Niners Nation Scouting Report: Jarvis Moss
by Fooch on Mar 12, 2007 10:41 AM PDT
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A name that has popped in recent diaries has been that of Jarvis Moss, defensive end for the national champion Florida Gators. I've noticed a lot of mock drafts have the Steelers taking him at 15. Moss would be drastically undersized as NFL defensive lineman, but would be a perfect fit to develop into a top notch outside linebacker in the 3-4. With that in mind, I spoke with Mark over at Swamp Ball and he agreed to put together a scouting report on Jarvis Moss.
Jarvis Moss
Defensive End
6'6, 250 lbs
2006 Stats
13 Games | 56 Tackles | 11 TFL | 7.5 Sacks | 4 FF
Career Stats
26 Games | 85 Tackles | 20 TFL | 15 Sacks | 5 FF
Moss could be considered a "tweener" as the draftniks call them, as he could be looked at as either a defensive end or perhaps an OLB in a 3-4 set defense.
Strengths
Moss' biggest asset is his size, as he uses his tall, lengthy frame and his extremely long arms to take up quite a bit of space wherever he is at on the field.
With that size comes gifted athletic skill, as his 4.7 speed gives him an advantage around the end, something that is vital to his pass-rushing abilities. In several instances in college Moss was able to get around the end just with his explosive speed at the snap, something that became a huge problem for opposing defenses in 2006.
His quarterback pursuit skills are very good because of his bursts of speed and his ability to change direction quickly. Once he gets around the corner, his speed and size make him a tough defender to avoid. Quarterbacks always seemed to have trouble slipping an inpending Moss sack, something that is one of his strengths.
Moss also showed ability to play back in zone blitz coverages, something that is not indicated by his interception numbers (he had 0 in 2006). With his big frame and athleticism, this could be a good asset to have if used as an OLB.
Also with his long arms Moss can be a pain for the opposition on special teams, as he has shown that he has the ability to get up and block field goals. While his vertical was nothing to be in awe of (30 1/2), he makes up for that with his length when he jumps in the air.
Weaknesses
One knock on Moss was that he only used his speed at the snap to get to the quarterback in his college career, something that NFL teams may be concerned about. One thing that he will need to improve upon is his moves on the defensive line to shed big offensive linemen in the pros if he can't get around the corner quickly.
This will come with time, as he may not have the strength needed to automatically become an excellent pass-rusher from the beginning. At the combine he did not do too well on the bench, only getting 16 (lowest in his combine group), so shedding blockers with his physical strength should be considered a weakness coming into the NFL.
Moss did have injury problems at Florida, having a staph infection in his pelvis region -- something looked at as possibly career-threatening -- that kept him out for quite some time. This does not look like it will be a future problem for Moss, as doctors have determined there is no longer anything wrong.
Moss does not have any character issues outside of one positive testing for marijuana he received this season at Florida, which caused a one-game suspension for the defensive end. Outside of that one occasion there were no other issues that were openly discussed.
Thoughts on the Future
Jarvis Moss could make a fine NFL player, especially if he gains some strength on a pro conditioning plan and improves on the technical skills needed to be a good pass-rusher at the pro level.
In terms of his weight, he is only two years removed from losing a lot of it following a serious staph infection that threatened his career. As time goes on I could see him filling out a little more (if he really needs to) depending on what his pro squad wants from him. His past injury should not be a problem, neither short-term nor long-term, so that shouldn't be taken into account by teams who are looking to draft him.
In my opinion Moss would make the biggest impact early on as a pass-rushing OLB. His speed and ability to get up in a quarterback's face with his long arms will be a huge asset at the pro level, something I think he could do better as a linebacker. I also think that he could make a suitable OLB with his knowledge of dropping into zone coverage.
But for depth purposes, of course, I feel you could plug Moss in just as easily as a defensive end and he could make an impact there as well.
Whoever drafts Jarvis Moss will get a guy who could become an impact pass-rusher early on in his career, as well as the type of guy who could drop back into coverage pretty well. If he improves a few small glitches in his game, he could be one of the better defensive players in this draft, easily.
I want to thank Mark from Swamp Ball again for taking the time to put this together. Moss seems to be a raw talent with a lot of potential and would make a very intriguing option at 11.
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Lawson
by methodrampage on Mar 12, 2007 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A couple of reservations.
Another potential difference is that Lawson supposedly scored a 43 on the Wonderlic (which is one of the highest scores ever recorded for a defensive player). Now, I know that the Wonderlic doesn't translate into on-the-field performance, but it does have to say something about a player's ability to accumulate (and retain) information. I am sure Lawson's high Wonderlic was one of the convincing factors in Nolan and Co.'s decision to take him last season, knowing full well he would be a "project 'tweener". I don't know what Moss' score was/is, but this could be a potential difference nevertheless.
Another point of interest that should draw many people's attention is that most scouts believe Moss has no position. This assessment, if it were a reality, is like a double-edge sword. He could turn out to be like Julian Peterson or Adalius Thomas (who we all hope Manny Lawson could be, at least remotely close), or they could end up going the way of "good backup, but not starter-quality".
I'm not writing the guy off, as I think he could be an interesting selection at #11. If he and Manny teamed up and formed a feared outside tandem that could get after the quarterback AND drop back in man-to-man coverage, then that would be great. The key is that you'd like for at least one of your OLB's to be able to play man-to-man on a TE or RB. You can't have a front seven with three "pluggers", two "rushers" and then only two left to play man/zone. This is especially true if one of them is Derek Smith, who while can still be very effective, may not be a good coverage linebacker for any team.
by sfgfan on Mar 12, 2007 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No position
A 3-4 with 3 "pluggers" and 2 "rushers" is basically the same concept of a blitz in a 4-3. And if you're blitz/rushers are good enough then you won't hurt too much with only 2 left to play coverage. However in this scenario you need you're ILB to be pretty quick and have solid coverage skills.
