking me personally.
Text-book case of “Insults are the last refuge of the out argued.”
C'mon, ode
What the hell are you talking about?
You started this. Now stop.
Just Stop.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Is that in this comment tree?
No, it isn’t. Either way, that is not a personal attack.
Guess I’ll be the bigger man and apologise if it came off like that anyway.
Now, you’ve still called me a troll and called me a nerd. You can either do the right thing so we can put this all behind us, or you can continue doing what you’re doing.
by Odekerk on Feb 5, 2012 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
good man Ode
just leave it be, we can all read the thread, we know what’s up.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
pretty sure he told both of you to stop
go back and read it man, you clearly started the whole thing by replying to Ode’s comment and then asked him if he had a science fair project to work on with a cute link. Like I said, we can all read the thread, keep trying to play the victim.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
how about everybody stops this
It’s all childish.
by David Fucillo on Feb 5, 2012 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Harbaugh quote:
"We spoke about that after Detroit because I really, really think Michael’s been playing great football, the last three weeks especially. He just keeps getting better and more comfortable, and his abilities are shining through. And his consummate team type of guy the way he’s blocked. The evidence of whatever the team needs him to do he’s willing to go do. He switched from his X position to Z this week on a week’s notice. And whatever I can do for the team was his approach and his answer when we asked him to do that. But, after Detroit I said, you know, ‘you played a heck of a game.’ Some of the catches he makes that were on the boundary, or eight-yard gains, or 13-yard gains to keep drives alive. That’s extraordinary catching ability that he has. And we watch him here in practice do the same thing. And his comment was well, ‘yeah but I haven’t scored a touchdown.’ So, that was important to him, and it was great to see him get the satisfaction of that touchdown pass because he does so much more for the team that doesn’t get talked about outside of our meeting room in terms of the way he blocks, and willingness to do what needs to be done. Catch the ball over the middle, some guys just refuse to do that. Not on our team, but Michael sets that example. Go in and make the tough catch, dig out the safety to make the tough block. And then make the fabulous catch, the long catch, and the separation that he got where we overthrew him, he’s doing a heck of a job."
But I’m sure Harbaugh made the whole thing up……
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
In all fairness
You never tell anyone outside the family the problems inside the family. Period.
You can’t rely on anything anyone says to the media because quite frankly they aren’t there to inform us — they are there to meet the league mandated media time and the sooner they can get through the moronic questions and get back to football the better.
Hence the long rambling answers that make every player seem like the second coming of Jerry Rice or in progress to it.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Exactly...
Coach isn’t gonna talk down his recievers even if he wasn’t satisfied w/ their play, or felt that that area could use an upgrade. What were we gonna do to improve that area during the season anyways. He had to work w/ the guys he had.
Our 2 TEs are more consistant down field threats than any of our WRs. Seems ridiculous to think that adding more talent to that position would hurt.
No one is advocating ridiculousness
I’m not arguing against strengthening our WR corps.
The WR position certainly could use some depth. I fully expect the 49ers to pick up at least 2 receivers in the later rounds of the draft, and at least one veteran/mentor type receiver through FA.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
This
Depth is critical. There is no way this team puts in KW as their number 2 receiver or Brett Swain as the number 3.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
I don't think you read the quote
I find it fascinating that anytime I point out that the coaches and players are saying good things about Crabtree, it’s almost always summarily dismissed.
I’m seeing what the coaches and players are seeing.
Maybe you aren’t.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
The coaches and players
Will say good things about anyone else in the organization whether it’s deserved or not. They will say good things about Moran Norris, they will say good things about Reggie Smith, they will say good things about Anthony Davis.
Again, they are not talking to inform you. They are saying what they have to say to get through a question and meet their mandatory media obligations.
That’s one thing to say about them, they aren’t going to hang someone out to dry that they have to work with day in and day out just to satisfy some jackwad reporters desire to stir up trouble.
So at least we aren’t the Jets.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Again, did you read the quote?
Harbaugh’s press conference transcripts are full of your standard ‘meeting his mandatory media obligation’ responses. This wasn’t one of them.
But hey, you’re entitled to your opinion. It’s just funny to me that I’ve had this discussion before about this very subject. There are things said about players all the time coming from coaches and teammates. At least some of it has to be the truth.
Some people are just going to believe what they want to believe, in spite of evidence to the contrary.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
That's exactly what I'm saying
This specific press conference sang the praises of your favorite player, and therefore you are more likely to believe that this is one of the honest answers instead of one of the BS answers.
