49ers All-Time Defensive End #2
After 153 votes, I'd like to congratulate Fred Dean, the first defensive end on our all-time team. While Cedrick Hardman and Tommy Hart put up better career numbers, Dean is definitely a favorite among 49ers fans. He had an impressive impact on some of those 80s championship squads and that definitely carries a certain cachet with it.
I'll now open the polls for the all-time #2 defensive end. Board was a key member of the 80s dynasty, while Hardman and Hart were equal parts of an amazing defensive end duo in the 70s. This will finalize our defensive line, which I have to say is looking pretty amazing. One of these three, combined with Dean, Nomellini and BY would certainly make for one scary defensive line.
Cedrick Hardman (1970-1979): I had mentioned Bryant Young was the 49ers all-time sack leader. However, the 49ers home page has included unofficial sacks recorded before 1982, giving us a new leader. Cedrick Hardman finished his career with 112.5 sacks and two Pro Bowl appearances. Even better? He was the first player signed by the Oakland Invaders of newly formed USFL. Unfortunately for Hardman, playing for some pretty bad squads (finishing his career with back-to-back 2-14 teams) has probably damages his Hall of Fame chances. Consider this though, according to Maiocco's book, Hardman had 18 sacks in 1971, a season of 14 games. Not too shabby.
Tommy Hart (1968-1977): Hart teamed with Hardman to form one of the deadliest defensive end combinations in NFL history. The year before Hardman rolled up 18 sacks, Hart had 16 sacks, including six in a Monday night battle with the Rams. Hart was originally cut by the team as a linebacker before packing weight and establishing himself as a monster defensive end. Hart finished his career with 106 sacks.
Dwaine Board (1979-1988): Board was a member of two championship teams and finished his career with 61 sacks. Board was part of a group of teams that rotated the likes of Fred Dean, Board and Michael Carter to create a ton of pressure. Since retiring, Board has been a defensive line coach for the 49ers and the Seahawks, where he continues as DL coach.
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49ers All-Time Defensive Tackle #2
After settling on Leo Nomellini as the #1 defensive tackle for our all-time team, I was thinking we'd go to a vote for the #2 defensive tackle. However, upon reviewing the 49ers rosters over the last 60 years, I realized Bryant Young is the clear cut #2. The next best options are: 1) Charlie Krueger, who played defensive tackle from 1962 to 1973, as part of a 15 year career with the 49ers and 2) Michael Carter, nose tackle on the three of the 49ers Super Bowl squads. Both ere excellent, but BY is on a whole other level, thus the reason I didn't even open it up for a vote.
We already had much of the discussion on Young in the Hall of Fame thread. While this post might thus seem a little repetitive, I figure the timing is good for this All-Time Team position. BY finished his career this past season as the 49ers all-time leader in sacks. While sacks have only been counted since 1982, the number is still impressive because of the position Young played. Young was always a superb run stopper and the defensive/nose tackle position is less glamorous than the defensive ends and outside linebackers running up sack totals. However, that is probably why it is such a fitting position for Bryant Young. He was a quiet leader who never complained even when he was playing on some seriously bad teams. In this modern era of the me-first athlete, BY was the antithesis of that.
Although one could argue Young hasn't received nearly enough credit outside of the Bay Area, there has been quality recognition. Young was UP Rookie of the Year in 1994, 1999 NFL Comeback Player of the Year, a member of the 1990s All-Decade Team, a four-time All Pro and a 4-time Pro Bowler as well as being named an alternate in 2006. His mark in the franchise is second to none as he is an 8-time winner of the Len Eshmont Award, given to the 49er who best exemplifies courage and leadership. While he may not make it into the Hall of Fame, he has definitely made a lasting impact on 49ers fans. Also, I was looking at his bio on sf49ers.com and apparently he plays electric bass guitar at jazz clubs in the Bay Area. I'm going to have to find one of these clubs and check it out. Unrelated, but interesting nonetheless.
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Is Bryant Young a Hall of Fame player?
While Bryant Young is only recently retired, it's never too early to discuss his Hall of Fame candidacy. Players have to wait five years after retirement before they're eligible to be on the ballot. earlier today, Maiocco pointed out the guys who won't be back in 2009 and it is quite an impressive list: BY, Brett Favre, Michael Strahan, Warren Sapp, Steve McNair and probably Jonathan Ogden and of course Larry Allen. Favre, Strahan, Allen and Ogden are likely locks. I like McNair but am not sold on him as a Hall of Fame QB. Sapp made quite an impact, but I personally think he is a borderline candidate. That leaves us with Bryant Young.
Let's get the obvious stuff out of the way: We all love Bryant Young. He was as classy a player as there has ever been and I don't know of anybody who doesn't like him. If I could have it my way he'd be a Hall of Famer and that's that. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. It's not the Hall of Nice Guys, but rather the Hall of Fame. I definitely think being a nice guy ,might bump him over for voters who are on the fence. However, it takes a little more than that to get to that point. So has Bryant Young done enough to merit induction?