That brings me to my next point/question. In the 3-4, if the NT is bigger than you're typical 4-3 DT and the 3-4 DE is bigger than you're typical 4-3 DE and your 3-4 OLB are bigger than your typical 4-3 OLB wouldn't that allow you to have some smaller/faster 3-4 ILB than your typical 4-3 ILB? Basically with your OLB getting bigger in the 3-4 wouldn't this allow your ILB to get smaller and faster? At least this would be my preference from my understanding of the scheme.
by methodrampage on Mar 13, 2007 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It still depends...
A similar ideal could be placed on the ILBs. While you can perhaps sacrifice a little size for some quickness and speed, size may still play a factor. On inside rushing plays, three down linemen probably have a harder time filling the gaps, as the OL is attacking them (unlike passing plays). An ideal (to me) 3-4 ILB should be big/strong enough to also take on blockers inside as they kind of become 4-3 DL-men on runs to the inside. But that should be in addition to maintaining enough speed to eye and chase down HBs on sweeps and screens/swings.
In my opinion, having four starting LBs in the 240-255 range is completely fine, no matter what their orientation is. As long as they all have the ability to sniff out plays and have enough speed/technique to cover it, they should be fine.
by sfgfan on Mar 13, 2007 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't have everything
You're picking up size on your line to accomodate for you're lack of an extra lineman. This is why the NT is key for inside running plays. Typically, you'll have one of your LB's blitzing on almost every play unless you're content with only rushing 3, which for the most part is going to be less than diruptive. Let's say with a OLB blitzing; one of you're ILB basically becomes an OLB, the remaining ILB a MLB and your OLB stays a OLB. Therefore, at least one, both unless you want to tip off which side you're blitzing to, of your ILB needs to be pretty mobile.
I believe you're wrong in your assurtion that a ILB becomes 4-3 DL-men. You're DE are bigger and closer than 4-3 DL therefore it is their biggest duty to help shut down the run, I was under the impression that the DE's were 2 of your 3 "pluggers".
Basically a 3-4 is not a 4-3 with bigger bodies everywhere and minus the LB that replaces the DT. And a group of linebackers that all weighed 240-255lbs would be a rather HUGE linebacking corp. And for them to be running around like the 225-230lbs linebackers is a little much to ask.
by methodrampage on Mar 13, 2007 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
225-230...
I'm not saying everyone is Shawne Merriman. I am just saying that bigger guys, now-a-days, tend to be faster than they were before. Merriman isn't one of only a handful of linebackers that are sizeable (240-255) that can keep up with HBs and TEs. Maybe 255 is a stretch, but 240-250 is still a sizeable window.
Just look at this year's LB draft class. There are quite a few quick "bigger" guys. Patrick Willis is a prime example of the kind of LB I would envision for a 3-4, inside OR outside. He's no Merriman, but he's got enough brains and athletic ability to be a very good linebacker right out the gates.
If the 49ers took Willis, for example, their LB group has pretty good speed with Lawson, Moore, Smith, Banta-Cain, Haralson, and Willis. All of those guys are closer to 240-250 than they are to 225-230. I mean, Smith is no world-beater, but you can count on him to almost always be in on a play.
I'm not saying everyone's ideal should be like mine, but this is how I would construct my team. And I'm not saying my theory is explained as simply as a 3-4 is just "a 4-3 with bigger bodies everyone minus a LB that replaces a DT". I'm not saying a ILB becomes a 4-3 DL-man. During ANY running play, at least one of the linebackers in a 3-4 will become a 4-3 lineman. On runs to the inside, chances are, it'll be a ILB. On runs to the outside, one of the OLBs will have to seal off the edge, just like a 4-3 DE.
The 3-4 is designed to focus on the linebackers. Having four linebackers similar in ability (which is what I'm suggesting) allows for more deception and "masking" of your scheme during the pre-snap. This is just my ideal, and of course you're entitled to your own. I'm not saying your way is wrong either, as it can make sense. I'm just saying that it's not what I would do.
by sfgfan on Mar 14, 2007 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize what you're saying
Lets look at the Pro-Bowl linebackers and their size:
Zach Thomas 228lbs
Bart Scott 240lbs
Al Wilson 240lbs
Lofa Tatupu 238lbs
Antonio Pierce 238lbs
Lance Briggs 240lbs
Derrick Brooks 235lbs
I left off some OLB because they are monster 3-4 OLB and this debate is about 3-4 ILB because I agree you need (2) beasts of a OLB for a 3-4. I think this proves that an 250lbs ILB is huge, none of these guys break 240lbs.
And some I'd love to have Jonathan Vilma (230lbs) or Ian Gold (223lbs) on my team.
So basically while I agree having 4 LBs that are 240+lbs is ideal it may not be totally feasible. And I think that having two monster on the outside would allow you the luxury to have two smaller quicker ILBs. But I guess the only way for us to prove our opinions is for us to start coaching Pee-wee football and prove it on the field but good luck finding 4 250lbs 5th graders.
by methodrampage on Mar 14, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we're in agreement...
This is the reason why this blog beats out the other 49ers blogs I see: the participants here are knowledgable. Discussion is often on the more intelligent side of things, and thats great.
You'd have to admit though, Vilma and Gold both play (and look) like they're bigger than their "paper" weights read.
by sfgfan on Mar 14, 2007 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gold
by methodrampage on Mar 14, 2007 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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