I don’t know if it is or if it isn’t. I just know you can’t trust a thing they say so I generally ignore it and trust my own eyes on Sunday. If a player is showing something during the week that they can’t show on the field on Sunday — then that doesn’t help. You don’t get points for weekday play.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
And Harbaugh's quote just confirms what I'm seeing on the field
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Which is?
Not trying to berate you but I’m just curious as to what you (objectively) think about Crabtree.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
He's a team player
He does what’s asked of him, even if it means he’s not getting any of the glory. He blocks extremely well, and has a lot of hustle.
He’s incredibly athletic, and can make the hard catches (when they’re thrown to him).
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
I tend to agree on a lot of those points
But I also think he lacks concentration, fails to get adequate separation often on top corners, and runs inconsistent routes.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Where are you seeing that?
You have access to the game film?
Or maybe you just read it somewhere and repeated it.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
It's an objective analysis of what I've seen from him over the last 3 years
I saw marked improvement in his concentration and his hands over the course of the regular season but top-level separation and route-running are still question marks. He’s not someone who can burn DBs, so his most valuable asset in terms of getting open has to be pristine routes and he doesn’t often run them.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Not to mention the mental errors in the postseason
That happened to kill drives.
I’m willing to forgive for that though.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Crabtree dropped a few passes
Was not the difference in the game by any stretch.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
2/3 consecutive passes that him in the numbers in the drive
Could’ve started some sort of a rhythm. You and I will never know this. But we can only work off of what we objectively know and that he dropped easy passes.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
And this is relevant because...?
Jerry Rice dropping an easy pass doesn’t give Crabtree a pass for dropping easy passes. It has literally nothing to do with Michael Crabtree as a football player.
again with the Rice comparison?
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
Speculation and guesswork
You don’t know that any of that is true without the film. You’re just going to have to go on what his teammates and coaches are saying.
Oh wait.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Right
because his teammates and coaches would propagate his flaws via the media for the whole world to know what it already knows.
I’ve seen him play, I’ve seen him lack concentration and I’ve seen him get blanketed by top-level and even some mediocre corners. That isn’t fallacious.
I’ve also seen him make many positive contributions, e.g., difficult catches, superb run-blocking, and improved respect and maturity.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Your mind is made up, I get it
I trust Harbaugh’s professional opinion.
Sorry if I don’t trust yours.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
then why don't you like Alex Smith?
you trust Harbaughs professional opinion on Crabtree, it would be pretty hypocritical to not have the same line of thinking with Alex.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
I do
I admit I haven’t been kind to Alex, but I’ve softened my opinion of him.
I don’t think he’s Jesus like you do, but I like the direction he’s headed.
Thanks, Jim.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
that's big of you to admit
I don’t think Alex is Jesus, I like him and I’m content with him, but I accept that he isn’t and may never be an elite QB.
I just think after this season he’s shown enough to be afforded a chance to see where he can go.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
lol where did I say that?
I never said that? I like Crabtree a lot. He hasn’t been terribly consistent, but neither has the whole offense so I can’t fault him for that. I want him on this team, I don’t know why you think otherwise.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
Why don't bother disproving it?
He and many others have watched games and seen him display these qualities. A lot of times they’ll show the receivers downfield, and Crabtree is covered. You basically never see Crabtree burn a CB. Crabtree has problems getting off of jams. He drops balls that hit him dead in the hands. These are completely obvious to most that have seen him play and I’ve never seen you do one thing to disprove it other than wanting someone to link you to a youtube video that will never exist or saying that the coaches said they liked him one time, so all that stuff must be false.
I do apologize
Maybe it’s bias against you on my part, but I haven’t seen that much football analysis from you on other topics and you’ve made it pretty clear that you are in Crabtree’s corner no matter what.
So you aren’t exactly coming off as an objective observer that’s just calling it like he sees it, but rather a homer that refuses to believe his personal hero can be faulty.
So please excuse me if I don’t trust what you seem to be seeing on this topic.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
by Ougadas on Feb 5, 2012 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough
I think Crabtree has an incredible amount of upside. He’s not anywhere close to his ceiling. Why not?
I think the answer to that question is complicated. Much more complicated than just concentration or route running.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
You are 100% right here
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Thanks
I’d like to think I know a little more about Crab than the average Niner fan.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
ok, I'll bite
Why do you think that you know more about him than the average fan? Did you follow him in college? (not trying to be a smart ass, I actually want to know)
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
the obvious answer
he is Michael Crabtree
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
Every year I'm asking myself the question
What is it going to take to see the same guy that played at Texas Tech show up in a Niner uniform?
