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49ers 53-man roster

While I was hanging around at training camp, I had a bit of free time.  I still have a copy of the 49ers preseason roster from the first practice and so I used that to jot down some of my ideas about the regular season roster.

I started by putting together a list, by position, of the stone-cold locks and anybody else that was pretty much a guarantee to make the team.  Here's that list:

QB - Alex Smith, Trent Dilfer, Shaun Hill (Getsy has a chance, but not really).
RB/FB - Frank Gore, Maurice Hicks, Michael Robinson, Thomas Clayton, Moran Norris
WR - Darrell Jackson, Arnaz Battle, Ashley Lelie, Jason Hill, Brandon Williams
TE - Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker
T - Jonas Jennings, Kwame Harris, Adam Snyder, Joe Staley
G - Larry Allen, Tony Wragge, Justin Smiley
C - Eric Heitmann, David Baas
DE - Bryant Young, Marques Douglas, Sam Rayburn, Ray McDonald
DT - Aubrayo Franklin, Isaac Sopoaga, Joe Cohen, Ronald Fields
OLB - Manny Lawson, Tully Banta-Cain, Jay Moore
ILB - Brandon Moore, Patrick Willis, Derek Smith, Jeff Ulbrich
CB - Nate Clements, Walt Harris, Shawntae Spencer, Tarell Brown
S - Michael Lewis, Mark Roman, Keith Lewis, Dashon Goldson
Special Teams - Andy Lee, Joe Nedney, Brian Jennings (long-snapper)

Offense: 24
Defense: 23
Special Teams: 3
TOTAL: 50

There are probably a couple guys I included that are not on your initial lists.  I went with guys who I think the coaching staff like (Delanie Walker), guys who have some history with the team (Shaun Hill) and general areas of need like the defensive line.

Now comes the hard part.  It's not too difficult to predict a Patrick Willis or Alex Smith will make the roster.  The difficult part is deciding who will fill in the remaining holes.  A team has a 53-man roster but only has 45 active players (not including the 3rd string, injury replacement quarterback).  I went through the rest of the preseason roster and came up with guys I see as sitting on the bubble, whether it be close to the roster or clearly on the wrong side of the bubble.

BUBBLE
RB/FB - Zak Keasey
WR - Bryan Gilmore, Taylor Jacobs, Marcus Maxwell, Dominique Ziegler
TE - Zack Hilton, Billy Bajema
T - Patrick Estes, Harvey Dahl, Tavares Washington
DE - John Syptak
OLB - Roderick Green, Parys Haralson
ILB - Hannibal Navies, Colby Bockwoldt
CB - Marcus Hudson
S - Donald Strickland, Vickiel Vaughn

So if you had to choose 3 guys based on need, ability and a players general awesomeness, who would it be.  In fact, let's break it down into two questions:  Who would you like to be the last 3 and who do you think will actually be the last 3?

Who I want: Marcus Maxwell, Zack Hilton and Parys Haralson
Why? Well, NFL Europe sold me on Maxwell, even though I think he ends up hooking on somewhere else.  Zack Hilton is one hell of a big dude and while he may struggle with the blocking, I'm a sucker for a nice pass-catching tight end who could join Vernon Davis in making matchup nightmares.  As for Parys, he impressed me last season before going down with and injury and I'd like to see him get another crack at the team.

Who I think: Taylor Jacobs, Billy Bajema, and Roderick Green
Why? Well I see these specific positions being filled because we'll need a 6th receiver, the team always carries the third tight end and with the 3-4 in full effect, we'll need all the linebackers we can find.
I just have a funny feeling about Jacobs.  He's been having a solid camp and I could see WR coach Jerry Sullivan being swayed by Jacobs underperforming talent.  Bajema is an old standby, which should help his case.  Roderick Green is a former Raven and while Nolan wants the best talent, I could see loyalty factoring in a little bit.

While you want quality performances from your entire roster, if we're heavily relying on the last 3 guys, something has definitely gonna wrong.  At the very least it will make for an interesting camp and give you a couple extra reasons to watch preseason games.  So feel free to throw out your own thoughts, whether they be your 3 guys or criticisms of the initial fifty players.

