49ers - Giants: Maiocco Wrap

by Fooch on Oct 21, 2007 10:34 PM PDT in News Comment 16 comments

Well, we're not even 12 hours removed from the end of the 49ers loss in the Meadowlands and Matt Maiocco already has some interesting thoughts, comments and quotes.

Frank Gore had some interesting comments following the game regarding Jim Jostler. Considering the source it's something to take seriously...different than if someone lower on the food chain was saying this.

"I just know that we had Norv Turner," Gore said. "He's been doing it for a while. Whenever he said something we wanted to do it. And now I feel that a lot of people when coach Hoss or somebody calls something, it gets in the back of their heads ,'Is he calling the right play?' instead of just going out there and busting your behind. That's all it is right now, I feel."
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"We're not trusting each other; we're not trusting the coaching," Gore said, clearly frustrated with the 49ers' offensive troubles. "I feel like we don't have the trust. We're not trusting each other. We're not trusting the coordinator. I feel play-calling is overrated. You know what I mean? We're the people out there who have to make the breaks. Right now, we're not doing that. If we didn't have the turnovers and penalties, it would've been a better game."
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"I don't care about the play calls," he said. "Whenever he calls a play, we have to make it work. It's (on) the players."

We'll deal with the substance at some other point. More importantly for now is that Gore made his point like a mature veteran leader should. While he expressed frustration he brought it back to the players and their need to execute. As some of you pointed out, the play-calling was a little more creative today. While the team struggled, they made a few things happen in spite of another relatively poor o-line performance.

Beyond the Gore thoughts, Maiocco already thinks Gore could be doubtful for next week.

Watching Gore after the game, I can't help but think it might be difficult for him to play next week against the Saints...Nolan wanted to take him out of the game, but Gore wouldn't allow that to happen...More should be known about the extent of his injury tomorrow.

One other comment that clears up the Osi Umenyiora sack, fumble and return for a TD:

...it turns out that he was Dilfer's responsibility. There was a line call that directed left tackle Jonas Jennings to block a man inside.

Therefore, Umenyiora was left unblocked. Dilfer knew that. The play was a three-step drop and Dilfer wanted to throw to Ashley Lelie, who was running a fade route. The problem is that Umenyiora is so quick, he got to Dilfer before he could get rid of the football.

"You see that a lot, and the end never gets to you in three steps," said Dilfer, marveling at Umenyiora's speed off the edge.

So at least that's cleared up.

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I'll just x-post about the Umenyiora thing

Because it absolutely blows my mind and helps to convince me that some of our O-Line problems are coming directly at the expense of the center's playcalling.

"First of all, a line call that leaves Umenyiora completely free on the blind side of a quarterback who has negative mobility is just beyond me. I don't know what universe that makes sense in. Further convincing me that Heitmann is not directing things very well from center. I get that because of the call the play falls on Dilfer not getting rid of the ball fast enough, but how you can justify making that call in the first place is beyond me. Is there any scenario where that call is made and Dilfer doesn't get sacked?

I just don't see it.

Ugh."

Anyway, anybody have any other opinions on this? I know I'm jumping on Heitmann right now faster than everybody jumped on Allen last week, but it really seems like the biggest problem with that line is not necessarily the individual players - though I'm d-o-n-e done with Jennings - but rather the assignments being given to those players at the line. And doesn't that fall in Eric? And wasn't Wragge under center a lot last year when things were going so well with the line? Or am I just making up controversy to make myself feel better?

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Oct 21, 2007 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

on the Umenyiora sack

Leaving a Umenyiora uncovered and then running a play with a three-step drop didn't work. Maybe the Niners' brain trust thought it would, but it didn't.

Either Dilfer didn't perform quickly enough, or it was a bad call and it wouldn't work no matter who was quarterbacking. The idea, to get the ball to the hot route (Lelie) is a good idea, but it didn't work.

It's either a quarterback who took too long to throw (but there wasn't that much time) or it's a badly-designed play.

I'm not sure who was the running back or where he was supposed to be on that play but would have felt better if the player was at least chipping on the big U.

---

My 82 year-old mom, sitting in front of a TV in New Jersey, said that the Niners looked like schoolboys playing against men.

I actually felt that the offense showed some life. Granted, the turnovers led to 24 points, and the penalties were terrible, but the team at least tried to behave like an NFL offense. Gore's comments shows that at least some players don't trust Hostler's playcalling. Either the team is going to improve against weak competition or it'll be a long, long season.

by Bob In Pacifica on Oct 22, 2007 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Line audible.

If that is indeed what happened, I actually like the line audible. The 49ers went super spread, meaning there HAD to be someone open at some point. In that kind of a situation, you HAVE to let the outside guy go, because the quickest pressure will ALWAYS come up the middle.

I really disagree with the following statements from Bob in Pacifica:

Maybe the Niners' brain trust thought it would, but it didn't.

It's either a quarterback who took too long to throw (but there wasn't that much time) or it's a badly-designed play.