He’s nowhere close to his ceiling — I just worry that like many college players — he wound up in a bad system for his talents and then add on some injuries that were out of his control — and they never reach it.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
I can see that
But Harbaugh makes me absurdly optimistic about what he can become. He really showed some flashes this year and there’s little reason (except injury) that he can’t dramatically improve next year. I’m hoping he does anyway.
Yes, I know I’m a hopeless homer.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Vic Fangio is pretty blunt sometimes
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
I don't like to think of my coaching staff as being dishonest just so they can get through a press conference
I can seeing them withholding information as to not give other teams an advantage, but when it comes to personnel there’s no reason to make up bold face lies.
They are not politicians.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Dishonesty is one thing
Not letting too much as a strategical endeavor is another.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
exactly
I can see Harbaugh and Co. camouflaging the truth when it comes to strategy, but other than trying not to badmouth one of your players, there’s no reason to make things up about your personnel (injuries being the exception).
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
It's pretty obvious during his press conferences
that Harbaugh doesn’t like talking to the media that much. He likes to give away as little as possible.
you apparantly think you know more than the coaches about Alex Smith
pot calling the kettle black
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
Disagree
Morgan has much more untapped potential (if healthy) than Crabtree.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Unfortunately the people who actually make those decisions don't agree with you
Harbaugh and Co.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
huh?
How do you know they necessarily disagree with you? The offense was going to Morgan quite a bit before he got hurt. Of course, Crabtree was banged up early on, so not really sure you can make that statement in response to this particular comment.
by David Fucillo on Feb 4, 2012 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
I did post a lengthy quote from Harbaugh about Crabtree above
I’m sure you know how many times Habaugh, Greg Roman, Alex Smith and other teammates have praised Crabtree’s athleticism, teamwork, and work ethic.
There is substantial evidence that Crabtree’s coaches and teammates think he has an incredible amount of ‘untapped potential’.
Maybe I missed something but I just don’t see that much written or quoted about Morgan.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
not much being said...
That’s why we don’t really know that the “the people who actually make those decisions don’t agree with you”
by David Fucillo on Feb 4, 2012 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
There was actually a lot said about Crab
Morgan, not so much
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
my comment
Was that without much being said about Morgan (not Crabtree). You can infer what you want from comments about Crabtree. Not as easy with Morgan. Based on just Harbaugh comments the team likes him, but doesn’t mean the coaches think either player has more upside than the other.
by David Fucillo on Feb 5, 2012 12:16 AM PST up reply actions
When Morgan went don't,
didn’t Harbs make a point of saying that the time really wanted to bring him back and resigning him was a priority? If we are to trust that all that come out of Coaches mouth is absolute FACT, and never a statment to boost aplayers morale, than he must think very highly of Morgan.
Double standard
Coachspeak only applies to Crabtree but not to Morgan?
Ludicrous.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
You completely missed Mykamyke's point.
He’s saying if we are to believe what Harbaugh said as Crabtree as 100% fact, we have to look at what he thinks of Morgan too as 100% fact.
Harbaugh’s comments for both of them were that he thought very highly of them. How are we to know which one he thinks is better?
Please read all the comments
It will put it in context for you.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
maybe the coaching staff knows that morgan is more mature
and doesn’t need the constant praise in the media to keep him happy? Maybe not. The point is that we don’t know what the coaches actually think.
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
That might be true
But we know Harbaugh has said a lot more about Crabtree than Morgan in press conferences.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
well to be fair
Morgan missed most of the year, so it’s not like Harbs really had any reason to be talking him up. When he went down against the Bucs, I recall hearing plenty from the team and coaches about Morgan.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
Indeed. Reporters aren't going to ask about a receiver who's on IR.
They’re going to ask about the top 10 pick that’s currently playing.
Hey, don't get me wrong
I like Morgan a lot. I just don’t think he has more ceiling than Crab.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
I think I can agree with you on that
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
well there are a few crazy folks here
that want us to trade Crabs lol
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
I like them both and I agree that crabtree has a higher ceiling
but crabs has also under achieved whereas morgan has over achieved
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Right which is why they're going to re-sign Morgan and had nothing but praise for him
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
WR needs upgrade
Most NN agree because they’ve watched this team for years without many big catches or clutch receiving.
It might take one new guy, but most of us want two, which gives more chance that one of them is a keeper.
Still waiting for someone
to explain how Walker went 6 straight games w/o reception.
Good point.
