49ers 2012 Free Agency Review: Offensive Line
We've gone through breakdowns of the quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers and tight ends, so now it's time to focus on the rest of the offense - the up-and-down offensive line. Since these posts are mostly being done by different people, we're getting some different opinions. As it happens, I'm a bit happier with the offensive line than I think a lot of you are.
To recap, folks seem to be pretty happy with quarterback, running back and tight end. Can't say the same for wide receiver, but I'm interested to see how folks view the offensive line. We've got Joe Staley locked up for a good amount of time, while Mike Iupati and Anthony Davis are playing on rookie deals. Jonathan Goodwin is here for the time being, while guys like Mike Person and Daniel Kilgore are also on rookie contracts. Alex Boone is good to go, with a four-year extension this past season, as well.
Chilo Rachal and Adam Snyder, both of the 49ers' right guards, are listed as free agents. I know who the 49ers want to bring back, and I know it's obviously the same guy you good folks want to bring back. Big shocker there, right? After the jump, we'll take a look at the individual players and how they performed.
Joe Staley
I thought Staley started off the season rather poorly, relative to what I was expected. I know he worked hard in the offseason and I expected a much more calculated and mistake-free player. That's not what we got. We got a player who was more physical than in year's past, but one who still jumped too early, missed assignments and generally didn't look like a leader out there. I've actually always considered him to be underrated - he's more athletic than some say, and he's stronger than we generally give him credit for, and he showed that in the second half of the season. Staley was strong in the second half and he only wavered when, hilariously, Chilo Rachal came in on the right side of the line.
Mike Iupati
Iupati had some bad games this season, which is about on par with his rookie campaign. You can probably blame that on the fact that he still has not had a full offseason to improve since his rookie year. That being said, Iupati was a mauler most of the time. While I'm against "beast" and "mauler" and things of that nature most of the time, it really does fit Iupati in a big way. I'm always struck by just how quick he is and how well he moves in space. For a negative, he still made plenty of mental errors and does have a ways to go to become the guard we all know he can be.
Jonathan Goodwin
Goodwin was easily the most disappointing player through the first three or four games, and even had me going as so far as to say it was a wasted signing. As it happens, he just really needed some time to grow into the scheme, because Goodwin was possibly the best player on the line by the end of the season. He blocked well in the run game and he was solid in pass protection. I don't know that he has a bunch of those kinds of years left in him, but for now, the 49ers can concentrate on improving other positions on the line.
Adam Snyder
I've been a big fan of Snyder for years and I might be a bit biased, but he has finally found his spot at right guard. If you ask me, it's not a position that needs immediate upgrade, because he played extremely well this season. He's not the most physically gifted lineman out there, but he's intelligent and consistent. He makes blocks on the move very well, but does struggle with full-on bullrushes. Still, he's a rock for now, and the 49ers don't have to rush, say, another rookie into the position, in my opinion. San Francisco should re-sign him.
Anthony Davis
Ah, Anthony Davis ... if not for Rachal, Davis might get a lot more flack than he does. As it stands, he's ridiculously inconsistent, on a game-by-game basis. Davis doesn't get beat once a game, he gets beat for entire games. Which means he also holds steady for the duration of some games. That's his biggest issue, it's either a high high or a low low. Jason Babin could abuse him 10 times in one outing, or he'll sit there like a rock and toss away pass-rushers like it's nothing. He's still very young, but he's still got a long way to go. Given his inability to get back on the horse after being beat once, it's likely all mental.
Alex Boone
Boone is hard to gauge because he's played such limited time. There are folks on here who absolutely love him and think he's a tackle of the future, and while I'm a huge fan of the guy, when it comes to rating his skills, I'm taking a skeptical approach. He was solid when he filled in, and since it was such limited time, there's not much more that can be said. He's a big, physical presence that will toss a guy around here and there, but we don't know if he's consistent or mentally tough. At any rate, it's hard to argue against him being extended for the four years he was this past season. A very solid backup, at the very least.
