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Week 11 - 49ers vs. St. Louis Rams - Open Thread

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Date: November 18, 2007

Time: 1:15PM PST, 4:15pm EST

Location:Walsh Field @ MPCP

Weather: 63°F, 5mph wind

Injury Report: SF: Alex Smith is out, Trent Dilfer is starting...lord help us all

ScoresAndOdds.com Spread: Rams -3; Over/Under 39.5; Money Line SF +140, STL -160

TV: Fox (Channel 2 in San Francisco)

Announcers: Chris Myers, Rod Woodson (are you kidding me?)

Radio: 1050 AM/107.7 FM

Niners Nation Prediction:Rams 30-6 (REALLY, reverse the jinx)

Feel free to enter your predictions HERE

I'm in the midst of a take-home final for my legal writing class so I won't be watching the game tonight.  I've got my TiVo set and will either watch it tomorrow late morning early afternoon, or if I'm up really late doing my paper tonight, around 3 or 4 in the morning.  We'll see, but either way, maybe the 49ers can get a W.

GO NINERS!

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Michael Robinson and Politics of QB
I can't see why Robinson doesn't at least get a look at QB.  He was an effective college QB playing against tougher competition than Alex faced.  Does it have to do with politics?  Are the 49er brass paranoid that someone else internally may outshine the golden boy Smith?  I'm not sure about others' experience in high school football, but I do know that in my high school (and the other high schools in its region) the factors that determined who became QB were heavily weighted by the community status of the prospective QB's family.   It just seems that the QB position is very political.  It's not all about ability.   Seems to me that the decision whether or not to play Hill or Robinson may not be 100% driven by rational facts.

by DraftQBin2008 on Nov 18, 2007 10:55 AM PST reply actions  

I think
the fact that Robinson wasn't scouted by any team in the NFL as even a potential longterm project or even roster filler at QB, combined with the fact that he hasn't played the position in almost two years should be enough to let us know this would be an awful idea.
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 18, 2007 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

There's not much driven by rational facts
in Ninerville.

I really do hope that the Yorks can Nolan. He just doesn't have it to be a head coach. I don't like how he uses his young players, his coaching staff and team are in disarray. He's a lousy game-day head coach. I don't think that Hostler, Warhop and the rest are great coaches, but I suspect that they'd be better under someone else.

Nolan was either lying about not knowing Smith's condition or he's the biggest idiot in the NFL. The fact that he's got no credible backup speaks volumes for his roster management. He can't use Robinson as a QB, even if MR had gotten the snaps, because he doesn't have enough running backs. He should have kept the rookie on the squad to get a change of pace RB.

Ah, somebody talk me off the ledge!

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 11:05 AM PST reply actions  

Haven't many here
Spent the last week+ talking you very reasonably and convincingly off that ledge? If you're still on it after all that, I think we may not be able to save you after all.
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 18, 2007 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

oh my god
those uniforms are SO beautiful.

GO NINERS!!!

Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 1:16 PM PST reply actions  

crap
if we can't start getting some pressure they'll do this to us all day
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 1:23 PM PST reply actions  

Well
At least we know early that it's going to be a long day.
We are not who I thought we were.

by marcello on Nov 18, 2007 1:23 PM PST reply actions  

wow
nice/lucky catch
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 1:29 PM PST reply actions  

great throw Dilf
way to miss wide open vernon
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 1:32 PM PST reply actions  

NATE!
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions  

crazy Clev/Balt ending
now its goes to OT
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions  

I like the reverse
I don't like Nate Clements returning punts, tho.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions  

80 million
There are 80 million reasons why Clements shouldn't be returning kicks.
jfainsf49

by jfainsf49 on Nov 19, 2007 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

new game, same ol' play calling
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:38 PM PST reply actions  

short yardage
run straight up the gut.  lose 2 yards.  same old same old.
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

the 49ers have been demoted
when it comes to announcers.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:39 PM PST reply actions  

well
at least we're not getting shut out this week
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 1:39 PM PST reply actions  

defense is overrated
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:48 PM PST reply actions  

good challenge
Mike doesn't like to challenge spots of the ball, but that was good one.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:51 PM PST reply actions  

too bad
it didn't do us any good
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

a small victory
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

finally
some pressure
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 2:08 PM PST reply actions  

Dilfer sucks
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:15 PM PST reply actions  

you don't say
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

No really, he does
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

look an unblocked defender
kills Dilfer.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:25 PM PST reply actions  

Luckily
the ledge isn't that high.