Walker like Davis is a mismatch at TE. We should be using them like Gronk and Hernandez.
Josh Morgan
has shon an enormous amount of growth in 2011. I see him really workingack to respectability after being out of football for so long. He also has to get his legs back, and rehab the injury. With that being said, we absolutely need a WR. If we are ale to get Dwayne Bowe, I would still draft someone in round 1, maybe Mohamed Sanu, or Alshon Jeffrey. We MUST give our offense a great boost. Everything is clicking on our team except for our passing game. Our rushing game is good, with room fr improvement. Our 3rd dwn conversion, and redzone efficiecy would sky rocket with continuity A. Smith/G. Roman, and a serious WR corp. I think a line up like this would be dangerous…..
1. FA Dwayne Bowe,
2. M.Crabtree,
3. 1st rd. pick (Alson Jeffrey or Mohomed Sanu)
4. J. Morgan, = WR battle for 3 in training camp
5. K.Williams
6. Ted Gin
7.TE V.Davis
8. D. Walker
9. 6’6" 265 lbs TE wth hands Draft/FA ********
I would even be in favor of
Crabtree, Braylon Edwards (back healthy) and J.Morgan ( back healthy). Edwards was looking great until he got injured in the Dallas game, as was Morgan. They would all benefit from the same system opposed to bringing in a rookie, and a FA to get familiar with phase 2 of our system/G.Roman+WCO
Pretty sure Braylon won't ever want to come back to San Fran.
Seemed bitter on twitter when he got cut.
hard to argue that one
but he may not find many teams interested in him; but i think the jets need him back
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
I never knew the details of that Braylon situation
Always thought he was too hurt, and they just reached a mutual agreement to free up a roster spot for a health WR.
Especially considering how long it takes Alex to build 'chemistry' with his receivers
Would love to see a healthy Edwards back on the team.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
most people do not see or acknowledge the chemistry aspect with alex; this is the main reason why I think it will be almost pointless to draft high or bring in a expensive free agent. the wideouts alex has had more experience with would be better for alex.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
a lot of top QBs credit the time they've had with their receivers as the reason they have such good chemestry
it’s not unique to alex
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
The length of time required is unique
Who does Alex have ‘chemistry’ with besides VD?
And they’ve been playing together for how many years?
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
length of time
what receivers that have played for Smith now find themselves on other teams rosters?
Brandon Lloyd and he was traded after Smith’s rookie year.
Kind of hard to blame WR production on Smith when the WRs can’t produce anywhere.
Who's blaming WR production on Smith????
This conversation was not about blaming anyone for anything. It was about QB-WR chemistry.
Some 49er fans have noticed that Alex seems to take longer to build a repoire with his receivers than other QBs in the league. I think that’s a reasonable assessment.
You can disagree with that if you’d like, but don’t try starting a fight when there’s nothing to fight about.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
WHAT IS HE? # 15
1. GET HIM A QB TO GET HIM THE BALL SO HE CAN SHOW HIS SPEED 2. IS A GREAT RED ZONE OPTION. GREAT HANDS. BLOCKER. WORK ON HIS ROUTS 3.PLAYS HARD…….. GIVE HIM AND VERON AND MORGAN A GUN SLINGER BIG NUMBERS FROM ALL 3…..SO. NO ALEX ‘IM SCARED TO THROW 10 YDS’ SMITH NEXT YEAR LETS SEE WUT KAP CAN DO AND GO GET MACNABB TO BACK HIM UP
Funny you ... you do realize McNabb was cut and beat out by a Rookie and not One of the other 31 Teams choose to acquire him ( Right ) ...!!
acquire
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
funny you oh "boy"..!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mcnabb does suck and i heard was getting fat & out of shape; but no reason to say funny you.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Nice , I'm glad I can bring out the Two year old in you ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
funny you oh "boy"...!!!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
agree with everything except mcnabb
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
Offseason
I agree with your post – and from a team management perspective, i see the staff standing pat with the addition of a couple of mid to late round additions.
1. The team will have an offseason to install more of the offense. Chances are that Roman has not yet fleshed out the vertical element of the passing game, as evidenced by the few (pathetic) shots taken down field.
2. With this portion of the offense added, the staff will have a full evaluation of it’s personnel.
3. Going into the 2013 season, the Niners should be better situated for the FA season (lots of expiring contracts heading into this upcoming season) and can make WR a priority.
This offseason is really important for the team. Snyder’s gotta get signed, Rogers, Ginn, Morgan, Brooks…these are guys that helped get the team to the NFCCG in a surprising year 1 under harbaugh. With the FAIL that was Braylon Edwards- I’d be surprised to see the team overestimate the importance of a big name, big body receiver.