Chilo Rachal
Oh, Chilo. You are just ... just not very good, really. He's a dominating blocker in the run game when he actually collides with the guy he's supposed to, and sometimes he's able to throw himself in the way of a pass-rusher, but as it stands, he's a bundle of missed assignments and that's a big problem. I will say that when he came in near the end of the season for some fill-in duty, he played well. Probably not well enough to erase his past issues, however, and he may walk in free agency.
Daniel Kilgore
Kilgore remains a guy with decent potential as a backup guard but it's hard to see him doing much more than that. There's really nothing to go on here.
Mike Person
He was inactive all season and, while he's listed as an offensive tackle, he'll do anything he can to show the 49ers he can be a versatile backup to make the roster next season.
Remains a favorite of the coaching staff, will stick around as long as the 49ers can get away without putting him on the roster. There's a chance he makes it next season, but he'll need to show something in the preseason.
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It's not a big priority
We probably need better backups, but our starters are okay. Hopefully Kilgore can step up or something, but we will probably need to draft a backup in the later rounds.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I gif stuff
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln
It's a rich draft
For interior linemen. I don’t think Snyder is a long-term solution, and as mentioned, Goodwin isn’t young. I think this would be a phenomenal draft for a value pick in the second round for a center/guard.
I also suspect Kilgore will play on Sundays next year.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Feb 6, 2012 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Re-sign Snyder, relegate him to backup duty
Determine if Kilgore can start in 2012, if not go find a big name in free agency. Draft a center who can play guard. Done.
by asmithisaverage on Feb 6, 2012 12:08 PM PST reply actions
We agree pretty strongly here
Except if we get a RT that can actually pass block we can move Davis to RG. So we have a ton of options. But we need to upgrade RG/RT and get a successor at center.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 6, 2012 3:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Really think so?
I don’t know if he’d find a starting job elsewhere.
I guess it’s a possibility he could.
3
Snyder coming back is a must regardless of what our plans are for the draft. We could certainly use help through the draft to find a guy who could start permanantly at RG or an upgrade at RT to move Davis inside. Either way, barring some monumental slide in the 1st round by a premier O lineman, I think our starting OL for 2012 is going to look the same as it did in 2011. Person and Kilgore will likely compete with a new draft choice or two and some others who were signed in recent weeks to be camp bodies.
We can essentially rule out any chance of us going after Nicks in FA.
We have Iupati
It’s fine, we don’t need two great guards.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I gif stuff
Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln
by doubleteapot on Feb 6, 2012 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Really too bad we have 3 first round picks and a second rounder on the line and it’s still a weak spot for the team. Kind of indicative of why we’ve been so bad for almost a decade
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Feb 6, 2012 12:26 PM PST reply actions
Well it isn't any different than the other positions
Let’s take a quick look:
Guys who performed at their draft position:
- VD for the most part has earned his draft position (touch and go for a time)
- Iupati is making the case despite being a guard
- Aldon Smith was immensely valuable this year
- Patrick Willis was well worth it
- Manny Lawson (no longer on team but arguably played well in the wrong system for him)
Guys who way out performed their draft position:
- Frank Gore – 3rd round
- Bowman – incredible value in the third round
- Bruce Miller – looks great for a 7th round pick who changed positions
- Ray McDonald – third round value stepping it up
- Tarell Brown – got more than fifth round value this year though development took a long time
Question marks:
- Anthony Davis (inching towards being a bust)
- Joe Staley (likeable but not dominate for #28 overall)
- Parys Haralson (one good year…)
- Michael Robinson (bad except for outstanding special teams play)
- Reggie Smith (likely a bust this time next year)
Busts based on draft position:
- Alex Smith
- Chilo Rachal
- Taylor Mays
- Glenn Coffee
- Kentwan Balmer
- Jason Hill
- Brandon Williams
Conclusion:
About 50/50 on our top draft picks over the last five years.
by asmithisaverage on Feb 6, 2012 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
I agree Anthony Davis is question mark
Inching towards bust looks like a great statement in a vacuum until you start comparing him with the other 1st Rnd OT picks in the last 3-4 years. He is square in the middle with several OTs already being flat out busts.