Unluckily, neither am I.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 2:28 PM PST reply actions  

HOW DO THEY NOT CALL HOLDING!!!!
THE 49ERS D-LINE is just getting tackled!

FUCK!

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:28 PM PST reply actions  

Well, at least
Well, at least Hostler is calling a good game.

Just a joke.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 2:31 PM PST reply actions  

BY!!!!!!!!
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:32 PM PST reply actions  

BY!
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 2:33 PM PST reply actions  

another sack
what's going on here?
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 2:37 PM PST reply actions  

good protection
and an INT.  Dilfer is GARBAGE
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 2:40 PM PST reply actions  

0 for 7 on 3rd downs
When push comes to shove Allen isn't moving anyone on the left side. The play before they were moving people on the right side.

Does Hostler see this?

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 3:09 PM PST reply actions  

hostler
doesn't see anything
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 3:12 PM PST up reply actions  

you'd think they'd cover Torry Holt on 3rd down
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:11 PM PST reply actions  

0 for 8
on third downs.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 3:19 PM PST reply actions  

play calling
run up the middle for little to no gain
run up the middle for little to no gain
incomplete pass
punt

OR

run up the middle for little to no gain
incomplete pass
run up the middle for little to no gain
punt

OR

run up the middle for little to no gain
short pass for little to no gain
incomplete pass that wouldn't have gotten the first down anyway
punt

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:27 PM PST reply actions  

or
run up the middle for little to no gain
short pass for little to no gain
run up the middle for little to no gain
punt
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh for nein!
Oh, the humanity!

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 3:29 PM PST reply actions  

C'mon Woodso
"A defensive minded game?" REALLY? It's not like the Rams are stopping the Patriots. The 49ers have NEGATIVE OFFENSE, not NO OFFENSE, negative offense. A high school team could stop their "offense."

Frankly, it's only called "offense" because it offends football fans!

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:31 PM PST reply actions  

Rams should challenge that
it was a bad spot
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:34 PM PST reply actions  

2 scores down. it's over
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:39 PM PST reply actions  

it was over
when the Rams didn't forfeit before the game
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

3rd and six
Time for a three yard button hook.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 3:49 PM PST reply actions  

prediction games
if there's no more scoring in the Dallas game I'll be one point from a perfect prediction (it's 28-16, I predicted 28-17). Course that would give me a score of 2 for the game.
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 3:55 PM PST reply actions  

where is this coming from?
how can we pass all of a sudden?
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 3:59 PM PST reply actions  

oh vernon!
that was so close.  apparently Dilfer can throw.
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 4:00 PM PST reply actions  

I hate D Jax
he has the worst hands ever
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 4:00 PM PST reply actions  

anytime he catches the ball
I'm quite shocked.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

we don't need to score on every play
move the ball. jeez.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:03 PM PST reply actions  

go for it!!
wtf?
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 4:03 PM PST reply actions  

Nedney
he's so good at onside kicks that it makes the onside kick look like a reasonable strategy.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

bad 3rd down call
why not throw it for 12 yards and get the first down?  Or throw it for 8 and have a manageable 4th down?  why throw for the endzone there?
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

damn
there goes my near perfect prediction.  28-23 now.
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

True genius
They've baffled the Rams again!

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

game
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 4:06 PM PST reply actions  

Mike Nolan
is about the worst game-day coach I've seen. Unfortunately, he's about the worst at assembling and overseeing a coaching staff and running a team from Monday through Saturday.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:08 PM PST reply actions  

Rams gotta punt here
the 49ers offense sucks. a long field would be insurmountable.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:09 PM PST reply actions  

why spike it?
don't they have 2 plays called in the huddle?
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:12 PM PST reply actions  

Ker-ching!
Like money in the bank!