And Alex Smith…..another reason overpaying a big name receiver could be a tremendous risk. literally throwing good money after bad.
the offense really has been fully implemented. They threw everything at the players from day one and kept adding more and more.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Difficult but need to drop Crab
Mr Crab has not panned out lots of promise but no real results. EVEN if you dont take in to account the draft , pre season “injurys” he has earn the diva title with not backing it up on the field. Crab reminds me of another highly over paid bust JJ Stokes. I hope we resign Morgan and get a solid veteran ,along with a couple of draftees . Also I would support bringing back K williams This also may need to upgrade our QB Give Kap a chance with a solid pro back up
diva title
explain this. The only time this was ever mentioned was during an interview with the Browns where he said one thing wrong. That was three years ago. Don’t forget that he was mentored by Deion Sanders, may have influenced him on how to act to show he was confident.
Ok
My point is Crab held out on draft signing wanted top tier money. has he proved his actions on the field NO. Every training camp he has a injury (stubbed toe hangnail ect ect ) To date he has not lived up to his own hype. If you look at all the #1 recievers on each team how do you think he stacks up. If you owned a NFL team would you spent that much on Crab ?
Yes I would have given Crabtree the money he was given at the time.
His deal was fair for both sides. I don’t think his football field image is as Diva as his press image. Reporters tend to exagerate things without getting to know a person sometimes. Everyone who works with him says he’s a hard worker, even Mike Singletary, who tends to call people out in public who don’t work hard. I have no reason not to believe Crabtree is a hard worker. He has kept up with the progress this season just fine.
If he works hard and doesn’t complain, the Diva tag is unfounded.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
by Pat Willie on Feb 4, 2012 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
broken foot has nothing to do with a stubbed toe hangnail.
which one is the broken foot? (Hint: it is not the one on the left!)
Go look at his performance with a comparable qb on another team and go look at how much Crabtree is being paid!!!!! You are wrong again on both!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
oh my god
thanks for those pictures. Gonna look under my bed every night in fear of HH’s monster feet
your welcome
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 5, 2012 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
Did you need to put those pictures up...
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
yes, I did
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 5, 2012 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
your point would have been made better without them
because I probably would have read it instead of skipping past it
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
well, it seems you did not skip it as you replied……..
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 5, 2012 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
to your reply, not to the original comment
scrolled past it do I didn’t have to look at the disgusting pic
so cut the wideout that has been the most succesful wideout with alex smith!
brilliant idea!
What has he done to earn the “diva” title? please cite facts and not fiction.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
why would they cut Josh Morgan?
the wide out who was the most successful with alex smith
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I like to discuss facts and not fiction, please do not talk fiction.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 5, 2012 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
Alex has had a better passer rating with Josh Morgan than with any other WR
Fact, sorry if you don’t like the facts
and has had much fewer passing yards with Morgan
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 5, 2012 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Well that's due to Morgan being on IR most of this season.
Anyone have the Yards per Target stat to compare them?
and crabtree has had a few injuries in his nfl career............. Morgan has played more years than Crabs....
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 5, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
none of which changes the fact that Alex did better throwing to Morgan than Crabtree
I thought you wanted to deal with facts, not fiction
Has Morgan ever been injured besides this season?
I can’t remember if he has or not.
Also, hasn’t Crabtree been hurt the past 2 offseasons?
also, last year Morgan was fantastic at YAC
he was one of the better receivers in the league in YAC per catch
He has lots of potential
He needs another threat across him (maybe Morgan) that can help keep teams from blanketing him. He also needs to concentrate a lot more.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Strongly (but respectfully) disagree
You are right that we have three good recievers on our team. But we need three good recievers we can put on the field any play of the season. That means we need depth, and good recievers playing the depth position. If our best reciever is Crabtree, we are behind a lot of teams at the #1 reciever position already. I’m not saying he isn’t a very good reciever, who will probably break out next year, I’m saying we can improve at #1 and we should.
When we get into #2 and #3 we aren’t exactly looking at Jerome Simpson, Victor Cruz, or Jordy Nelson. I wish I could have seen what Josh Morgan was going to do this year, but the fact he was injured reinforces the need for depth. He is just as likely to get injured next year, and if he doesn’t, it couldn’t hurt to have the extra talent at the position.