Well Said......
And it really bothers me the O.L. just cant pass protect.
Agent Dunham....Walternate testified that in his universe, AleX Smith is a pro-bowl QB for the Saints, and broke Trent Dilfer's season record of 6000 yards passing. Walter....Thats nice, more LSD please.
They can’t pass protect because their maulers, run blockers that’s what single wanted when he was head coach and in control. At least that’s my opinion, what I believe.
by bmcrae83@yahoo.com on Feb 6, 2012 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
That’s supposed to be that’s what singletary wanted
by bmcrae83@yahoo.com on Feb 6, 2012 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
He drafted 2 out of 5, how can he be the blame?
I am not an Alex hater, I'm an Alex apologist hater. Now you know. -Mr Moses
jason hill has performed to his draft spot just not on the niners because they never played him
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
Times have changed
Every team is now spending 1st Rnd picks on OTs they hope can start and just play.
Isaaac Sopaoga
Should be added to this list since he was on the OL every once a while.
Or was he lined up as a FB? Either way, he should be counted somewhere on the offense!
We still believe!!
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Niners OL
Chase Beeler will be the Niners Center of the Future.
He needs to bulk up some, but he was an All-American at Stanford.
Half of Stanford’s 315 offensive plays were on Beeler’s wrist. He’s smart, agile, and wants to win.
Goodwin is fine for now, but Beeler is another Stanford sleeper, just like Eric Heitmann was.
We'll have to see what he comes in at this year
But last year he was at 285, and we run power football. On this line he needs to be 310 minimum but I don’t see him putting it on that frame. He may be a guy that the coaches keep on the PS because he does good work there, not because they want to move him up. If we switch to a ZBS and a more wide open power attack, Beeler has a chance.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
He doesn't need to get that big.
Mark Stepnoski was on the cowboys power line and weighed 280. Kevin Mawae mostly ayed in power schemes and weighed 290. Cast Wiegmann is 285.
by hammystyle on Feb 6, 2012 3:26 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So how long did it take you to find
3 guys in the last 2 decades who were able to play center at that weight?
Many more than that tried and didn’t cut it. There is a reason there are minimum measurables for positions. If a guy has top flight talent, you bend them, but if he doesn’t he has to measure up.
The reason is that if you have a center that can block a nose tackle or 1 tech DT straight up it frees you to do so many things on the line — like pulling your guards out in front of a Power O or Counter — that thing that made our running game successful this year.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
2 minutes?
There’s plenty of centers at that weight. I was just focusing on guys who primarily played in “power-blocking schemes”. Tom Nalen was 286 for the Broncos for 14 years. Olin Kreutz was 292 for the Bears. Chris Dalman was 287. Nick Mangold is 295. Jeff Saturday is 292.
That’s pretty much the dean’s list for centers over the last 15-20.
So I’ll stick with the idea that it is not vitally important Beeler get to 310. An athletic and strong 290 will work out fine.
You were focusing on guys in power blocking schemes
Because those are the only guys I was talking about. So you can stop listing guys who played their entire careers in zone blocking schemes and pure passing attacks — they aren’t relevant. You want those guys on the smaller side.
Further, you are listing entry weights. You spend 14 years in a professional football level strength and conditioning program you are going to put on some weight.
For example, Nick Mangold is not 295, he is 307 and gaining. He was listed at 295 at Ohio State and that’s the weight many data collectors still have on him. But he put on weight before the NFL combine, showed up there at 300, and has since put more mass on his frame.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Fine
Only focus on Kevin Mawae and Olin Kreutz. Two guys who played in power blocking schemes at less than 300 lbs and were the two “centers of the decade” for the 2000’s.
It’s not that important.
by hammystyle on Feb 7, 2012 10:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yes I concede
If you are a center talent that comes along maybe twice in a decade, you can be a center in a power blocking scheme at less than 300 pounds.
Now — how does this in any way matter to a guy that didn’t even have enough talent to get drafted?