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Practice squad
There is of course also the practice squad, although I'm still familiarizing myself with who would be eligible.  According to the NFL Players Association website:
PRACTICE SQUADS

On Sunday, September 2, 2007, the day after the final pre-season cutdowns, each club may establish a Practice Squad of no more than eight (8) players who are free agents and who do not have more than nine games on an Active list in a previous season. The minimum salary for a practice squad player is $4,700 per week, including the playoff weeks. In addition, a player under contract to a club as a Practice Squad player is completely free to sign a contract with any NFL club to play on their Active/Inactive list.

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by Fooch on Aug 7, 2007 9:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

PS
Two guys that should be PS eligible and will likely go there if they are: Getsy and Duckett.  I think Duckett may be eligible because he's changing positions, drastically.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well
I think Maxwell and Haralson would get it, but I don't know about the last spot. Need to loook at the roster some more. Haralson b/c he's been here before and Maxwell because of his performance in the Euro Bowl.
Merton Hanks forever and ever.

by jtoj on Aug 7, 2007 9:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

my pics
i think haralson should be sort of a shoe in, he was a kind of high pick wasnt he, like 4th round or something, and was hurt but looked good in training camp last year

hilton has look good in practice and was good for the saints last year, he could be a good #2 TE and a big red zone threat

the last i give to maxwell, or any of the tackles who can play guard, we seem shallow at that position

by Vote4Gore on Aug 7, 2007 10:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hilton?
Hilton didn't play for the Saints last year.  He was on the Jets and didn't record a catch.  He's got to be the 4th TE on the team and I really don't see the Niners carrying 4 TE.  Bajema is legitimate blocking TE and Walker is more talented than Hilton.

I'd much rather see the Niners add another DL or acquire a decent backup RB, LaBrandon Toefield anyone?

I've got to think Bajema and Haralson will get the nod.  And my last spot goes to adding a DL, probably somebody that gets cut from another team.

by methodrampage on Aug 7, 2007 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Toefield
I could certainly see the value of another running back, but with Gore, Hicks, Robinson, Clayton and Norris, I wonder if another RB would be too many considering needs at other positions.
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by Fooch on Aug 7, 2007 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Toefield = End of Hicks
Toefield would be an upgrade over Hicks would allow you to keep The Experiment (Robinson)around for another year and Hicks would become expendable.  So you wouldn't be losing a roster spot than could be used on another need.

by methodrampage on Aug 7, 2007 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hicks
One plus in Hicks's favor is that he finished 12th in kick return yards.  He didn't take any to the house, but he was definitely solid there....Although we certainly have guys who could fill that void if we brought in a guy like LaBrandon Toefield.
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by Fooch on Aug 7, 2007 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hicks
he was a solid returner but battle and Williams could handle it, whichever of the two is a better running back should be a higher quality, but i think clayton will be the number 2 back, so i guess if hicks can be an above average returner than he gets the nod

by Vote4Gore on Aug 7, 2007 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my bad
he played for the saints in 2005 and had 35 receptions and 396 yards in 6 games, which wasnt bad

by Vote4Gore on Aug 7, 2007 10:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts
QB I'm pretty much in agreement with you here.  Hill gets the third QB spot only because Getsy was previously passed on and is also practice squad eligible. (Smith/Dilfer/Hill)

HB It'd be odd if the team carried that many running backs, halfbacks to be exact.  Hostler believes that Robinson could easily step in at FB if Norris needs a breather (or is hurt).  I see the 49ers going with 3HB and 1FB.  By cutting out a HB, it allows the team to stack up a little more on the defensive front seven.  If anything, Nolan has had nothing but love for Zak Keasey lately, so the team could go with 3HB, 2FB. (Gore/Robinson/Clayton/Norris)

WR Nolan recently stated he'll go with anywhere between 4 to 6 WRs.  If he goes with six, it'll be because he feels he can't cut Jacobs.  Even with Maxwell's strong NFLE showing, it'll be tough for him to crack the roster. (Jackson/Battle/Lelie/Hill/Williams/Jacobs)

TE The third TE spot is Bajema's to lose.  His blocking, if it's anywhere near advertised, is a true asset to this team.  It'd bring more to the table than anything Hilton could bring. (Davis/Walker/Bajema)

T I pretty much agree with your list here except Snyder is working at guard so far in camp (if I'm not mistaken).  That leaves a tackle spot open for Estes, finally. (Jennings/Staley/Harris/Estes)

G Throw Snyder into this list, and it's pretty much set.  (Allen/Smiley/Snyder/Wragge)

C Agreed. (Heitmann/Baas)