When we look at Kyle Williams as our #3, we are way behind at this point. Sure when he gets his hands on the ball, he catches it and is capable of picking up a lot of yards. But we need a #3 that is always open because no safety or linebacker can cover him 1 on 1. #3 needs to be a guy that opens up #2 and #3 because you need 3 cornerbacks on the field to account for our recievers.
I hope Kyle bounces bad from his extreme misfortune. But he was only out there because we had no one else. He’s not prime time, he’s not a star. Not yet, and his road just got tougher.
That said, the tougher the road is for a man, the stronger he will be when he gets to his desination. That’s exactly the attitude Kyle needs to take out of this next season.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
Typo fix
I hope Kyle bouncesbadback from his extreme misfortune.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
I think he will.
But it’s up to Kyle. He has a lot of examples to follow, and if any team can give him redemption, it’s the Niners.
Who's got it better than Honey Badger? Honey Badger don't give a ....
V.Davis #'s were down, Crabz had an outstanding year considering
We were a run first team. Not to mention all th overthrows by A.Smith all year long. Underthrows too. Behind throws too. Crabz was great in my opinion. On a team who’s mantra is to pass as little as possible. 2012,0ffseason workouts+continuity+health+Smith’s confidence boost, and system awareness= more success.
Numbering WRs is a pointless endeavor. I’d rather just have a bunch of great WRs like Pittsburgh with Wallace, Brown, Ward (gag), etc. among which there is no clear superstar.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
I agree that we need depth. I'm sure they will bring in new blood to compete and supplement what we have.
I hope that this is all they do, however. I don’t support the notion that we need a bona fide #1 receiver with the complete package. I would rather keep the defense intact and go with the three players I mentioned at the top, while bringing in some new blood who can compete and have value to the team.
"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Feb 5, 2012 1:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Stats
last years reg season stats
Crab was ranked 25th in the NFL and 16Th in the NFC he had 72 receptions for 874 yrds and 4 TDs
VD had 67 rec 792 yrds and 6 tds
to compare those stats with another top reciever with a questionable QB
L Fitzgerald had 80 receptions 1411 yrds and 8 tds ranked 12 and 8 in the NFC
You didn't go easy on him, that's for sure.
Comparing any WR to Larry Fitzgerald is like comparing any woman to Selma Hayak. You’re setting the bar pretty high.
Crabtree can do better though, I think he will next season.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
by Pat Willie on Feb 4, 2012 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, I think his stats are pretty decent considering the conservative offense we ran all year
Not to mention his limited playing time early in the season.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Ok
so lets pair him up with a grade A Qb and see how he performs.
Ok I admitt that he didnt have any help this year
I still would like a true #1 reciever and Morgan then Crab
A lot of fans feel like you
I’m just not sure why.
His teammates and coaches think he’s very talented and a great, selfless team player.
Where does the dislike for Crab come from?
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
media and not having 1,500 yard season with a qb that only passes for 3,000 yards.
nothing factual to support it.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Except failing to do anything of meaning in the postseason
I know…you’ll say Alex is shit blah blah blah…start Kaep..whatever
Crabtree has the makings of a very gifted possession WR that can effectively rack up YAC and/or difficult catches on certain passing plays where he dominates. He’s no Jerry Rice in terms of how tremendously versatile Jerry was but he can be effective in a certain scheme (which the coaching staff puts him in). He’s a great run blocker and has got (occasionally) great hands. He’s a long strider so you don’t perceive him to be a burner but he’s pretty quick.
The problem is his lack of concentration and the inopportune drops which stall potential scoring drives. I’m certain that this is a rectifiable issue and that it will be addressed.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
That said
He still is not the greatest WR we could have on the field and we also seriously use depth to make sure Brett Freakin’ Swain is not starting for the team anytime soon.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
lack of patience
and I totally get that because he had not shown any fire until this year. He is ready
fair question
I think a lot of it is a carry over from the draft circus. I guess it rubbed me the wrong way??. Also its not participating in training camp (no more graphic photos).Also over the last 30 yrs I have watched some of the great WRs JR was known to train catching bricks running up hill work ethics
Maybe I should lighten up on crab and keep making excuses for average performance.
We do/did it for Alex Smith
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
what does number one mean? do you think coaches say hey we need number one or number two?
or are they like everyone else and use number one and number two when referencing what they just did or have to do in the bathroom?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
This
I hate numbering WRs. Assemble a cast of great ones and numbering becomes irrelevant.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
We need a guy that can bump everyone down the depth chart
to have a great cast of receivers. If Crabtree could be bumped down to the slot, I think he could be one of the best in the league at that position.