I disagree with them because it seems he's bringing it back to the coaching, when it was primarily on Trent (and/or Heitmann). To answer your question about the back, Bob, the RB did more than chip the rusher on the other side.

As Maiocco says, Umeyiora was Dilfer's responsibility. I think the sack (and subsequent fumble for 6) were all on Dilfer. He knew the pressure was coming from that side (he even admits it). You see quarterbacks take on a free rusher in those kind of situations (4WR with only 5 linemen and a back to block a blitz), except it is executed better. Trent shouldn't have look for the fade to Lelie, as a fade is basically a cross between a Go route and a corner route. Those take time to develop, and if the other team is blitzing, doesn't he think the deep ball will be the ONE thing the zones will cover?

What a QB should do in one of those situations is hit the quick in, slant or post. Something that goes 5 yards. Three steps is plenty to unload a ball to one of those routes, but definitely not a fade.

Basically I don't blame Heitmann for the audible. As I said, I agree with it. In that situation, there's not much else he could have done. Inside or outside pressure, which would you choose? I would take the outside pressure EVERY time.

To answer your question HTS, Heitmann only missed the last few games. He was injured in week 15 (I believe), so he really only missed 16 and 17. Those were the only games Wragge played center. He played a bit of LT and LG replacing Allen and Jennings, though. I don't think he did any better than Heitmann during those two weeks of action.

by sfgfan on Oct 22, 2007 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just feel like

I'm reaching at strings to figure out the offensive line this year. Every time I think an individual player is the problem (Jennings aside), they seem to shore up their play, but the unit continues to struggle with coverage and assignments.

I'm not sure what gives. Coaching thing is the easiest thing to blame, and it's probably the most likely culprit. It just bothers me that so many line calls, rather than overall scheme, seem to be causing breakdowns or confusion... at least to me.

I think I'm over my initial BOO HEITMANN OMGWTF reaction from the game and that article, and it's probably not completely fair to pin things on him, but this o-line has been a serious enigma and I'm going to continue to pay attention to try and figure it out.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Oct 22, 2007 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's the thing, though.

You can't pin it all on one guy, it'd be difficult to do and even more difficult to prove. As you point out, when you've seemed to pin it on someone, they shore up their play. That is a classic sign of inconsistency, which I think is the reason for the offensive line's struggles. The players just aren't being very consistent, for whatever the reasons may be.

Allen could just be getting old, affecting his consistency. Jennings seems to always be hurt and misses practice, which should affect consistency. Heitmann could be over thinking or over-correcting his "mistakes", which could lead to terrible inconsistencies. Even Staley had a down week this week against Strahan.

by sfgfan on Oct 22, 2007 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

On Gore

I like his comments. I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time anyone in a 49ers uniform has heard the criticism, as it's probably been something on his mind for a while. As far as we know, he may have already brought it up to Nolan last week, and Nolan may have gave him a green light to say it to the media.

The offense needs someone to light a fire under their collective asses, so who better than one of the offense' leaders (and future team captain)?

by sfgfan on Oct 22, 2007 9:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Another good week for the defense.

Not that the Giants' offense is potent or anything, but when you give them as many opportunities as the 49ers' offense did, the Giants offense could definitely hurt you. One of the bright spots of the game was again the performance of the defense. Only ~260 net yards given up, and only ~120 net passing yards. Clements quieted the streaking Burress this past weekend, as most of us around here thought he would. He was held to 5 catches for <50 yards with no scores... I'll take that any weekend.

It was also nice to see Dashon Goldson (#38) and Ray McDonald (#91) in uniform. McDonald got in there for a few plays, so thats a good thing (even though he jumped offside a couple of times). Did Goldson get into regular action at all? Was he even used on special teams?

A guy I'm disappointed in is Brandon Moore. He makes a nice play one moment, and then a REALLY bonehead play in another. He has done it at least twice this season. He isn't doing very much to prove his benching (in favor of Derek Smith) was unwarranted. Hopefully regular time at OLB the rest of the season will result in sharpening up and playing smarter.

by sfgfan on Oct 22, 2007 9:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I turned the game off after the Umeyiora sack

After the penalty which saved the Niners bacon, I saw the Giants overload for the blitz... said uh-oh... Ball game.

Niners OL looks like dirt.

by zenbitz on Oct 22, 2007 12:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn

This is partly what I was worried about. If you look here (assuming they haven't fixed it yet):

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7241/news

If you don't want to check out the link, or if they change it because of my email (yes I have nothing better to do and have the egotistical gall to assume MY email is what made the change happen), this is what was written:

Oct 22 Matt Maiocco, of the Santa Rosa Press Democrat, reports San Francisco 49ers RB Frank Gore believes the biggest problem for the team's offensive woes this season has been the lack of trust between the players and the coaching staff. In particular, Gore called out first year offensive coordinator Jim Hostler, who has not had the same impact on the team as former offensive coordinator Norv Turner did. "I just know that we had Norv Turner," Gore said. "He's been doing it for a while. Whenever he said something we wanted to do it. And now I feel that a lot of people when coach Hoss or somebody calls something, it gets in the back of their heads, 'Is he calling the right play?' instead of just going out there and busting your behind. That's all it is right now, I feel."

Now the story is Frank Gore is calling out Hostler, which he isn't. FANTASTIC. This is at best stupidity and at worst yellow journalism. I just hope this doesn't turn into anything more and gets squashed quickly.

We are not who I thought we were.

by marcello on Oct 22, 2007 4:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Where do we go from here?

I think one of the things going forward is we as an offense will not get any better without speed at the wideout. I find it hard to swallow Nolan complaining about Lelie spiking the ball after the longest play from scrimmage but did not mention the rest of MESS we have who cannot get off the line. We only go vertical unless we are way behind. I thought this offense was a vertial offense? or is a West Coast? It seems to me like an offense with no plan of attack. The Giants has a rookie starting at CB did we go after him, did we isolate him? What about Sam Madison he is 99 years old did we have a plan to attact him? I hear some of you as you read we did not have time. Well a focused attack can lead to focused blocking schemes. That is the problem NO FOCUSED PLAN.,

"Niners Are Back!!!"

by mississippininer on Oct 22, 2007 4:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Looks vs. actuality.

How is anyone supposed to know what the focus of the gameplan was? Unless you work in the meeting rooms sweeping floors while Nolan and Co. are gameplanning, there is really no way to know. With a front seven like they have, their "weak" secondary is difficult to exploit.

Their rookie CB is no slouch. Madison has played pretty darn well this year. Sam Madison was the same guy that jumped one of his corners' wide receivers' routes to take the INT. It wasn't a guy he was covering, he read the play and executed.

I don't know where people get the idea that the offense is a vertical offense. It isn't any of the cliche offenses that the media likes to play off of. Even under Turner, the offense was run to set up the pass. So the team tries that this year and it's not working, and people are ready to say the entire offense sucks. If I'm not mistaken, Dilfer did go vertical quite a bit in the first half, not only when they were down by a bunch.

It just find it wrong in a week that the coaches finally have the gameplan rolling, people still attack them. The players are at fault here. Lelie should know better than to spike the ball. Brandon Moore should know better than to get a late hit on third down. Vernon Davis should know to let a guy go as he begins to separate from you. The players failed to execute and failed miserably. It was not the game plan's fault that the 49ers botched a hand off, threw two INTs and the QB couldn't unload the ball (or at least tuck it away) when he knew he had pressure coming. It was all on the players this week.

by sfgfan on Oct 22, 2007 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where do they go?

They should stick with exactly what they tried to do this week. For the first time all season, the offense scored two TDs (albeit one was during garbage time). If Smith returns to action, the team can also work in rollouts and other plays that utilize his mobility.

by sfgfan on Oct 22, 2007 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

excuses

The digit system or the vertical game, Zampese's or whatever cliche you want or choose not to use. It is not working. It is not working because some of us as fans are looking optimistically as one of the worst offenses of all time. WE cannot run, we cannot pass, we cannot block, we cannot get separation from defenders, we are not hitting holes correctly, we are not playing the right personnel, we are not sustaining drives, we are not getting it done. Blame is on somebody. Pre-season everyone in the niner nation thought we would be better than this on offense. We Are not Getting it done. PERIOD

"Niners Are Back!!!"

by mississippininer on Oct 23, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Digit system.

The digit system is only a terminology reference. It has nothing to do with what the scheme of the offense is. The gist of a "digit system" is to assign each of the routes a number, instead of another phrase, acronym, or name.

The offense this year (at least the original plan, anyway) was to be balanced. Hand-offs to Gore are countered with short comebacks, outs, and slants. The occasional long-ball should also be thrown in there.

I agree that expectations were high coming into this season. I still expect those results, even if they haven't showed any proof that they could achieve them. The offense on the whole stinks, and while there is plenty of blame to go around, I was just saying it's unfair to blame the coaching staff after this week.

The staff prepared a good gameplan, defensive AND offensively. The defensive players came through, as usual. The offensive players, on the other hand, decided they wanted to spot the Giants 24 points. So basically, I'm just saying the players this year have performed way below expectations (and in very many cases stupidly), and it's unfair to blame it on the system that is currently in place (especially after this week).

by sfgfan on Oct 23, 2007 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

At the press conference

Nolan said it was SUPPOSED to be a three-step drop, but that Dilfer took more like a four or four and a half step drop and then got creamed. The play was actually designed to leave Umenyiora uncovered and hit Lelie with a quick pass. So the fumble is all on Dilfer. He should have known this guy was coming, he took too long to throw, and he fumbled it.

From my count you have two interceptions where Dilfer misread the pass defense, the fumble and TD on the Umenyiora play, and the fumble between him and Gore where it looked like he was handing it off too high. If Smith had been in there (and healthy) the Niners would have been competitive. Don't know if they would have won but they would have been competitive.

by Bob In Pacifica on Oct 23, 2007 6:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs