49ers Bring in "Consultant": Hey Jim, did ya get the memo?

by Fooch on Nov 20, 2007 7:24 PM PST in News Comment 41 comments

Oh indeed, the 49ers have brought in Ted Tollner to be a consultant for the rest of the season, with no word on anything beyond that. It was mentioned in the link dump for this week, but I thought it was worth fleshing out a little bit more. That, and as soon as I read about it, I knew an Office Space graphic was called for. The Bobs certainly are appropriate right about now.

Ted Tollner has quite a bit of experience working with offenses. I've included a less than stellar graphic that I can't make any bigger. For those who can't quite see everything, he's coached wide receivers, quarterbacks and tight ends, as well as being the Chargers OC from 1989-1991, the 49ers OC in 2004 and the Lions OC in 2005. While he learned the west coast offense under Steve Mariucci, he is more known as a proponent of the Don Coryell offensive system that Norv Turner used last year.

I don't have as good a historical perspective as I probably should so I did a little research into the Don Coryell system and for now have some basic info from Wikipedia, which you can check out here. and here If anybody can find better information on it definitely post it or a link in here. From what I've read, it was originally the West Coast offense before the name became more known with Bill Walsh's scheme.

Coryell's scheme came to be known as the "Air Coryell and is a system that places emphasis on timing and precision. As I'm typing this I just came across info on the system from 49ers Webzone after Norv Turner was hired by the 49ers in 2006:

The Air Coryell Offense has four basic principles. Stretch the field, protect the passer, confuse the defense, and run it down their throats. The offensive line is composed of the biggest, meanest group of guys you can find as to employ the power running game needed to pound away at defenses. The line generally blocks in a zone scheme, meaning they block and hit anyone that comes into a given player's zone. The offense is a passing offense though, and the wide receivers run intermediate to long-range routes. In order to give these routes time to develop, quarterback protection it at a premium...

Three wide-receiver sets are also a staple of this scheme. In fact, the three wide receiver set was a Coryell staple...Motion and shifting is used to confuse the defense.

Here's some additional information from a Chargers website, which compared there team last year to a new version of the Air Coryell system (I wonder what they thought when they brought in Norv Turner, a student of the system?):

Air Coryell was all about getting rid of the ball fast and keeping defenses on their heels. Every play had a man going deep...Teams had to expect a pass on every down, which opened up lanes for Chuck Muncie on the ground...

So what does all this mean? Well the hell if I know, to be perfectly honest with you. While the 49ers weren't blowing people away with their offense last year, we all are pining for those days based on current production. So it will be interesting to see how Tollner is utilized in the coming weeks. Jim Hostler received the dreaded vote of confidence, which of course always comes when people have the least amount of confidence in you.

There is no word yet on what this means after the current season. It'd be nice to have Smith working with Tollner, but that doesn't seem too likely now (I don't even want to start on that topic yet). So for now, maybe this can help create a spark.

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Ted Tollner really loves Michael Bolton

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 20, 2007 8:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

That no talent ass-clown!

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Nov 20, 2007 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tollner

As any other SDSU alum from the late 1990's can tell you. Ted Tollner is not a Mike Holmgren/Mike Shanahan offensive guru. If he turns out to be a less effective Marty Mornhinweg, it'll be a success.

by frankthetank on Nov 20, 2007 8:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Anything's better than nothing

I hope an outsider can help here.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 20, 2007 8:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tollner

Well at least they thought outside the box and got a guy with experience....at being as Vanilla as Hostler.... bringing back the O.C. that helped lead an outstandingly bad 49er team to a 2-14 season. Does anyone know the Lion or Charger records when this guy was in there town's?

by NinerInLA on Nov 20, 2007 9:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

When Tollner was with the Lions

he got Marriucci fired.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 21, 2007 6:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In all honesty...

... Mooch tends to get himself fired from everywhere he goes. It's just what comes with his head coach package. He may be a better coordinator, though.

by sfgfan on Nov 21, 2007 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Principles?

Reading those four basic principles of the Air Coyelle system it dawned on me that the 49er's can't do any of these things.....not with the o-line and receiver's we got.

by NinerInLA on Nov 20, 2007 9:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

So...

What is it exactly that you do here?

by BawLa on Nov 20, 2007 9:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ruining the reference party!