Competition is good, and will make this WR corps better
Agreed.
Crabtree getting bumped down? Not going to happen.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
If it comes to us signing one of those guys
like I hope we will, I’ll just let the outcome speak for itself.
So, you won't put your money where your mouth is?
That’s what I thought.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Fitz was only the # 8 ranked in the NFC I used him as he also didnt have the star QB or a great group of recievers
Don't let the numbers fool you.
Fitzgerald is the best reciever in the NFC. No one else comes close. If we had Larry Fitzgerald, we would be in the Super Bowl tomorrow and no one would question Alex Smith’s abilities. Heck, Alex wouldn’t even have to hit Fitzgerald on the numbers or the shoulder, Fitz will always come away with ball if it’s in his vicinity.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
Yeah, lol
And if we had Tom Brady we would be in the Super Bowl tomorrow and no one would question Michael Crabtree’s abilities. Heck, Crabtree wouldn’t even have to jump at balls thrown 10 yards over his head or watch passes hit him in the ankles, Brady almost always throws passes that the receiver can catch.
See how that works?
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Unless Brady is bringing his O-Line and his refs
Then I’d gladly have him.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
That has nothing to do with anything I'm talkinig about
Good job butting in with irrelevant comparisons.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
Irrelevant?
Look all I am saying is that Crab didnt produce this year in the regular season and was not a factor in the loss to the Giants. Yes we can blame alex we can blame not having help. It is just my opinion that crab is not a true # 1 If he was it would be fair to compair with any # 1 wr. Crab has not had a 1000 yrd season in the 3 yrs he has been here.
I do not want to get into a fight with you, but I am stating my opinion just as you are.
total yards are an opportunity stat.
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
Irrelevant was in response to 10forTech
Unless you are 10forTech I haven’t really said anything to far off your statements.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
Not really
Since I wasn’t saying anything against Crabtree. You were just butting into a conversation with irrrelevant comparisons.
Get off my comments with your nonsense.
"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that."
--Jerry Rice
C'mon pat
Stop making ridiculous comments if you don’t want ridiculous responses.
Yeah, and if we had God on our team we’d be in the super bowl and Alex Smith would be Jesus!
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
I feel like everything you post is either you being facetious,
or it’s based on a series of misunderstandings.
most of what I see are personal attack against people that don't agree that
Crabtree is the greatest human being and most amazing football player in the world.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
C'mon lou
I’m hated enough around here without you making things up.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
I'm not making things up unfortunately
all one needs to do is look at you profile page and look at your comments.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
Yeah, thanks
My comments speak for themselves. No need to color them with your jaded prospective.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
yeah all those "mindless" comments
speak for themselves…
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
Don't think this is necessary
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
I don't think calling people middle school nerds for having a different opinion is necessary
but I guess I’m in the minority on that one.
"Cruelty, It’s not giving another person what they want. That’s our mindset on defense, to go out and play with everything we have and not give the other team anything." -Patrick Willis
Seems like attacking a person instead of
what they’re saying is the way to go.
I don’t know why I’ve been bothering trying to put effort into and make informed posts then.
STOP
EVERYBODY. All of this is taking away from discussion and turning this thread into a joke.
by David Fucillo on Feb 5, 2012 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
Megatron is arguably better than Fitz.
If we could trade for one guy in the league, it would one of them.
Our passing game would go from below average to good with just one of those guys.
Megatron is the best in the legue
at getting away with pushing off the corner…
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
how many time was fitz passes to and how many times was crabs passes to?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 4, 2012 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
How can we know what we have at WR, with an offense or QB that makes the position irrelevant?
1. Kelechi Osemele, OT/G, Iowa State
2.Xavier Rhodes CB FSU/ Vinny Curry OLB/DE Marshall/ LaMichael James*, RB, Oregon
3. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR/PR, Georgia/ Alex Okafor*, DE, Texas
4. DeMarlo belcher WR Indiana
5. Casey Hayward, CB, Vanderbilt
6. Marvin Jones WR Cal
7.T.J. Barnes*, DT/NT, Georgia Tech
What?
1. Kelechi Osemele, OT/G, Iowa State
2.Xavier Rhodes CB FSU/ Vinny Curry OLB/DE Marshall/ LaMichael James*, RB, Oregon
3. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR/PR, Georgia/ Alex Okafor*, DE, Texas
4. DeMarlo belcher WR Indiana
5. Casey Hayward, CB, Vanderbilt
6. Marvin Jones WR Cal
7.T.J. Barnes*, DT/NT, Georgia Tech
Pretty sure he was pointing out how Baldwin
was an UDFA and produced a similar season to Crabtree on a Seahawks team that had a worse QB than we did.
baldwin made the most of his opportunities on a bad offense with a worse QB
crabtree had a lot of drops on catch able balls
by Andrew9erfan on Feb 5, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
he said
Doug Baldwin? Maybe.
you can owe me.
site decorum
Debt paid..!!
