Week 11 - 49ers vs. St. Louis Rams - Open Thread
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Date: November 18, 2007
Time: 1:15PM PST, 4:15pm EST
Location:Walsh Field @ MPCP
Weather: 63°F, 5mph wind
Injury Report: SF: Alex Smith is out, Trent Dilfer is starting...lord help us all
ScoresAndOdds.com Spread: Rams -3; Over/Under 39.5; Money Line SF +140, STL -160
TV: Fox (Channel 2 in San Francisco)
Announcers: Chris Myers, Rod Woodson (are you kidding me?)
Radio: 1050 AM/107.7 FM
Niners Nation Prediction:Rams 30-6 (REALLY, reverse the jinx)
Feel free to enter your predictions HERE
I'm in the midst of a take-home final for my legal writing class so I won't be watching the game tonight. I've got my TiVo set and will either watch it tomorrow late morning early afternoon, or if I'm up really late doing my paper tonight, around 3 or 4 in the morning. We'll see, but either way, maybe the 49ers can get a W.
GO NINERS!
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Michael Robinson and Politics of QB
by DraftQBin2008 on Nov 18, 2007 10:55 AM PST reply actions
I think
by howtheyscored on Nov 18, 2007 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
There's not much driven by rational facts
I really do hope that the Yorks can Nolan. He just doesn't have it to be a head coach. I don't like how he uses his young players, his coaching staff and team are in disarray. He's a lousy game-day head coach. I don't think that Hostler, Warhop and the rest are great coaches, but I suspect that they'd be better under someone else.
Nolan was either lying about not knowing Smith's condition or he's the biggest idiot in the NFL. The fact that he's got no credible backup speaks volumes for his roster management. He can't use Robinson as a QB, even if MR had gotten the snaps, because he doesn't have enough running backs. He should have kept the rookie on the squad to get a change of pace RB.
Ah, somebody talk me off the ledge!
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 11:05 AM PST reply actions
Haven't many here
by howtheyscored on Nov 18, 2007 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
crap
crazy Clev/Balt ending
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions
I like the reverse
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions
new game, same ol' play calling
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:38 PM PST reply actions
short yardage
the 49ers have been demoted
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:39 PM PST reply actions
defense is overrated
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:48 PM PST reply actions
good challenge
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 1:51 PM PST reply actions
a small victory
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Dilfer sucks
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:15 PM PST reply actions
No really, he does
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
look an unblocked defender
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:25 PM PST reply actions
Luckily
Unluckily, neither am I.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 2:28 PM PST reply actions
HOW DO THEY NOT CALL HOLDING!!!!
FUCK!
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:28 PM PST reply actions
Well, at least
Just a joke.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 2:31 PM PST reply actions
BY!!!!!!!!
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 2:32 PM PST reply actions
0 for 7 on 3rd downs
Does Hostler see this?
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 3:09 PM PST reply actions
you'd think they'd cover Torry Holt on 3rd down
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:11 PM PST reply actions
play calling
run up the middle for little to no gain
incomplete pass
punt
OR
run up the middle for little to no gain
incomplete pass
run up the middle for little to no gain
punt
OR
run up the middle for little to no gain
short pass for little to no gain
incomplete pass that wouldn't have gotten the first down anyway
punt
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:27 PM PST reply actions
or
short pass for little to no gain
run up the middle for little to no gain
punt
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Niners still under 100 yard offense
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 3:30 PM PST reply actions
C'mon Woodso
Frankly, it's only called "offense" because it offends football fans!
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:31 PM PST reply actions
Rams should challenge that
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:34 PM PST reply actions
2 scores down. it's over
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 3:39 PM PST reply actions
3rd and six
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 3:49 PM PST reply actions
prediction games
anytime he catches the ball
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
we don't need to score on every play
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:03 PM PST reply actions
Nedney
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:04 PM PST reply actions
bad 3rd down call
True genius
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:04 PM PST reply actions
Mike Nolan
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:08 PM PST reply actions
Rams gotta punt here
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:09 PM PST reply actions
Why do I feel an interception coming on?
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:10 PM PST reply actions
why spike it?
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 4:12 PM PST reply actions
next time
Well...
Smith? I'd get some other QBs, but there's no point getting rid of him yet. He might actually become a good quarterback on a real team.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 18, 2007 4:22 PM PST reply actions
DIlfer looked ok
212 net yards passing
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
I don't expect Hostler to be back next week
by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 18, 2007 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
thank you
Hey, at least the Colts are winning.... oh wait....
so the question becomes
I mean, they might go undefeated. What need could they possibly have?
simple answer
They don't need or will want to pay anybody who will go in the top 5.