DE Add Fields to this list, as he's expected to start at RE.  (Young/Fields/Douglas/McDonald/Rayburn)

NT With fields omitted, I think three is about right.  (Franklin/Sopoaga/Cohen)

OLB I think both Green and Haralson make it.  (Lawson/Banta-Cain/J.Moore/Green/Haralson)

ILB Agreed.  (B.Moore/Willis/D.Smith/J.Ulbrich)

CB With the injury "history" of Spencer, the team will keep at least 5 CBs on the roster, so Hudson is included.  (Clements/Harris/Spencer/Hudson/Brown)

S Basically agree with you. (Roman/M.Lewis/K.Lewis/Goldson)

Special Teams Yep.  (Lee/Nedney/Jennings)

Offense: 26
Defense: 26
Special Teams: 3
Total: 55

Teams can keep up to 55 players, so I went with that.  If I were to cut any two of the players I included above, it would be Taylor Jacobs and Roderick Green.  Both are on the older side.  Green would just be blocking the playtime of a younger player (Haralson) and Jacobs is pretty expendable (solid camp or not).

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 9:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

55?
It says over at the NFLPA that you have to cutdown to 53...where are the other 2 allowed?
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by Fooch on Aug 8, 2007 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My mistake
I must have read some dated (read: wrong) information.  I'll take those two cuts I proposed, then.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Darnell Bing
the niners did sign darnell bing to be a fourth safety so goldson could play cb, and allowing hudson to go somewhere far far away, so that might be a better option

also isnt baas a center and guard? versatility is usefull there

by Vote4Gore on Aug 8, 2007 10:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hudson vs. Goldson
I think Hudson is a better CB than Goldson.  They're both above-average physically for a corner, but Hudson has the speed to match (and Goldson is slow, like 4.69 40 slow).  The only WR that Goldson can cover foot for foot is Dwayne Jarrett!

Goldson is best left at FS.  Bing is now learning to play safety at the NFL level after spending his vital first year learning to play linebacker, so he and Goldson are sort of on and even playing field.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but hudson
hudson was awful last year when spencer went down, maybe goldson isnt fast but as a 5th cb? he's probably fine, he would rarely be used there and if someone got hurt you could just sign someone to play for a few weeks, i like the idea of 5 safetys (lewis, lewis,roman, bing, goldson) and having goldson also serve as the 5th cb

by Vote4Gore on Aug 8, 2007 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

CBs
Tell me how many second day CBs are taken and get get thrown into the fire and do well?  Even first round picks struggle in their first year.  You talk about giving Michael Robinson time, but you're so quick to drop the axe on Hudson, who I think is more likely to be solid at his position than Robinson is.

Why in the world would you want five safeties?  This is especially true when you're playing a more "man" defense.  In a division with so many WRs (not just any WRs, but big and FAST), there is no way in hell safeties, especially a slow one like Goldson, can keep up with them.  Unless one of the safeties are really injury prone, four safeties is plenty.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

a 6th round pick
hudson was a 6th rounder, so i dont think hes a guy thats expected to contribute and i believe that in playing corner goldson can do better than him, i am saying the team would technically be carrying 5 safeties but really 4, goldson is bigger than hudson and more athletic, and when going up against guys like boldon and fitzgerald, they need all the athleticism they can get, hudson is small and isnt quick, he might be faster but he got burned several times last year

by Vote4Gore on Aug 8, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh huh.
It doesn't really matter what I say to you.  It's like you just don't understand a lot of basic arguments I am (and have) made here and in the Franklin diary.

You show plenty of knowledge by saying that Baas will be Allen's replacement, when it's been written pretty much since the beginning of the offseason that Snyder would step into LG when Allen is gone.  It has been written on many occasions that Baas will be Smiley's replacement, either if Smiley is traded (big if) or when his contract is up at the end of the year.  You also show an ability to confuse names/information when you confused Smiley and Snyder.