I am not an Alex hater, I'm an Alex apologist hater. Now you know. -Mr Moses
We Don't Know
That Morgan will ever be 100%, we’ll just have to wait and see. If the coaches were ‘content’ with Crabtree, Morgan, Williams and Ginn they never would have signed Edwards.
With all due respect, I’m happy you’re ‘content’ keeping the receivers we have and you are entitled to your opinion, but I think your reasoning is ‘contently’ flawed.
I don’t think the front office is ‘content’ with these receivers and if the front office isn’t then the coaching staff isn’t. I do know the fan base isn’t and as for me, I’m so far from ok with it that I’m not even in the same zip code!
Free agency and the draft are right around the corner — We’ll soon see who is ‘content’ with who.
they realized that they needed a legitimate threat in the red-zone
basically a hulking, big guy who could snatch the ball on top of DBs. Edwards was doing well pre-injury but after the injury he failed to get on par with the rest of the team.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Content is a bad word.
Never be content, especially if you’re running a professional sports team. I think the word I should have used is “confident”. Competition is always good, and I fully expect Baalke to bring in new blood at the position through the draft or FA. I just don’t want them to break the bank doing it. Basically I believe that Morgan/Crabtree/Williams can be a formidable group of WR for this team for years to come.
"I believe in you guys in the media. I believe that you will find a way to doubt this team. Just as long as what's written is written against us we'll be happy." - Jim Harbaugh
by SanFranciscoKnights on Feb 5, 2012 1:49 AM PST up reply actions
Ridiculousness
If the coaches were ‘content’ with Alex Smith they never would have signed Colin Kaepernick.
If the coaches were ‘content’ with Vernon Davis they never would have signed Konrad Reuland.
"It all depends on the quarterback."
---Jerry Rice
Whatever!! We still need a big Receiving target!!!
The Harbaugh system requires a big receiving target for this system to function as it should!!
Whether that big receiver is a WR or another TE (which would match his Stanford roster) but we need a BIG receiver. There are several big guys coming out in this draft so a WR or TE over 6’4" should be an easy score in the upcoming draft.
GO NINERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we need to either draft or sign a FA
Keep crabtree and morgan. Ginn stays because of his value on ST and Williams can compete for a spot down the depth chart. Hopefully we get someone better than what we have now, and hopefully our current players can step it up with a full off season in this offense.
Both
We need some real depth this season so we don’t look at the waiver wire in mid-October
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us"
Regardless of his fumbles Williams should be 3rd on the depth chart, far less targets than Crabs and almost as many points. Far down the depth chart my whatchamacallit.
1. Kelechi Osemele, OT/G, Iowa State
2.Xavier Rhodes CB FSU/ Vinny Curry OLB/DE Marshall/ LaMichael James*, RB, Oregon
3. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR/PR, Georgia/ Alex Okafor*, DE, Texas
4. DeMarlo belcher WR Indiana
5. Casey Hayward, CB, Vanderbilt
6. Marvin Jones WR Cal
7.T.J. Barnes*, DT/NT, Georgia Tech
Texans fan here
I’ve been lurking for a while but I felt like posting. After watching every single LSU game of this past season that I could find, I have no doubt in my mind that Reuben Randle would be a better fit for your team than almost anyone else. He has a 6’4" frame, runs a respectable 4.5 forty, and throws blocks with startling violence. As a fellow fan of a run-first offense, I know that aspect is among the most valuable trait of our receivers.
He won’t blow by people on the outside, but he can cut across the middle and make every single difficult catch, he can bring down red zone tosses with his large frame (which we all know was a lacking aspect of your team last season), and can set the edge against even the most imposing of DB’s. I know he didn’t put up the most stats last year, but when you are in an offense that only threw the ball 279 times all year (among the lowest in all of college football), and STILL put up over 900 yards and 8 TD’s with not just one, but two different below average QB’s, then that is damn impressive.
Ya’ll should really give him a look, because if you pass on him in round 1, we sure as hell won’t.
Old post here.
I’ll bring him up in the draft thread at some point.
We don't need 8 in the box. We have 52 in the box.
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