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:18 PM PST reply actions  

next time
try throwing the ball downfield BEFORE it's desperation time
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 4:18 PM PST reply actions  

GOOD GAME !!!!!!!!
Woodson is blind.  The only thing worse than this game was the announcers.

by pfzilla on Nov 18, 2007 4:22 PM PST reply actions  

Well...
I don't expect Hostler to be back next year. Or Warhop. I can only hope that Nolan is gone too.

Smith? I'd get some other QBs, but there's no point getting rid of him yet. He might actually become a good quarterback on a real team.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:22 PM PST reply actions  

DIlfer looked ok
and broke the streak for games without 200 net yards passing (I think).  If he could do that, Smith could do it, with the right play calls and some better WR play.
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

212 net yards passing
Sometimes he looks like he's shot putting the ball. A few of his passes looked like David Eckstein threw them. He's definitely not the strong armed QB he was earlier in career, though he probably has some bullets left in the gun.  
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't expect Hostler to be back next week
I'm willing to wait on Nolan. he's not an offensive coach, but obviously, there needs to be some pretty big changes.
Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

thank you
Darrell Jackson for dropping that pass. If it hits both your hands, it's farking catch-able.

Hey, at least the Colts are winning.... oh wait....

Merton Hanks, 'nuff said.

by jtoj on Nov 18, 2007 5:52 PM PST reply actions  

so the question becomes
who do the pats take with the #2 pick?  (Miami has to end up with #1)  

I mean, they might go undefeated.  What need could they possibly have?

Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 18, 2007 6:09 PM PST reply actions  

simple answer
they will trade it for a 1st, 2nd and a 1st in 09.

They don't need or will want to pay anybody who will go in the top 5.

by enut21 on Nov 18, 2007 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

yup
I think they'll trade it also.  
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 19, 2007 7:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Hello, Nosetackle
Are you still waiting on Nolan this morning?

Because I'm not. This is the third year. His assistants and his players are in disarray. The offense is the worst in Niner history. He sucks at running the coaching during the week and he double sucks on game-day coaching. He's already thrown Smith under the bus. He's only got so many players on the bus to be thrown under. The play-calling at the end of the game was just plain stupid. The only surprise was that Nolan didn't go for another field goal on the last play instead of throwing it.

So far Vernon Davis as an NFL has proven that he looked really great at the combine. If he's a great receiver split him wide all the time and throw to him. If he's not even an average receiver then make him a tackle. His free agent signings are pretty much the same.

Get rid of him. Singletary is gone after this season anyway, so cut to the chase and pay him the two million owed, Jed York. Get a real coach. The roster isn't great but it's better than the results.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 8:18 AM PST reply actions  

Amen
I have been a staunch Nolan supporter in the past but no more.  He is at fault for not throwing Hostler overboard weeks ago.  

Hostler is so predictable its sickening.  He comes out each game, takes a shot deep, then proceeds to play conserva-ball.  He seldom draws up plays that allow the WRs and QB to work the middle of the field. And he has proven at least 3 times that he cannot dial up a play to get 1 yard when necessary.  

Nolan has supported Hostler the Horrible for too long. It is time for them to go.  

jfainsf49

by jfainsf49 on Nov 19, 2007 8:58 AM PST reply actions  

Say he threw him overboard...
... who is available that would have been a guaranteed improvement?  The reason he was stuck with Hostler is because he had no other options.  Let him go in the middle of the season, and there are suddenly more options?  I don't think that works.

by sfgfan on Nov 19, 2007 9:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Mooch
I think Mariucci would be a suitable replacement.
jfainsf49

by jfainsf49 on Nov 19, 2007 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

He took the year off.
If he had wanted a coordinator job, there is little doubt in my mind he would be one right now.

by sfgfan on Nov 19, 2007 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Some overall thoughts
While I'm not a Hostler fan by any means, who would Nolan have replaced him with in the middle of the season?  A bye week isn't enough time to script a new playbook.

I'm starting to wonder how much Frank Gore's ankle is bugging him, because despite predictable play calling and bad blocking, Gore hasn't shown any flash whatsoever this season since week 2 (when he had that long TD run).  It's as if he no longer has the same vision, which seems unlikely, so you've got to believe that ankle is really holding him back more than he's willing to admit.  Also, he looks a little different like he's put on some weight.  Does anyone else see this?

by jaytierney on Nov 19, 2007 9:36 AM PST reply actions  

Gore
I don't think he looks like he's put on weight.  He's always been on the "big" side, if you could really call that big.  He's built "well" for his height, and I don't think that has changed much.

I do agree that his ankle is probably hurting him more than he's letting on.  He's trying to be a leader for this offense that so sorely needs one (fresh off a new contract and all), so I could see him not admitting it.  He has admitted that having an ankle injury is a new thing to him, and that it's affected him more than he thought it ever would.  If the 49ers continue to fall, Gore will eventually get a lot more rest (especially during the week).  He may still play Sundays, but he'll probably start getting the veteran treatment.

by sfgfan on Nov 19, 2007 9:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Gore
I have noticed that Gore looks heavier.  He seems to have lost some vision, too. I have noticed several times where he just runs into the back of his linemen.  He exrpessed frustration earlier this year, saying something to the effect that the players don't trust Hostler's play calling.  I don't know about the rest of the team but Gore is playing some uninspired football.
jfainsf49

by jfainsf49 on Nov 19, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

oops
I said I didn't know about the rest of the team, they all are playing uninspired.
jfainsf49

by jfainsf49 on Nov 19, 2007 10:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Wrong questions
It's the wrong questions about who Nolan would replace Hostler with in the middle of the season. I don't expect coaching changes in the middle of the season. I'm HOPING for coaching changes at the end of the season. Right after the last game, so that the Niners have the pick of the field from the start.

The offense is badly coached during the week. They make too many mistakes in execution. I believe that the conservative play-calling is all on Nolan. Hostler doesn't do what Nolan doesn't want. I honestly won't know about his ability to play-call as long as Nolan plays not to lose. If it's Nolan's idea to kick a field goal instead of trying to get a TD, don't think he doesn't have his fingers in all play-calling.

Nolan is lost in organizing the team, in the way the team runs its offense, and the drafts and signings haven't been anything more than mediocre.

We all suffer for the remainder of the season. Then get rid of Nolan.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 11:04 AM PST reply actions  

Drafts and signings have been mediocre?
See, I understand pessimism.  I understand it if a person is down on this team as a whole.  But you'd have be smoking some serious crack to believe that the drafts and signings have been mediocre.  The signings, perhaps, but it's a little hard to judge them by themselves, as so much of the performance of the defense this year (which is where the majority of the free agents have come to help) has been attributed to by the offense.

Last season, the biggest splash in free agency was  Antonio Bryant.  Last year, before all of his useless trouble caught up with him, he had 49ers fans thinking that Alex Smith could be for real.  He helped Alex show that he CAN indeed throw the deep ball and throw it accurately.

The biggest splash they've made in free agency is paying huge dividends.  The 49ers (as Fooch has mentioned a few times before) are very good against the other team's #1 WR.  That has a lot to do with Clements himself.  Up until the past few weeks, the 49ers were #1 against #1 WRs.  That speaks worlds of Clements.

The signings of Franklin and Banta-Cain are fairly small signings.  It's a little unfair to place judgment on Banta-Cain considering the 49ers defensive line is pretty under-manned for a 3-4 line.  Franklin's signing was relatively small (3-years @ less than $2M a year through most of the contract, if I'm not mistaken), so the 49ers brass took a chance on a known quantity that had potential to bring back more than he took.

So yeah, I guess you can say the signings were mediocre.  But is it really fair to judge most of them (Franklin, Banta-Cain, Lewis) as if they were signed to be saviors?  I don't think it is.

As for the draft, there are way too many positives coming out of them for anyone to say they are mediocre at best.  Mediocre, to me, means around average or just below, which would imply that the 49ers draft much like many other NFL teams would.  I strongly believe that to NOT be the case, and that the 49ers have drafted VERY well.  I'm sure I'm not the only one here who believes that, either.

by sfgfan on Nov 19, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Mediocre
The defensive picks and signings have been pretty good. Willis is a great player. Lawson may be great (but he isn't yet). Clement and Lewis were good signings. Banta-Cain was supposed to be the pressure in a 3-4 and he hasn't delivered. I am more likely to suspect that that if a player doesn't deliver on defense it's on him because the defense is generally playing well.