It's useless to discuss a point when you make remarks like "Hudson is small and isn't quick, he might be faster but he got burned several times last year", and then say a guy who runs a 4.69 40 will be a better replacement.  His shuttle time was 4.46, which is far from quick, and his cone drill time was 7.37, far from being very athletic/agile.  As for the size difference, they're 1 inch and less than 10 pounds a part, which isn't very much at all.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

your right in this case
hudson is a better corner than goldson, your right there, but neither of those guys will see much pt in the regular season so i think you keep the two most talented guys out of the three of goldson, bing and hudson, and i think hudson is the odd man out, and if one of the other two gets hurt, you could probably sign hudson any way

and with baas, i made a mistake, yes he will replace smiley, lg/rg whats the big diff, the point is hes going to start at some point in the near futrue

by Vote4Gore on Aug 8, 2007 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hudson > Goldson > Bing
You forget that Hudson was drafted AS a free safety.  He's solid in zone, but needs work on his man coverage.  He has the athletic ability to man-up and learn to play man.  He is also a hard-hitting player who loves to come up from the defensive backfield.

If you go by physical attributes, Hudson is the most talented.  Followed by Bing, who is faster, quicker, more agile, AND stronger than Goldson.  Goldson is by far the "runt" when it comes to physical gifts.

If you factor in current (and potential) skills at playing their positions, Hudson has a whole year on the other two.  Goldson and Bing both are now going to learn to adjust to the NFL at safety.  Goldson plays zones better than Bing, if I remember right.  If I remember Bing's scouting report correctly, he sounds a lot like Michael Lewis and Keith Lewis.  Safeties who love to be in the box and play the run well but lack skill in coverage.

So in the end, thats how you get my ranking:
Hudson > Goldson > Bing.

If you're truly keeping two of the three most "talented" (physically and skill-wise), Goldson and Hudson would get the call over Bing.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i dont know enough about hudson
i really dont know enough about hudson to make a decision, but i do know that darnell bing was quite a talent out of college and it shocked alot of people when he fell to day two

also do you know the rule on waivers, do we get a penalty for cutting someone?  if bing would cost us alot to cut, it might not be worth it, the raiders did have to pay the penalty for cutting him and he got a 450,000 signing bonus (which i believe factors into the penalty)

for the sake of backing up my arguement for bing (not against hudson or goldson) i got a few pieces on him

The sky is the limit with Darnell Bing. He has been a very good safety in college, despite the injuries. It's hard to imagine how good he would be at 100%. He looks a lot like Rodney Harrison with his ability to come up and really lay a lick on the opponent, but still make plays in coverage. If Bing were to declare this year, he's probably looking at being drafted anywhere in the 2nd or 3rd round. If he stays another season at USC, he could easily hear his name called in the Top 20 of the draft.

thats kinda old but shows that he has some physical tools

Some feel that because of his speed, he will make a better free safety in the NFL, but his closing and hitting abilities lend him better to the strong safety spot, especially with his occasional problems in coverage. He has the potential to be a top-15 pick in the draft if he could stay healthy for a year, and will be an instant upgrade to the safety position for many teams.

seems like the biggest complaint is injury history, but if hes cheap, he could be very good in the future

by Vote4Gore on Aug 8, 2007 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bing
I believe the Raiders were trying to move Bing to LB as I think his coverage skills are less than ideal for a safety.  I think safety pass coverage is one of the weakest spots in the defense.  As both Lewis' play the run a hell of a lot better than they do the pass, as does Bing.  Bing, if healthy might be better than The Murder Keith Lewis but I don't see him bringing anything to the table that Michael Lewis doesn't.

by methodrampage on Aug 8, 2007 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cuts
It doesn't cost the team a thing if no signing bonus was originally exchanged.  All they owe the one being cut is any money for practices he hadn't been paid yet.

So to make a long story short, cutting Bing shouldn't hurt the 49ers salary standing.  Even the $450K the Raiders owe him won't hinder their salary cap by much either.  Hudson had a small signing bonus, and I imagine the Goldson will as well.

I really like Bing coming out of college as well.  Physically, he's got it all.  It just sounds like his mental (or coverage) skills lack while his tackling skills excelled.  It might be why the Raiders moved him to LB.  That uncertainty in his pass-coverage experience may also be why he fell so far in the draft.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

goldson a shoe in
i think goldson shouldnt really be part of this discussion (i know i brought him into it, my bad) because he's a shoe in toe make the team in my mind, he was a 4th rounder, which tends to mean they make the team at least.

i believe the debate could be between bing and hudson, at which point i think it would come to nolans preference, i think bing has more overall talent, but is lower in cover ability

by Vote4Gore on Aug 8, 2007 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nolan's preference.
I think if it came down to that, he'll go with the guy he drafted, and not a guy he passed on multiple times.

by sfgfan on Aug 8, 2007 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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