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
We will find out if he is talented enough
My point is that sticking an arbritrary 310 weight requirement on him is foolish and ignores that many centers have succeeded at less. Including the two very best centers of the last decade.
by hammystyle on Feb 7, 2012 1:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's not foolish when you like to pull your guards
and your bread and butter is the Power O.
If that is what we truly want to do offensively — and it’s the only thing we did with anything resembling consistent success — then there are two kinds of centers.
Centers who need help from the playside guard.
Centers who don’t need help from the playside guard, giving you a free seal on an inside linebacker and giving you +1 at the point of attack.
If you can’t be excellent at your bread and butter you should probably switch to crackers.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
^^ So arbitrary.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Nick Mangold is not 295.
He might have been at the combine. But not anymore
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 7, 2012 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
he will probably not even make the practice squad next year.
he better hope that new orleans or rams pick him up
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
Adam Snyder did not play "extremely well" this season.
I’m sorry, but he didn’t even play well. He was average at the extreme best, pretty bad at worst. Our right side of the line was a complete mess this year, and has been for at least the past 2-3 years.
The whole line was is the bottom half of the league rushing yards per attempt (with having more success running to the left side of the line), and bottom 10 in sacks and QB hits. We were bottom half in rushing yards per attempt and bottom 10 in sacks and QB hits last year as well.
Our line is the main reason our offense is so unimpressive. We can’t get push on 3rd and short conversions or in the redzone, and we can’t offer consistent protection on obvious passing downs (or any other down for that matter). Overall, all this makes them one of the worse o-lines in the league the past 2 years, with no significant improvement from 2010 to 2011.
Man we need an edit feature. Used to posting where there is one available.
Don’t proofread like I should.
should be:
“The whole line was in the bottom half of the league in rushing yards per attempt……”
Also, I wouldn’t mind resigning Snyder since he is such a versatile backup and a team veteran, but he has no business being a starter.
Disagree, simple as that.
The right side was battered when Davis was beaten soundly. Snyder played extremely well, in my opinion. It’s not as simple as “the right side” when players have individual assignments.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
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Most of the pressure came from the right side and we didn't have much
success running to the right side. Simple as that. You can think what you want about PFF, but it has Snyder graded as the worst free agent guards, and one of the worst free agent offensive linemen overall. Synder just has no business starting for us. There are worse guards out there and he’s a good and valuable back-up, but if he’s out there next year starting, we’re probably looking at another year of bad o-line play that ranks in the bottom of the league.
It’s not as simple as that when Anthony Davis is doing so poorly a good portion of the time.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
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Snyder works with Goodwin much more than Davis. That’s by design .. running backs, tight ends, etc are supposed to help the right side.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
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Davis did good on runs.. but not so on passes.. Snyder was better on Passing plays but not on the runs
I like the idea of moving Davis to RG and getting a new RT, possibly one of Kilgore, Persons or Boone.
This year the OL will have the entire offseason to learn together.. they didn’t have that this last year.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
They had him as a "secret superstar"
last year, never called him best in the league. Of course you, I, and every 49er fan disagreed. PFF isn’t always right, no one and no site that does that type of analysis is.
And they had him graded badly this year. I also happen to agree with them on Snyder. There’s a reason I said to think what you want of them. Their rankings are terrible a lot of times, but their grades and what they think of players is usually right, a lot of times dead on. They were championing Justin Smith before a lot of 49er fans even cared about him.
If you took the time to read the article
They called him the one of the best linemen in the league in the run game.
They also pointed out his vast shortcomings in pass protection.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
And what about his vast shortcomings when the run game is concerned?
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
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Can't follow you there
Blowing holes open on the line was the only thing he did well.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
When he was able to hit a guy. He missed half the time.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
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This is true
He did tend to get shedded very quickly
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 7, 2012 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
There were things Snyder did well
By the end of the year he worked well with Goodwin to pass his man off and go help Davis and he did well pulling and being the kick-out man on the Power O to the left side.
What he did not do well was create any push whatsoever when we just needed to line up and pound out 2 yards. I can’t really fault him too much for that — he is essentially a backup tackle that got pressed into service as guard. But that doesn’t mean I want him to start next year.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
I definitely want him to start next season.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Exactly. And the fact that he's starting over Chilo
With how badly he grades out is extremely damning of Chilo.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 6, 2012 3:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Can't do nothing till we fix the line
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
I don't think Snyder was bad
He was a huge upgrade over Rachel and at least made the O line competent, although it was still inconsistent. But you’re right not being able to get any push. Snyder kinda sucks at straight ahead run blocking.
we don't necessarily have to go out and get anybody
if we move Davis inside and then have either Boone or Person to take his place @ RT…the line (@ least on that side) has potential to show marked improvement next season
Not a bad idea
But then you need depth, and for that, you have to draft and possibly acquire a free agent or two.
I think this coming year, Davis either makes the leap, or kicks inside to be a 10 year all-pro at guard. No one has seen enough of Boone in games to know for sure, but I think he’s got a lot of ability, and bodes well.
It’s a rich draft for interior linemen- let’s grab at least one, early on.
"Football combines the two worst things about America: It is violence punctuated by committee meetings" -George Will
by lottwasgangsta on Feb 6, 2012 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Chase Beeler the eventual C, Move Davis to RG Derek Hall in at RT. Like I said on another post Beeler was the starting C and Hall the starting RT for a Stamford Cardinal team that only gave up 4 sacks all season. Hard to see how Hall could be any worse than Davis.
by bmcrae83@yahoo.com on Feb 6, 2012 1:34 PM PST reply actions
If this season proved nothing else
It’s that schemes that work in the PAC38 do not work that well in the NFL. This is where the big boys play.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
I thought it proved they worked amazingly well
by hammystyle on Feb 6, 2012 3:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Errr, ok
One of the worst in the league in power football, one of the worst in the league converting third downs, one of the worst in the league turning red zones into touchdowns.
By what metric did this offense perform amazingly well? Riding the coat tails of the defense and special teams to 13-3?
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Lol, team wins the game and fans forget what took place
Is that what homerism does
I am not an Alex hater, I'm an Alex apologist hater. Now you know. -Mr Moses
If ? I were a GM I wouldn’t hesitate to draft an offense linemen in the first round. If ? there’s 1 there worth taking you take him. The game of football starts in the trenches I always thought. I’d build my team from the inside out, start with both lines. That’s how I would build a team but that’s me.
by bmcrae83@yahoo.com on Feb 6, 2012 1:49 PM PST reply actions
****in your opinion******
also on the onion news network.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
The play and statistics of our offensive line prove how bad it is.
Same for the d-line proving how good it is.
Our offensive line is objectively bad. Deal with it. Hope we improve it.
no, in your opinion.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
It's the opinion of a lot of people.
I’d actually say it’s the opinion of the majority of people.
Why don’t you post some statistics or relevant information that proves our offensive line isn’t bad?
stop asking for stats and other factual material; I have posted plenty in other posts and you had nothing to respond to it! You post your factual opinion first!
Maybe next year Joe Staley will take you to the pro bowl!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
He was good but he wasn't that good.
And the RG/RT combo is regarded as the worst in the league by many.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 6, 2012 3:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Where have you posted anything relevant or factual in this thread?
All you’ve done is mostly make hyperbolic jabs at me.
I thought Anthony Davis was reasonably consistent in the second half of the season
He settled down once Snyder replaced Rachal. Picking his second game on the road against a top-three pass rusher (while adjusting to a new scheme and a new coach) as an example of his shortcomings seems a little harsh. I believe Davis will show significant improvement after a summer of off-season work.
Sorry, but I didn't see the consistency you saw.
From Davis in the 2nd half. Sure that Ravens game was a low point, but it’s a prime example of his main fault (freezes against the blitz) that he hasn’t gotten anywhere close to correcting.
Going by Matt Maiocco's analysis
Davis had “solid” or “strong” showing in all the games in the second half of the season except that against the DPOY Suggs (who also had success against Staley) and two lapses against Chris Long. Davis did very well against Lamarr Woodley and Justin Tuck.