The offense has been terrible: DJax. Lelie. Gilmore. I am beginning to suspect that the greatness of Vernon Davis isn't all that it's cracked up to be. His combine showing hasn't translated into anything on the field. I think Staley will be fine but he's a rookie. But most of the other rookies drafted haven't seen the field on Sundays. Other teams select rookies that get some playing time during the year. Other teams draft rookies who play, run the ball, make catches.

Mediocre means in the middle. Average. I actually think that with a decent coaching staff this team could compete in the NFC, certainly in the NFC West. My main complaint is with the coaching staff, more specifically the offense not being prepared and Nolan's intrusion into the offense with his bizarre, ultra-conservative philosophy.

When Nolan says it's a "collective problem" he's avoiding his own responsibility in this mess. Why are there so many penalties? Why are timeouts called because the wrong players are on the field? Why is the team so hapless on third downs? That's bad coaching.

There are glaring problems. Allen is finished. Every time they run to the left the only thing Allen does is get in the way. No push. The team would get a lift by benching him. But the bottom line is that the play-calling is terrible, when the right play is called it's not executed. I think that Dilfer actually had a good game, considering.

Maybe you're right, sfgfan. Maybe the drafts have been gold. Maybe Nolan is a shrewd judge of talent. Then how come the team sucks so bad? It's either the players or the coaches. I'm saying it's mostly the coaching, but the players aren't great.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Hammer, meet nail.
I've said it for the past three weeks, and either you've ignored it or are too involved with your own opinions to remember.  I think that coaching IS part of the problem.  In actuality, I think it is a big part of the problem.

However, most of the team's problems are on the offensive side of the ball, which makes sense considering where they are there coaching wise.  I'm in the camp that thinks it's not Nolan's fault he doesn't know defense.  There are plenty of coaches who are one-sided.  He needs some competent offensive assistants as he was screwed into selecting Hostler as the coordinator this past offseason.

Until he sticks with Hostler as other teams are making coaching changes, I don't think it's fair to say Nolan is an inept coach.  This defense (and special teams, though he probably has less of an influence on them) is doing some good things and has the potential to be great.  He needs help on the other side of the ball, though.  Nevermind what he's saying now about Hostler, as he was saying the same things about Billy Davis last year (before AND after relieving him of the play-calling duties, and before firing him).  If he doesn't fire Hostler, or at least bring in a new coordinator (pushing Hostler down the chain), then call for Nolan's head.  Until then, though, I think it's very unfair.

by sfgfan on Nov 19, 2007 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

The quality of play on the field
The quality of play on the field is what the coach is ultimately judged on. Are the Niners good?

This is the absolute worst offense in my memory, and I go back pre-Walsh. This head coach is responsible for choosing his coaching staff, for choosing the players. What gives?

Hostler was the quarterback coach last year. Nolan chose him, and then promoted him. It's all on Nolan. Was he satisfied with the OTAs? Did he watch how Hostler (and the rest) coached? Do you think that Nolan wanted a more dynamic offense but Hostler is purposely calling predictable run plays in spite of what Nolan wants? Do you really think that Hostler is screwing around and making a predictable, conservative offense behind Nolan's back? Do you think great tight ends false start every game? Do you think that when the offense can't convert a third down that they're unlucky?

I think that the quality of players on the team is average and that they're playing below average. That's what my eyes see every weekend, that's what everyone else sees.

I thought that this is supposed to be the place to write your opinions of the Niners. If your opinion is that Mike Nolan is a great coach, or even a good coach, please tell us why. I don't see it. I see a disorganized team that is badly coached and directionless. If you are witholding your judgment on Nolan, so be it. I've made up my mind. He stinks.