If you went strictly by the statistics he'd be borderline because he didn't accumulate the gaudy stats you see from many Hall of Fame players. The problem with that sort of analysis is that BY's impact went beyond just high sack totals. For defensive linemen, the sack is probably the most relevant among the counting stats. For defensive tackles, the positional demands are going to lead to lower sack totals. Young was always a pass rush threat, but just as importantly, he was a great run stopper. Furthermore, other teams realized how good he was and that led to many double teams. 1997 is a perfect example of this. Dana Stubblefield finished with 15 sacks, was defensive player of the year and walked away with a huge contract from the Redskins. I still contend Bryant Young should have received commission on that deal because he was a primary reason Stubblefield had so many clear shots at the quarterback. Young quietly went about his business and outside of the Bay Area, not much was said about that. That's great for team chemistry, but for a player trying to make a name for yourself, not so much. Of course, we know this was not an issue for BY and we all appreciate that. Unfortunately it might hurt his Hall candidacy. A writer from Jacksonville might look at him and think he was a good guy and a solid player, but not enough of an impact player.
Along those same lines is the team's for which he played. Young was on some quality teams early in his career, but he was on some god-awful teams in the last few years. It would be interesting to see whether that is held against him. On the flip-side, you could argue that should be a point in his favor as he was still quite productive even though teams knew he was the only real weapon along the line.
I was going to try and compare Young with current Hall of Fame defensive linemen, but that is not as simple as it would first appear. The NFL did not start keeping track of sacks until 1982 and so there are a lot of guys not listed on the career list. Additionally, Bryant Young was a big time run stopper who was not always the team was looking to for the sack, so it wouldn't even be fair to compare sack numbers. Warren Sapp will be eligible the same year and he finished with 96.5 sacks, 7 ahead of Young in one less season. However, Sapp was considered a pass rusher first, so it was his job to get those sacks. I think it's fairly reasonable to argue that if Sapp gets in, then Young should as well.
I did a little research and came across the rules for selection into the NFL Hall of Fame. After coming up with preliminary lists, there is a vote reducing the total to 25 Modern Era semifinalists. There is then a vote by the selection committee lowering that number to 15 Modern Era nominees. There is then a vote to reduce the 15 nominees to 10, followed by a vote reducing that number to 5. The 5 remaining individuals are then voted on individually. Each of the five will enter the Hall of Fame if they receive at least 80% of the vote.
I can honestly say I really don't know if BY gets in. I'm a believer in you either are a Hall of Famer or you are not. In all sports, voters talk about how they decided that while the first five times they voted, a certain player was not a Hall of Famer, they finally decided he was deserving. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's just not the way I think. So I've thrown up a poll asking whether you think Young will make it in. It's not asking if you think he SHOULD get in. Simply whether it will happen or not.
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49ers All-Time Defensive Tackle #1
Editor's Note Midnight: Alright I'm a moron. Somehow I ended up on a single track thinking Bryant Young at defensive tackle and completely forgot about Leo Nomellini. I'm going to redo this and figure out a better way to handle this position. I originally had Bryant Young as an automatic entry, but as spenczar so astutely pointed out, that was a mistake on my part. So I'm going to make some changes to this and get it back up shortly.
A while back we had a vote on whether to go with the 3-4 or the 4-3 for the defense on our all-time team. Now that the polls have closed, it was close enough to lead to an executive decision. I've decided to go 4-4 to combine the best of both worlds. Yes this would technically lead to a 12-man defense, but I don't think it's all that big a deal. So, the defensive line will consist of two defensive tackles and two defensive ends, which leads to today's selection.
I had initially thought about opening up a poll including Leon Nomellini and Bryant Young among others. However, as has been pointed out below, Nomellini has been recognized by the NFL as an all-time defensive tackle. Nomellini was the first 49er draft choice after they entered the NFL. While statistics are not available, the awards piled up for Nomellini. Aside from his outstanding offensive line play, he was a 4-time All-NFL defensive tackle and went to 10 Pro Bowls. Add in being named to the NFL's All Time Team at defensive tackle, and there's not a whole lot more you can ask of the man.
What makes his play even more amazing is the fact that he played offense and defense and went 14 years (1950-1963) without missing a game. As they state at his Hall of fame website:
The choice of Nomellini proved to be a superb one. At 6-3 and 260, "The Lion” had everything needed to be an all-time pro great – size, speed, agility, aggressiveness, dedication to the game, superb conditioning and the willingness to go the full 60 minutes of any game.
And a piece of information that is clearly more important than anything else: In the offseason Nomellini was a professional wrestler winning multiple titles in the NWA and AWA. I think that's a sufficient cap to an all-around amazing career. We'll be back with a poll for the #2 defensive tackle later in the week.
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