Here are the links:
Rams: home
(Can’t find the away game link).
And, oh by the way, Davis did fine against the Saints’ blitzes in the play-offs.
Interesting how we remember Davis’s shortcomings against Babin, Woodley and Long, but forget his good performances. O line play is never perfect. Even Joe Thomas permits sacks. Chris Snee was owned by Justin Smith but he did fine against the Pats line in the Super Bowl. Nobody complains when the team wins, I guess
stop saying that, people do not like facts when it comes to oline play or alex smith! lol
the knock on years past has always been on joe staley, now he made the pro-bowl the same people jump on anthony davis.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
and you have an obsession with me, good thing you do not know my address or phone number!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
I respect Maiocco's opinion, but it's hardly empirical evidence.
Saying someone played well then giving 1 play as an example doesn’t mean much. PFF grades every play and has been vocal enough about Davis playing poorly the past 2 years. They did agree with you that he came on a bit at the end of the year, so maybe I was being a bit too critical of him. He definitely needs to improve this year or needs to be replaced, however.
Also, our line still gave up 4 sacks overall to one of thew worst pass rushing teams in football (Saints), so I wouldn’t hold that up as a bastion of good line play.
And good lord don’t even think of comparing Anthony Davis to Joe Thomas. That’s fire and water right there.
given a choie between yours (or even my TV-viewed) opinion, I'd take Maiocco's any day
I don’t want to get into a prolonged pointless argument about who is more responsible for the sacks, the O Lineman, or the QB or the receivers who forced the QB to hold on to the ball too long. Niners FO and coaches will decide about Davis. I assert that Davis will start next season and will keep improving.
I just said I was being too critical of him.
Conceded your point, basically. Still doesn’t mean Maiocco’s analysis (or anyone’s) is the end-all-be-all of the story, like you said. I still think more often than not he’s a detriment to what we’re trying to do on offense.
I don’t think anyone thinks Davis won’t be starting again next year either. I hope you’re right and he keeps improving. We’ll see though.
He was consistent in that there were fewer bad games, but when he plays poorly, he plays poorly for the full game.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Disagree
In the Rams game at home, Davis had a couple of lapses against Long resulting in sacks, but played well other than those.
Shouldn't count only sacks against as protection failures.
So many times Davis has been beat this year and Alex got out of the sack that would have counted against him and either got dragged down as he scrambled forward or ended up getting sacked by another defender.
And many more times he’s been beaten so bad that it forced Alex off his primary read. How many of those times it was well open I can’t say.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Agree, Alex doesn't have great pocket presence, but
he avoided many sacks this year with his legs and has kept improving over the last 2 seasons at avoiding them.
Sacks are not the only indication of poor play.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
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oline sucks and is the reason for all misery cut them all especially joe staley and anthony davis!
trade everything and anything for first round picks for five new oline!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
twisting words, that is spot on for you. and what about responding with nothing factual or responsive!
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
what analysis?
kerk talks about analysis but has none except oline sucks and alex smith is awesome.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Those statistics I posted were entirely factual.
You on the other hand, have posted nothing relevant or thought-provoking.
you posted nothing factual and have not responded with any facts to disprove anything that I post. you asked last time and posted nothing in respons and yet you claim you did. just give it up
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Feb 6, 2012 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, cut our Pro Bowler Joe Staley
and replace him with who exactly?
Armchair GM’ing at its finest.
You guys are crazy
Our O-line is bad at some things but not bad at a lot of things. Staley played phenomenal…or don’t you think he deserves the Pro Bowl selection?
Snyder stabilized the line and played good but yes, if there is an upgrade out there then his spot is most likely to be improved.
Anthony Davis did well in my opinion. I think he really advanced in his second season and I love how he has a nasty streak. How many near fights did the guy have this year?
Iuapti is good but I think he still doesn’t get enough push on run plays from the snap. He does well when he has a step of momentum but from a standstill he needs to be more explosive. I don’t get why he is pushed so far back in Pass Protection…a guy his size should not be.