My opinion is that the Niners aren't a very good team. Their players are average. The ones who were supposed to be super stars haven't shown it on the field. Either they're not as good as advertised or their coaches suck. Great players step up. Good coaches coach. Every week the offense is unprepared and each week they get worse.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

My Take: Pro-Nolan
Just so I don't have to type it all up again.
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 19, 2007 8:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh
I have two comments in the above exchange, and the second might be more important than the first. So don't stop at the first if you want the full effect of my opinion.
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 19, 2007 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Quick to judge...
Woah!  "I am beginning to suspect that the greatness of Vernon Davis isn't all that it's cracked up to be."

Really?  I mean, this is only his second season and he spent a good portion of last year injured.  Very few players come into this league and are great immediately, but Davis has shown flashes of tremendous ability (more than any other player on this team, you perk up when he gets the ball because he might just break a few tackles and take it downfield).  His development has also suffered a bit due to the offense not using him consistently, so you'll see him get a little over-excited when the ball comes his way.  I still fully expect VD to be a pro bowl Tight End in the coming years.

by jaytierney on Nov 19, 2007 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Not to mention...
When the 49ers get some decent receivers, VD will become even more of a threat because safeties won't be able to keep as close an eye on him (as it stands, our receivers can be eliminated by single coverage, so opposing linebackers often have safety help when overmatched by VD's speed).

by jaytierney on Nov 19, 2007 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Davis showed a flash
That was in the first game last season, in Arizona. I've seen a lot of false starts and dropped balls since.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have potential, and it's true that the coaching staff has failed to use his potential, but let's get real. He was supposed to be the next great tight end and to date he isn't. He may end up being a good tight end, and he and Alex Smith may set all sorts of records at some point in the future.

We all read the news clips. Vernon Davis was supposed to transform the position of tight end, remember. It hasn't happened.

The best hope for success of these players is if Nolan is gone and some coach who is either very good with the offense, or has a staff that is very good with the offense, comes in here. If Nolan finishes out his contract (another two years) that will be four years of Davis under a coach who has demonstrated his cluelessness about offense.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

49ers fans...
... are allowing the frustration of the past several years to make them too quick to judge.

We're talking about a player who has only played in 18 NFL games, counting this past Sunday.  In those 18 games he has 572 receiving yards and 4 TD.  Better yet, on a historically inept offense this season, he still has 307 receiving yards in only 8 games (and about 50 more if it wasn't for a bad officiating call against Pittsburgh), surrounded by a horrible receiving core.  He is not off to a bad start... let's not turn into Philadelphia fans.

by jaytierney on Nov 19, 2007 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

yes
too early to judge Vernon, especially given his injuries and inconsistent QB play... heck the QB keeps changing also.  He has the physical tools to be great.  He seems to be a little slow on the uptake of the playbook - also he doesn't always play smart (e.g. not getting down at the end of the game this week), and he commits stupid penalties (false start, false start, etc).  Still, given time and staying healthy and getting a better offense around him, he can be a star.
Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 20, 2007 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I would like to add...
He is magnificent in RAC ability.  He is always looking to muscle someone off of him and turn up field, which is a great plus.  Remember that play against Green Bay last season?  Blew right through the corner and safety that were covering him and made another safety "miss" his tackle (when he was really wanting no part of that freight train).

He has also shown quite the ability to block.  Run blocking, with his ridiculous strength, has been fairly solid.  He has committed holding penalties here and there, but otherwise has been clean.

He needs to concentrate more, which will lead to the minimization of his mistakes.  I think his false starts, ill-timed attempts at breaking tackles, occasional weak routes, and false starts are a result of lack of concentration.  That will come with time, though.

by sfgfan on Nov 20, 2007 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree and disagree
I actually think Nolan's drafting and personel moves have been excellent, he's just not making good use of the talent he's acquired -- which is why we're all so frustrated.

by jaytierney on Nov 19, 2007 12:05 PM PST reply actions  

Coaching staffs
Just a thought:

Suppose the Patriots coaching staff was coaching the Niners.  What would the Niners record be?

Now, for the reverse.  Suppose the Niners coaching staff was coaching the Pats?  What would the Pats record be?

How you answer will give a sense about where you think the problem lies.