I make jokes and defend Mike Nolan and Alex Smith both.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2007 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I already told you

I deal with the god damn offense so the head coach doesn't have to. I have play-calling skills; I am good at dealing with play-calling. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!?

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 21, 2007 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We're gonna need you to come in on Sunday...

Tollner is nothing more than a familiar face for Smith, who I think will have surgery and be done for the year. I'm not entirely sure I know what to make of this. If Tollner is the messiah, we're in DEEP trouble. Here are my ideas:

Hire Dennis Green to be GM in the offseason. I know may of you know Green the coach but Green the GM is an entirely different situation. The guy built a very good offensive team in Minnesota and a pretty good one in Arizona. He hasn't proven to be a very good coach, but he knows how to draft offensive talent.
Try to hire Jason Garrett as Head coach. I'm not going to try to rationalize this too much. I have no idea if he'll be a good head coach, but it would piss off the Cowboys and I hate the Cowboys.
Make Singletary the Defensive Coordinator. Keeps some continuity within the team. Keeps Patrick Willis happy. The name alone demands respect.
Draft Colt Brennan. He may be another Joey Harrington but I think we need to at least create some competition at the QB spot. Brennan competes...period. I saw him put his body on the line against SJSU. That's all I needed to see. I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him(save it for Limus Sweed), but if he's there in the 3rd, I'd grab him.

Agree? Disagree?

by applejack on Nov 20, 2007 10:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Generally Disagree

Dennis Green built very good offenses, but has no concept of healthy foundation and structure. He ignores offensive line and stockpiles at positions that already have depth. Furthermore, he has no idea how to put a defense together. Furtherfurthermore, I have very few problems with the job that Nolan and Mcloughlan have done bringing in players. I can't name a single acquisition the team has made in FA, trade, and teh draft that I don't agree with that doesn't involve a HEAVY dose of retrospect. Furthermore, the drafts have been FANTASTIC in this regime, and the FA signings have been generally shrewd if not mind-blowing.
I won't bother going into why I disagree (just know it would be a brilliant anti-reactionary rant similar to ones I have made elsewhere) because you just want this for a laugh. I do disagree, but I can go along with the laugh. Plus my name is Garrett. So that's cool.
Why would Singletary accept a demotion? Furthermore, Manusky has done a pretty fantastic job with the defense, and Nolan never hesitates to step in when needed.
I'd be fine with Brennan. He's very much the kind of QB I'm looking to land in the draft. A guy with an honest shot at taking Smith's place without dooming Smith simply by being drafted.

That is all.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 20, 2007 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He just wants to look at boys' limuses...

Man, I miss Arrested Development...

So this doens't look like just an OT comment, I'd seen someone else make the point that Bill Walsh typically had a pretty good idea where guys would fit in, and had the tendency to get great value from picks in the later rounds. It's an interesting point, and I personally don't remember any great picks that have come from rounds 4-7 of the draft during the Nolan era. Still, I totally agree, he's done a fantastic job get getting players, particularly in the draft.

Also agree that Manusky seems to have done as good a job with the defense as one can do when your defensive unit has to spend the majority of the game on the field.

I needed the Niners to be good to make up for the fact that the Giants just sucked!

by Drunken Miller on Nov 21, 2007 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It does what is most important

which would be to move out Nolan.

Denise says in the papers this a.m. that she wants to bring in a general manager to oversee Nolan. I don't know if he'll chafe at this, or if this move is Denise getting ready to kick Nolan in the can and out the door.

I get the feeling that Garrett is wedded to the Cowboys. He'll probably get the reins there in a few years, so while he may be intriguing, he's probably not available.

+++

On other fronts, looks like Alex is going to be shut down for at least two weeks. If we're two and ten by then is there any point in bringing him back?

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 21, 2007 6:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In all fairness...

... Dennis Green didn't build the offense that is currently in Arizona. Two thirds of the elite WRs down there were drafted before he was hired as a head coach (one of which was offensive rookie of the year in 2003).

In Minnesota, as HTS pointed out, he ignored the offensive line, never had a really elite RB and just lacked a solid structure/foundation overall.

by sfgfan on Nov 21, 2007 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

In Arizona, he continued to ignore the offensive line and running backs. Until they signed James (who they overpaid for in desperation), they lacked a RB who could carry a load for any NFL team. The offensive line was also among the weakest in the league.

by sfgfan on Nov 21, 2007 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tollner?