Goodwin was a great Center this year and a solid free-agent pickup. Pro Bowler last year too. If he wasn’t good then how on earth did we make it thru to the NFCCG???
I think the main pickup is in the interior and I hope we sign Carl Nicks. That guy is a force and would really upgrade things at RT.
Agree with pretty much everything except Nicks
I don’t think that Niners will pay big money for a guard that Nicks will command. They may resign Snyder and bring up kilgore or a draft pick. Difficult to predict since it’s not an area of real need,
A line that ranked in the
bottom half of the league rushing yards per attempt (with having more success running to the left side of the line), and bottom 10 in sacks and QB hits the past 2 years is definitely not, good, playing well, or average. That is below average play at the very best that MUST be improved. A better o-line would make it so much easier on our RBs, QB, and WRs. Bigger holes to run through, more time to pass, more time to get open, etc.
And no, Staley did not deserve that Pro Bowl. He’s a nice LT, but his season was not Pro Bowl worthy. Citing Pro Bowls like they mean anything is silly. Everyone knows how much of a popularity contest the Pro Bowl is these days.
Saying we couldn’t make the NFCC without Goodwin playing well is fallacious. Also, he made the Pro Bowl 2 years ago, and even Saints fans will tell you he was mostly a product of their excellent guard play. He impressed me this year though by not being a detriment most of the time though.
In a lot of ways, we made it in spite of our offensive line play. It could definitely be argued it was the worst unit on the team.
jeez
you probably would have criticized the entire O-line thru the 80’s and 90’s with that outlook. Those guys were always undersized when compared to the rest of the league then which is why Bob McKittrick literally invented the Zone and Cut-blocking system that the league knows today.
But I guess you’re right…on everything. That Staley guy deserves nothing, strip the accolades from his season and the fact that he sold out big to get Alex in the end zone in the NO game. And Goodwin, send him to Siberia…his crime of calling the protections and blitz orientations demands that he be exiled.
Yes the O-line needs to improve but how much is talent, how much is coaching, how much is development, etc.?
Football is the ultimate team sport so the O-line has had it worse when the other parts of the offense haven’t clicked.
I think once we get Kaepernick in there with that CANNON of an arm then all of a sudden you’ll see a much improved O-line simply because D’s have to respect a QB who can throw. Alex can throw too but he needs more to happen on a play before he’s comfortable throwing…the nature of who he is and how he does it.
Things need changing but not as drastic as you might think.
Staley allowed 6 sacks in the first half of the season
His second half was great but that’s too many to be a pro bowl deserving year. There are guys that give up 1 or in an entire year that got snubbed for Staley to go.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 6, 2012 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
RE: YPC
They faced a ton of 8 man fronts this season, 2nd most in the league I believe. Bottom line is they had an effective running game despite this.
lol worst unit on the team. They were the best unit on offense unless TE’s count as their own.
His name is Ydwin, your argument is invalid.
by microwave donut on Feb 7, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
LOL @ best unit on offense
The left side was good. The right side was not NFL caliber
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 7, 2012 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Only 3 teams in the league were worse
At converting 3rd and 2 or less on the ground, 4th and 2 or less on the ground, or any down and 2 yards or less to goal on the ground.
If you can’t run the football when you need to run the football and you want to be a power running team — you are a bad unit.
There may be players on this bad unit that could be an integral part of a good unit, but there are definitely players on this bad unit that would weaken any good unit to the point where it would no longer be so.
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
3
They were competitive most of the season, won some and lost some. Has the potential to reach 4 next season, possibly the right RG signing could make them a 5. Well that is not entirely true … until the 49ers get better players at the skill positions defenses will continue to stack the box and blitz cause the 49ers don’t present enough on in the passing games to scare teams to stay spread out.
4
The OL will make the biggest leap of anyone just based on familiarity with each other and the system and the individual growth of Iupati and Davis. Re-sign Snyder and take a developmental prospect in the mid rounds of the draft.
by hammystyle on Feb 6, 2012 3:30 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Three , after all one of the starters are free / agents ...