BTW, I'm becoming a real Andy Lee fan.  Dude can punt, for sure.  I almost can't wait for him to come out and do his thing.  Gotta take whatever crumbs I can, you know.

by Roger from SF on Nov 19, 2007 2:27 PM PST reply actions  

A. Lee
Maybe we could bring in Lee to punt it to our receivers, wait our receivers can't catch a pass much less a punt. Nevermind.
Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 19, 2007 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

This is a very good question.
This is a very good question you pose.  The answer, however, may not indicate exactly what you think it will.

In my opinion, this team goes beyond the coaching staff (though they are a very big part of it).  Basically, if the Pats' coaching staff were coaching these 49ers, they would have a better record (for sure), but still probably in the .500 range.  Why do I say this?

The QB is still very young.  I'm under the impression that Belichick would love to be Alex Smith's coach, though.  Tough kid with lots of brains.  That sounds like a Belichick kind of player all the way.  Like him or not, Alex is still very young and has been screwed by two (or some could make the argument for three) offensive systems in three years.  He'll still need a little bit of time to learn and prove his worth.

The WRs are really underachieving.  I don't think this is the WRs coach's fault, as Jerry Sullivan is well respected in NFL circles.  The WRs just aren't executing.  Whether it be route running, blocking or just plain catching a ball they should catch, they are not executing.

The offensive line has underachieved as well.  Before the season started, many people in the NFL believed it was a position of strength for the 49ers.  People outside of San Francisco actually believe Kwame is a worthy starter (as his payday will prove this offseason).  What happens, though?  The offensive line crumbles for whatever the reasons may be.  Some say Allen is old, could be.  Some say Jennings just sucks, could be.  Some say Heitmann haven't recovered, could be.  Some say Smiley sucks, could be that as well.  Regardless of what people are saying now, though, many people outside of San Francisco believed this offensive line was a strength, but they have proven to be otherwise.

Defensively, I think it'd be a push between coaching staffs.  I don't think the Pats' coaching staff would do any better than the 49ers are doing right now on the defensive side of the ball (especially without Manny Lawson).

So yeah, the offense could probably be more prepared (or better prepared, which ever you prefer).  However, the players will probably still make similar mistakes (though, it's possible they won't come around AS often).  This is why I think the team's record wouldn't be much greater than .500.

This doesn't mean that I don't think the problem lies in the coaching.  I think the Patriots are way better prepared on offense, and that would help this team a lot.  I just don't think the players will play up to it on a consistent basis.

by sfgfan on Nov 19, 2007 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with sfgfan here
With a better coaching staff this team would be around .500. While the defense isn't great (they need more help on the D line) they actually have a very good record for yards-per-play given up. It's just that they're usually on the field twice as long as their offense.

With a slight improvement of the offense, you know, establish the ability to actually make first downs and establish drives, the defense would be better.

I would suspect that the offense would play better. They'd make less mistakes, run routes better. And maybe instead of trading for DJax or signing Lelie they'd get someone like a Welcker or Stallworth. As bad as our receivers have played this year, I suspect with better coaching even they'd do better.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Great question
First, if the 49ers coaching staff were in charge in New England, the defense would be equally solid, but after a few weeks Tom Brady would take over play calling on offense.  They'd certainly have lost at least one game because of it.

In reverse, the 49ers would have a serious chance to be not just 5-5, but maybe even 6-4 considering that they've lost some games to some bad teams (like the Rams yesterday).  That's how much I truly believe Nolan is not utilizing his personel.

Alex Smith would be playing 100% better, that much I'm sure of.  Belichick is such a freak about technique and mechanics that he'd be working his young QB late into the night until he got it down.  Not to discredit Brady, but if you watch his early games vs. the last few years, his mechanics have developed from good/decent to absolute perfection, and I'm sure Belichick and others (Weis) played a significant role in this.

by jaytierney on Nov 19, 2007 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I would say
with switched coaching staffs, and if you replayed all the games:

Niners:  0-10
Patriots: 10-0

The Niners were lucky to win the first 2.  

No amount of coaching is going to get that line to block.

by zenbitz on Nov 20, 2007 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Soooo....
Last year was a complete fluke, then?
I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2007 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

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