Hello, Nosetackle
Because I'm not. This is the third year. His assistants and his players are in disarray. The offense is the worst in Niner history. He sucks at running the coaching during the week and he double sucks on game-day coaching. He's already thrown Smith under the bus. He's only got so many players on the bus to be thrown under. The play-calling at the end of the game was just plain stupid. The only surprise was that Nolan didn't go for another field goal on the last play instead of throwing it.
So far Vernon Davis as an NFL has proven that he looked really great at the combine. If he's a great receiver split him wide all the time and throw to him. If he's not even an average receiver then make him a tackle. His free agent signings are pretty much the same.
Get rid of him. Singletary is gone after this season anyway, so cut to the chase and pay him the two million owed, Jed York. Get a real coach. The roster isn't great but it's better than the results.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 8:18 AM PST reply actions
Amen
Hostler is so predictable its sickening. He comes out each game, takes a shot deep, then proceeds to play conserva-ball. He seldom draws up plays that allow the WRs and QB to work the middle of the field. And he has proven at least 3 times that he cannot dial up a play to get 1 yard when necessary.
Nolan has supported Hostler the Horrible for too long. It is time for them to go.
Say he threw him overboard...
He took the year off.
Some overall thoughts
I'm starting to wonder how much Frank Gore's ankle is bugging him, because despite predictable play calling and bad blocking, Gore hasn't shown any flash whatsoever this season since week 2 (when he had that long TD run). It's as if he no longer has the same vision, which seems unlikely, so you've got to believe that ankle is really holding him back more than he's willing to admit. Also, he looks a little different like he's put on some weight. Does anyone else see this?
Gore
I do agree that his ankle is probably hurting him more than he's letting on. He's trying to be a leader for this offense that so sorely needs one (fresh off a new contract and all), so I could see him not admitting it. He has admitted that having an ankle injury is a new thing to him, and that it's affected him more than he thought it ever would. If the 49ers continue to fall, Gore will eventually get a lot more rest (especially during the week). He may still play Sundays, but he'll probably start getting the veteran treatment.
Gore
Wrong questions
The offense is badly coached during the week. They make too many mistakes in execution. I believe that the conservative play-calling is all on Nolan. Hostler doesn't do what Nolan doesn't want. I honestly won't know about his ability to play-call as long as Nolan plays not to lose. If it's Nolan's idea to kick a field goal instead of trying to get a TD, don't think he doesn't have his fingers in all play-calling.
Nolan is lost in organizing the team, in the way the team runs its offense, and the drafts and signings haven't been anything more than mediocre.
We all suffer for the remainder of the season. Then get rid of Nolan.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 11:04 AM PST reply actions
Drafts and signings have been mediocre?
Last season, the biggest splash in free agency was Antonio Bryant. Last year, before all of his useless trouble caught up with him, he had 49ers fans thinking that Alex Smith could be for real. He helped Alex show that he CAN indeed throw the deep ball and throw it accurately.
The biggest splash they've made in free agency is paying huge dividends. The 49ers (as Fooch has mentioned a few times before) are very good against the other team's #1 WR. That has a lot to do with Clements himself. Up until the past few weeks, the 49ers were #1 against #1 WRs. That speaks worlds of Clements.
The signings of Franklin and Banta-Cain are fairly small signings. It's a little unfair to place judgment on Banta-Cain considering the 49ers defensive line is pretty under-manned for a 3-4 line. Franklin's signing was relatively small (3-years @ less than $2M a year through most of the contract, if I'm not mistaken), so the 49ers brass took a chance on a known quantity that had potential to bring back more than he took.
So yeah, I guess you can say the signings were mediocre. But is it really fair to judge most of them (Franklin, Banta-Cain, Lewis) as if they were signed to be saviors? I don't think it is.
As for the draft, there are way too many positives coming out of them for anyone to say they are mediocre at best. Mediocre, to me, means around average or just below, which would imply that the 49ers draft much like many other NFL teams would. I strongly believe that to NOT be the case, and that the 49ers have drafted VERY well. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who believes that, either.
Mediocre
The offense has been terrible: DJax. Lelie. Gilmore. I am beginning to suspect that the greatness of Vernon Davis isn't all that it's cracked up to be. His combine showing hasn't translated into anything on the field. I think Staley will be fine but he's a rookie. But most of the other rookies drafted haven't seen the field on Sundays. Other teams select rookies that get some playing time during the year. Other teams draft rookies who play, run the ball, make catches.
Mediocre means in the middle. Average. I actually think that with a decent coaching staff this team could compete in the NFC, certainly in the NFC West. My main complaint is with the coaching staff, more specifically the offense not being prepared and Nolan's intrusion into the offense with his bizarre, ultra-conservative philosophy.
When Nolan says it's a "collective problem" he's avoiding his own responsibility in this mess. Why are there so many penalties? Why are timeouts called because the wrong players are on the field? Why is the team so hapless on third downs? That's bad coaching.
There are glaring problems. Allen is finished. Every time they run to the left the only thing Allen does is get in the way. No push. The team would get a lift by benching him. But the bottom line is that the play-calling is terrible, when the right play is called it's not executed. I think that Dilfer actually had a good game, considering.
Maybe you're right, sfgfan. Maybe the drafts have been gold. Maybe Nolan is a shrewd judge of talent. Then how come the team sucks so bad? It's either the players or the coaches. I'm saying it's mostly the coaching, but the players aren't great.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Hammer, meet nail.
However, most of the team's problems are on the offensive side of the ball, which makes sense considering where they are there coaching wise. I'm in the camp that thinks it's not Nolan's fault he doesn't know defense. There are plenty of coaches who are one-sided. He needs some competent offensive assistants as he was screwed into selecting Hostler as the coordinator this past offseason.
Until he sticks with Hostler as other teams are making coaching changes, I don't think it's fair to say Nolan is an inept coach. This defense (and special teams, though he probably has less of an influence on them) is doing some good things and has the potential to be great. He needs help on the other side of the ball, though. Nevermind what he's saying now about Hostler, as he was saying the same things about Billy Davis last year (before AND after relieving him of the play-calling duties, and before firing him). If he doesn't fire Hostler, or at least bring in a new coordinator (pushing Hostler down the chain), then call for Nolan's head. Until then, though, I think it's very unfair.
The quality of play on the field
This is the absolute worst offense in my memory, and I go back pre-Walsh. This head coach is responsible for choosing his coaching staff, for choosing the players. What gives?
Hostler was the quarterback coach last year. Nolan chose him, and then promoted him. It's all on Nolan. Was he satisfied with the OTAs? Did he watch how Hostler (and the rest) coached? Do you think that Nolan wanted a more dynamic offense but Hostler is purposely calling predictable run plays in spite of what Nolan wants? Do you really think that Hostler is screwing around and making a predictable, conservative offense behind Nolan's back? Do you think great tight ends false start every game? Do you think that when the offense can't convert a third down that they're unlucky?
I think that the quality of players on the team is average and that they're playing below average. That's what my eyes see every weekend, that's what everyone else sees.
I thought that this is supposed to be the place to write your opinions of the Niners. If your opinion is that Mike Nolan is a great coach, or even a good coach, please tell us why. I don't see it. I see a disorganized team that is badly coached and directionless. If you are witholding your judgment on Nolan, so be it. I've made up my mind. He stinks.
My opinion is that the Niners aren't a very good team. Their players are average. The ones who were supposed to be super stars haven't shown it on the field. Either they're not as good as advertised or their coaches suck. Great players step up. Good coaches coach. Every week the offense is unprepared and each week they get worse.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
My Take: Pro-Nolan
by howtheyscored on Nov 19, 2007 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Oh
by howtheyscored on Nov 19, 2007 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
Quick to judge...
Really? I mean, this is only his second season and he spent a good portion of last year injured. Very few players come into this league and are great immediately, but Davis has shown flashes of tremendous ability (more than any other player on this team, you perk up when he gets the ball because he might just break a few tackles and take it downfield). His development has also suffered a bit due to the offense not using him consistently, so you'll see him get a little over-excited when the ball comes his way. I still fully expect VD to be a pro bowl Tight End in the coming years.
Not to mention...
Davis showed a flash
I'm not saying that he doesn't have potential, and it's true that the coaching staff has failed to use his potential, but let's get real. He was supposed to be the next great tight end and to date he isn't. He may end up being a good tight end, and he and Alex Smith may set all sorts of records at some point in the future.
We all read the news clips. Vernon Davis was supposed to transform the position of tight end, remember. It hasn't happened.
The best hope for success of these players is if Nolan is gone and some coach who is either very good with the offense, or has a staff that is very good with the offense, comes in here. If Nolan finishes out his contract (another two years) that will be four years of Davis under a coach who has demonstrated his cluelessness about offense.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
49ers fans...
We're talking about a player who has only played in 18 NFL games, counting this past Sunday. In those 18 games he has 572 receiving yards and 4 TD. Better yet, on a historically inept offense this season, he still has 307 receiving yards in only 8 games (and about 50 more if it wasn't for a bad officiating call against Pittsburgh), surrounded by a horrible receiving core. He is not off to a bad start... let's not turn into Philadelphia fans.
yes
I would like to add...
He has also shown quite the ability to block. Run blocking, with his ridiculous strength, has been fairly solid. He has committed holding penalties here and there, but otherwise has been clean.
He needs to concentrate more, which will lead to the minimization of his mistakes. I think his false starts, ill-timed attempts at breaking tackles, occasional weak routes, and false starts are a result of lack of concentration. That will come with time, though.
Agree and disagree
Coaching staffs
Suppose the Patriots coaching staff was coaching the Niners. What would the Niners record be?
Now, for the reverse. Suppose the Niners coaching staff was coaching the Pats? What would the Pats record be?
How you answer will give a sense about where you think the problem lies.
BTW, I'm becoming a real Andy Lee fan. Dude can punt, for sure. I almost can't wait for him to come out and do his thing. Gotta take whatever crumbs I can, you know.
This is a very good question.
In my opinion, this team goes beyond the coaching staff (though they are a very big part of it). Basically, if the Pats' coaching staff were coaching these 49ers, they would have a better record (for sure), but still probably in the .500 range. Why do I say this?
The QB is still very young. I'm under the impression that Belichick would love to be Alex Smith's coach, though. Tough kid with lots of brains. That sounds like a Belichick kind of player all the way. Like him or not, Alex is still very young and has been screwed by two (or some could make the argument for three) offensive systems in three years. He'll still need a little bit of time to learn and prove his worth.
The WRs are really underachieving. I don't think this is the WRs coach's fault, as Jerry Sullivan is well respected in NFL circles. The WRs just aren't executing. Whether it be route running, blocking or just plain catching a ball they should catch, they are not executing.
The offensive line has underachieved as well. Before the season started, many people in the NFL believed it was a position of strength for the 49ers. People outside of San Francisco actually believe Kwame is a worthy starter (as his payday will prove this offseason). What happens, though? The offensive line crumbles for whatever the reasons may be. Some say Allen is old, could be. Some say Jennings just sucks, could be. Some say Heitmann haven't recovered, could be. Some say Smiley sucks, could be that as well. Regardless of what people are saying now, though, many people outside of San Francisco believed this offensive line was a strength, but they have proven to be otherwise.
Defensively, I think it'd be a push between coaching staffs. I don't think the Pats' coaching staff would do any better than the 49ers are doing right now on the defensive side of the ball (especially without Manny Lawson).
So yeah, the offense could probably be more prepared (or better prepared, which ever you prefer). However, the players will probably still make similar mistakes (though, it's possible they won't come around AS often). This is why I think the team's record wouldn't be much greater than .500.
This doesn't mean that I don't think the problem lies in the coaching. I think the Patriots are way better prepared on offense, and that would help this team a lot. I just don't think the players will play up to it on a consistent basis.
I agree with sfgfan here
With a slight improvement of the offense, you know, establish the ability to actually make first downs and establish drives, the defense would be better.
I would suspect that the offense would play better. They'd make less mistakes, run routes better. And maybe instead of trading for DJax or signing Lelie they'd get someone like a Welcker or Stallworth. As bad as our receivers have played this year, I suspect with better coaching even they'd do better.
by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 19, 2007 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
Great question
In reverse, the 49ers would have a serious chance to be not just 5-5, but maybe even 6-4 considering that they've lost some games to some bad teams (like the Rams yesterday). That's how much I truly believe Nolan is not utilizing his personel.
Alex Smith would be playing 100% better, that much I'm sure of. Belichick is such a freak about technique and mechanics that he'd be working his young QB late into the night until he got it down. Not to discredit Brady, but if you watch his early games vs. the last few years, his mechanics have developed from good/decent to absolute perfection, and I'm sure Belichick and others (Weis) played a significant role in this.
I would say
Niners: 0-10
Patriots: 10-0
The Niners were lucky to win the first 2.
No amount of coaching is going to get that line to block.
Soooo....
by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2007 5:23 PM PST up reply actions

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