That's the worst idea I've ever heard in my life, Tom.

Yes, this is horrible, this idea.

Ummm. Doesn't Tollner suck? I mean, sure, I like the idea of bringing in a consultant to help the offense but really, Tollner? We can't do better than him? Oh man, if we're hiring Tollner to help Hostler, that just confirms that Hostler is completely useless. Oh man, we SUCK.

Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 21, 2007 9:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Funny stuff:

"Air Coryell" = get rid of the ball quickly AND long routes + maximum pass protect.

And LOLs at the OL being the key.

by zenbitz on Nov 21, 2007 9:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hey Ted, watch your cornhole man...

What the hell is going on?

Clearly we are out of the playoff picture.

The season is obviously a bust.

No one seems to have had an answer to our offensive woes all season. Now, perhaps 9 weeks too late, someone decides to bring in a consultant.WTF.

Are the Yorks delibrately trying to drive this Niner fan away?

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 21, 2007 10:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Who said...

... Tollner is the "answer" to the offensive woes of the team? It's an attempt at an answer, which is all any fan can ask for of their team. If Tollner helps at all, it should make 49ers fans who are bitter about the Patriots getting the pick a little happier, though.

Even if Tollner succeeds in helping Hostler "fix" this offense, there is little doubt in my mind that Nolan will still have an offensive coordinator search this offseason.

by sfgfan on Nov 21, 2007 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re. Who said

Your good. I really need watch what I write. Seems like I always leave myself open for someone to come in a kill my argument.

I guess what I wrote kind of implied that Tollner was an answer, albiet an incorrect answer, more than likely. That isn't what I meant though.

My main issue is why do this now? And why Hollner he has experience but does this guy have any clout?

My knowledge of the NFL is not that comprehensive. But I have followed the game for some time and I have never heard of the guy.

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 21, 2007 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My attempt at answers

I think it took this long because of two reasons: 1) it takes a long time to decide if any one of a bunch of crap options is going to help, and 2) You want to take as long as you can before throwing the towel at any team coach, and this is essentially a move that throws the towel at Hostler.

I think it's Tollner because he is probably the best choice out of a bunch of crap options. We're still in the middle of the season so everybody who might be actually attractive is likely already working somewhere.

I'm just glad that we're doing something, and that it's still more or less designed to keep Smith in the same type of offense we threw at him last year. I'm sure when the offseason comes around we'll see much more exciting things happen with the offensive coaches.

Though I wouldn't be surprised to see Hostler take back the QB coach job in '08. He wasn't doing half bad there.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 21, 2007 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re. My attempt...

It is nice to see that they are at least trying to do something. But it is too late. And it seems to me that they are just trying to appease fans, trying to keep dollars from going in another direction.

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 21, 2007 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It could be dollars, or it could be...

It could also be that the team actually wants to win games? It's not that crazy of an idea, really.

Even with the season seemingly in the toilet last season, the 49ers pulled it together to a 7-9 record. Had they won two games they SHOULD have won in the final four weeks (I think it was), they would have been 9-7 and a possible playoff team. That late-season push gave so many players confidence this season, that they themselves not only said they would win the division, but actually believed they could.

So why is this season any different? Every little bit of momentum counts at the end of the season. You could either run away with your collective tails between your legs or you can man up and try to finish strong. Fans look at the record of a losing team and hope they continue to lose, as it only grants them a higher draft pick. Even if team management saw things this way (i.e. throwing in the towel or tanking it in hopes of getting the #1 pick), the 49ers don't have that. If they don't get to control their own draft pick, you might as well try to win some games right?

by sfgfan on Nov 21, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re. It could be...

The team was so confident from last year's finish that it lead them to a 3 point win over the Cards and a 1 point win over the Rams. Don't think so. Pure luck is what won those games. And as far as last year goes, we beat the Hawks twice and that did not exactly help us out this year.

I agree completely about trying to win games. But it is too late for this team to man up. We could not beat the lowly Falcons or Rams. Now all the sudden, their going to man up, I would hope so, but I don't think so.

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 21, 2007 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no...