… knowing that it takes time for any O Line to gel , get Snyder back , other than that I’m kewl with the O line and see what year Two has in store & see who’s available in F/agency , there’s a need here for sure , just have to wait and see what Baalke & Company has in store for us …!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
I'm sorry, but I just don't see how anyone can be satisfied staying par
with an o-line that has been bottom 10 in QB hits & sacks and bottom half in rushing ypc the past 2 seasons.
Yeah, they might improve, but 2 years with very similar o-lines and not much improvement doesn’t bode well. I really hope they improve one way or another though, because we’ll need it if we want to win the division again next year.
I think there was a decent amount of improvement this year
and to be fair, the same thing gets said about O lines as has been said about Alex, that continuity is what they need. And in either situation, I think we’d be ok with what we have, but upgrading is never a bad thing.
i think we should just end the Davis experiment @ RT
kick him inside because he’s probably better suited @ RG anyway. Then give either Boone or Person a shot @ RT; should maybe also think about prospecting for an eventual replacement for Goodwin too
I guess you a one line reader then .. continue on your way ...!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
as opposed to what
keeping Davis where he is @ RT? so am i to surmise that you believe his limited progress this season warrants he retain his job there instead of moving him inside??
Yup , he played better this year then last , young kid and is only going to get better with time & experience ...
… as stated above it takes time for a Offensive line to gel as a cohesive unit , look around the League and the better O Lines have been together for numerous years , they will NOT move him to guard , just silly to think that …!!
I'm your " Huckelberry "...it's just my game ..( .AleX ) was asked , what do you think about all the game manager talk ... AleX i guess i just managed myself a VIctory ... Extend the Man ...!!
One good - No, make that "great thing" on which to hang our hat
Niners brain trust showed their stuff with wins across the board this season because they did their home work and due diligence – among other stuff. Anyway, they have established their unique ability at assessing and evaluating. Can you imagine the going over this whole season will get. Every single little thing that did not work, or did not work precisely as it should will be scrutinized under a microscope. The D, Special Teams – and especially the Offense. I think we’re in for a number of personnel surprises. This team will not be standing pat – or anything close to it.
I gave them a 3
but I would have given them a 3.5 had i been able.
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Im a bit concerned about aging center Johnathon Goodwin...
Although he had a good year for us, he is no young puppy….and Saints cut ties with him for a reason.
Wow! Many of these comments about the OLine are somewhat laughable; in that vein ... how about this as a solution ...
1. Sign free agent LOT Demetrius Bell from Buffalo and install him at LOT. (For those who don’t know him: 6’5", 311#, 27 years old, 3+ years experience.)
2. Re-sign Adam Snyder and make him the “universal backup” at C, LG, RG and RT.
3. Move Anthony Davis from ROT to RG.
4. Move Joe Staley from LOT to ROT.
5. Continue with Jonathan Goodwin one more year at C; then, install Chase Beeler at C.
by 49erFanSince1950 on Feb 7, 2012 2:38 PM PST reply actions
This is laighable.
2 of the five positions, are playing a NEW, position? You can’t tank for Luck after he’s been drafted.
I am not an Alex hater, I'm an Alex apologist hater. Now you know. -Mr Moses
Beeler will never be a starter
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 7, 2012 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Pull for Kilgore or Person if you want a center dark horse
Every time Jamie Dukes says something enlightening and informative about football Jerry Rice and I mount up on our flying grizzly bears and claim pirate treasure from the moon. That's how often it happens.
Just for further context of how not NFL in caliber Beeler's athleticism is
Cordy Glenn who is 350 lbs runs between a 5.2 and a 5.3
Peter Konz who is 315 runs between 5.1 and 5.2
Chase Beeler ran a 5.38 and a 5.47 at his pro day weighing 293.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 8, 2012 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
That much difference is significant enough for the times alone to matter
not to mention he’s carrying 20 less pounds than Konz
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 8, 2012 1:40 PM PST up reply actions

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