I'm not saying confidence helps teams win games. What it does do is provide the players hope through the long offseason. I mean think about it, if you were going to be sitting around for 5 or 6 months during the offseason training to get better next year, wouldn't it make you feel a little easier to know that your team is indeed headed in the right direction?

Or even moreover, if the 49ers turn the ship around and win some games to close out the season, it could make the team more attractive to free agents. We all know how much good free agents LOOOOVE to go to losing teams, or how much they're willing to "try" for their new team.

There is this saying, "every day is a new day." So what if the team is where it is right now. If they can play solidly through the rest of the season, you're not going to admit that the team of the second half is drastically different from the team in the first half? As a fan, I'm down on this team, sure. But I still want them to win on any given Sunday, no matter how unrealistic or realistic it could be, or how many games they've won up to that point.

by sfgfan on Nov 21, 2007 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re. Oh no

Once again I have failed to see the big picture. You are like that guy in those FatHead commercials, the guy with a really big camera, you see all or at least more than I see, I am guessing 70%-30% cheetah.

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 22, 2007 5:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re. Oh no

Almost forgot, you make a really good point about making the team more attractive to free agents.

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 22, 2007 5:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

... I should develop some physical abilities and send my resume over to the 49ers. They do need a QB, no?

by sfgfan on Nov 22, 2007 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agent

If you happen to need an agent, I am your man.

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 23, 2007 6:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I obviously disagree that it is too late. Like I said, you want to take as much time as you can before throwing the towel at any given coach on a team when the season is going. I think Hostler got as much rope as he deserved, followed by however many weeks it took to convince Tollner to come on board.

Because I seriously doubt the conversation went like this:

Nolan: Hey Ted, we need help on offense.
Tollner: I'm on my way!

I don't think we should really treat these things like they take hours to put together.

I keep reliving the moment when Steve Young almost fell down. Over and over. / My Blog, For Writers

by howtheyscored on Nov 21, 2007 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re. well

That is too funny.

Hostler the Horrible

by jfainsf49 on Nov 22, 2007 5:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't believe what a bunch of nerds we are.

We're looking up "offensive game plan" in the dictionary.

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 21, 2007 11:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

good one

Bring back the classic Uni's!

by wjackalope on Nov 21, 2007 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Coordinator help or not...

I doubt the 49ers will be showing anyone their O face...

by jaytierney on Nov 21, 2007 11:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

"Illegal contact?"

"Samir, this is America!"

Lott's Prayer: Almost as many words as the Lord's Prayer, but the Lord wouldn't recognize any of them.

by Nosetackle Supreme on Nov 21, 2007 4:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

"This isn't Riyadh...

They're not gonna chop your hand off!"

Niners Nation - The premier 49ers blog on the Internet!

by Fooch on Nov 21, 2007 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do I feel hopeful tonight?

As unhappy as I've been with the Niners and Nolan this year, he's put together a good defense. He's lost a couple of players (Lawson and that rookie D lineman) who could have pushed things even further along. In fact, think of how bad things would have been if the defense hadn't been so good. And this is a defense that spends two-thirds of the game on the field.

I have no illusions for the rest of the season, but I would hope that Tollner can help loosen up the offense and maybe push Nolan a little further away from it.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 21, 2007 9:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Look at the bright side

Maybe Tollner will have the spark that turns this offense around or maybe he won't. I'm just glad they did what needed to be done to help Jim out for the rest of the season, Hostler must know that he won't be a coach with the Niner's next season so he shouldn't feel threatened by Tollner. Maybe with some of the pressure off his back Hostler can actually focus and "Coordinate" the team down-field. Hopefully this will inspire better play from the team and some wins. They might not see the playoff's but it would be nice to see the season end with a decent record.(decent in regards to the past few years)

by NinerInLA on Nov 21, 2007 11:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not sure about getting a GM

Denise's talk about getting a GM earlier in the week was good in that she wanted to shake up things, but that's not Nolan's weakness. It's the offense. There's something in the offensive talent assembled, but it's mostly the offense. Hopefully Tollner can spot some obvious things. Think if two of Dilfer's "should've been TD" passes last week were caught by the receivers. Suppose over the last two months half of those 3rd and ones were converted, either by better blocking, better blocking schemes, or just better play-calling.

As miserable as the team has been offensively, a few changes could make things better.

by Bob In Pacifica on Nov 22, 2007 7:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs